Digital IMAX vs Regular 4K

[Poya]

Out of these two formats, which one provides the better visual experience?

[Canada]

Obviously IMAX.

4096×2160 : 4K Digital Cinema
10,000x7000 IMAX, including IMAX HD and OMNIMAX: approximately 10,000×7000 (7000 lines) resolution.

[BaerGriggs]

Digital IMAX is different than regular IMAX though, isn't it?; it's just two 2K images projected together to make one image.

[Canada]

Originally Posted by BaerGriggs

Digital IMAX is different than regular IMAX though, isn't it?; it's just two 2K images projected together to make one image.

Your right. Because 70mm film and projectors are costly and difficult to mass produce, IMAX debuted a digital projection system in 2008. It uses two projectors that can present either 2D or 3D content in DCI or IMAX Digital Format (IDF) (which in itself is a superset of DCI). As of 2012, IDF uses 2K-resolution Christie projectors with Texas Instruments' Digital Light Processing (DLP) technology alongside parts of IMAX's proprietary formats. The two 2K images are projected over each other to make the image brighter.
The digital installations have caused some controversy, as many theaters have branded their screens as IMAX after merely retrofitting standard auditoriums with IMAX digital projectors. The screen sizes in these auditoriums are much smaller than those in the purpose-built auditoriums of the original 15/70 IMAX format. These theaters charge the same premium pricing as the purpose-built IMAX theaters, resulting in consumer confusion.

[BaerGriggs]

So wouldn't regular 4K be better than digital IMAX in that case?

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by BaerGriggs

So wouldn't regular 4K be better than digital IMAX in that case?

Arguably. Digital IMAX does have the benefit of increased brightness for 3D versus a single lamp 4k projector. Digital IMAX uses two proprietary 2k Christie projectors that are aligned with overlapping images, this is supposed to reduce the visible pixel grid or inter-pixel gap. I'm not sure if IMAX feeds each projector slightly different image data from a special 4K DCP in this instance or not, and that may possibly depend on the picture being shown at that time. So I can't say if digital IMAX 2k + 2k can really compete with native 4k. My inclination is to say "no".

[THXGuru]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

I'm not sure if IMAX feeds each projector slightly different image data from a special 4K DCP in this instance or not,

IMAX does not send the exact same image to each projector, they are slightly different, together they merge.

image data from a special 4K DCP

IMAX digital is 2K, it is not 4K. IMAX does their own DCP's and they distribute themselves, their DCP's are 2K.

Originally Posted by BaerGriggs

So wouldn't regular 4K be better than digital IMAX in that case?

Depends, IMAX digital has more light. Remember, you cannot compare 4K to IMAX 3D...there is no such thing a 4K 3D for digital cinema at the present time. 3D is always 2K. There a lot of factors that come into play, just because it is 4K does not always mean superior.

[Poya]

Originally Posted by THXGuru

Depends, IMAX digital has more light. Remember, you cannot compare 4K to IMAX 3D...there is no such thing a 4K 3D for digital cinema at the present time. 3D is always 2K. There a lot of factors that come into play, just because it is 4K does not always mean superior.

For example, I want to see Gravity, but it was shot digitally, so it wouldn't look good on film projectors. Plus, it was done on a 2K DI. If it was projected in 4K, would that mean it would be upscaled? Would it look good on a Digital IMAX screen?

Note: I'm more of a 15/70 IMAX guy, but I only go to those that were shot on IMAX. For those that were DMR'ed, I use the Digital IMAX, even if its not as good.

[Batjoke100]

In my experience,

2K DCP = IMAX

4K DCP = Regular 4K

For the vast majority of movies done at 2K, Digital IMAX offers what's arguably the best experience. For the rare movie finished at 4K though, I would seek out a regular 4K screen, or even better, find one of those theater-specific IMAX rip offs like Cinemark XD. Those are great for 4K.

[THXGuru]

Originally Posted by Poya

For example, I want to see Gravity, but it was shot digitally, so it wouldn't look good on film projectors. Plus, it was done on a 2K DI. If it was projected in 4K, would that mean it would be upscaled? Would it look good on a Digital IMAX screen?

Note: I'm more of a 15/70 IMAX guy, but I only go to those that were shot on IMAX. For those that were DMR'ed, I use the Digital IMAX, even if its not as good.

If you saw Gravity, it would most likely look best in 2K Digital 3D IMAX. 2K digital does not look great on a large screen, but with glasses on it really makes no difference at the end of the day. Blowing up the 2K image to 15/70 is not really worth it, 15/70 was designed for 15/70. 2k will still look good in 15/70 as film is good and playing lower res material.

Where do you watch your 15/70 movies if you don't mind me asking?

As for Gravity on 4K projector, it does not upscale 2K to 4K for 3D presentations.

[Poya]

Originally Posted by THXGuru

If you saw Gravity, it would most likely look best in 2K Digital 3D IMAX. 2K digital does not look great on a large screen, but with glasses on it really makes no difference at the end of the day. Blowing up the 2K image to 15/70 is not really worth it, 15/70 was designed for 15/70. 2k will still look good in 15/70 as film is good and playing lower res material.

Where do you watch your 15/70 movies if you don't mind me asking?

As for Gravity on 4K projector, it does not upscale 2K to 4K for 3D presentations.

I go see my 15/70mm films at Universal Citywalk's IMAX theater.

And I'm not planning to see this in 3D. I hate the technology. It's a gimmick that lowers the picture quality. I just want the best possible viewing experience.

[BozQ]

Not many movies are produced in 4K anyway.
Most movies are digitally projected in 2K. From my understanding (I could be wrong) even if a cinema is equipped to project in 4K, but a particular movie is in 2K, it will not be upscaled whatsoever. It will still be projected in 2K.

That being said, if a 4K movie is available (eg. Elysium), I would try my best to seek out a 4K cinema, over IMAX digital. In fact, I have not watched any movie in IMAX since their digital nonsense started. The last movie I've watched in True 15/70 IMAX was The Dark Knight Rises when I was in Sydney for my honeymoon. One major reason why I'd choose to watch in 4K over Digital IMAX is the intended aspect ratio of the movie. In most cases, the IMAX version has an altered aspect ratio. And I am not fond of spending an extensive amount of money for a movie that was not optimized for the IMAX format. Digital or otherwise.

Unless the movie is partially filmed in IMAX, it is very unlikely for me to remotely consider watching it in IMAX. So with that in mind, I will consider watching Transformers: Age of Extinction in IMAX 3D.

[Poya]

Originally Posted by BozQ

Not many movies are produced in 4K anyway.
Most movies are digitally projected in 2K. From my understanding (I could be wrong) even if a cinema is equipped to project in 4K, but a particular movie is in 2K, it will not be upscaled whatsoever. It will still be projected in 2K.

That being said, if a 4K movie is available (eg. Elysium), I would try my best to seek out a 4K cinema, over IMAX digital. In fact, I have not watched any movie in IMAX since their digital nonsense started. The last movie I've watched in True 15/70 IMAX was The Dark Knight Rises when I was in Sydney for my honeymoon. One major reason why I'd choose to watch in 4K over Digital IMAX is the intended aspect ratio of the movie. In most cases, the IMAX version has an altered aspect ratio. And I am not fond of spending an extensive amount of money for a movie that was not optimized for the IMAX format. Digital or otherwise.

Unless the movie is partially filmed in IMAX, it is very unlikely for me to remotely consider watching it in IMAX. So with that in mind, I will consider watching Transformers: Age of Extinction in IMAX 3D.

So, if a movie was produced in 2K, it's better to go watch it in a 4K theater an it won't be upscaled. That's nice to hear.

Also, do you watch films on the 15/70mm IMAX that went through the DMR process or you just watch them in a 4K theater because DMR changes a film for the worse?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by BozQ

...From my understanding (I could be wrong) even if a cinema is equipped to project in 4K, but a particular movie is in 2K, it will not be upscaled whatsoever. It will still be projected in 2K.

No big-ee for you’re a good guy and it’s a confusing topic, plus I’ve been referred to much worse posted on the internet e.g. “the infrastructure for delivering 4K DCPs to theaters is not in place yet” < which has been misinformation. The actual DCS spec should make it more clear (underlining and bolding by moi) -

See - 2.1.1.5. of the DCS Version 1.2 ( http://dcimovies.com/specification/D..._2012-1010.pdf ) – “Media Blocks (MB) for 2K projectors are required to be able to extract and display the 2K resolution component from the 2K/4K DCP file(s). Media Blocks for 4K projectors are required to be able to output and display the full 4K DCDM. In the case of a 2K DCDM, the output of the Media Block is a 2K image. It is the responsibility of the 4K projectors to up-sample the image.”

Which means that with a 2K DCP running through a DCI compliant 4K projector system (which is not restricted in any fashion), audiences should get a 4K up-scaled image at their local 4K theater. In a nutshell, everything else being equal, generally 2K content appears better with 4K projection because the distance between the pixels is reduced.

[Poya]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

No big-ee for you’re a good guy and it’s a confusing topic, plus I’ve been referred to much worse posted on the internet e.g. “the infrastructure for delivering 4K DCPs to theaters is not in place yet” < which has been misinformation. The actual DCS spec should make it more clear (underlining and bolding by moi) -

See - 2.1.1.5. of the DCS Version 1.2 ( http://dcimovies.com/specification/D..._2012-1010.pdf ) – “Media Blocks (MB) for 2K projectors are required to be able to extract and display the 2K resolution component from the 2K/4K DCP file(s). Media Blocks for 4K projectors are required to be able to output and display the full 4K DCDM. In the case of a 2K DCDM, the output of the Media Block is a 2K image. It is the responsibility of the 4K projectors to up-sample the image.”

Which means that with a 2K DCP running through a DCI compliant 4K projector system (which is not restricted in any fashion), audiences should get a 4K up-scaled image at their local 4K theater. In a nutshell, everything else being equal, generally 2K content appears better with 4K projection because the distance between the pixels is reduced.

So what's the point of a Digital IMAX at the theater I go to when all of the projectors in that same theater are 4K?

[Uncanny]

Do both have DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby True HD? At the end of every movie those two plus Sony Digital Sound come up. Are we getting a Uncompressed soundtrack when we watch a movie?

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by Uncanny

Do both have DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby True HD? At the end of every movie those two plus Sony Digital Sound come up. Are we getting a Uncompressed soundtrack when we watch a movie?

No. Cinema does *not* use Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD. Those are solely for home entertainment use only.

Digital movies comes with LPCM soundtrack. It's up to each individual cinema whether they're fitted with Dolby or Datasat receiver to process the LPCM soundtrack. Either way, it should sound the same.

SDDS is a different story. I don't think they're relevant in digital releases. Only 35mm projection. Some newer productions don't even provide SDDS soundtracks anymore.

Before digital projection became common, the difference between Dolby, DTS and SDDS is debatable. But now, we're in a different era.

[Uncanny]

Info

Originally Posted by BozQ

No. Cinema does *not* use Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD. Those are solely for home entertainment use only.

Digital movies comes with LPCM soundtrack. It's up to each individual cinema whether they're fitted with Dolby or Datasat receiver to process the LPCM soundtrack. Either way, it should sound the same.

SDDS is a different story. I don't think they're relevant in digital releases. Only 35mm projection. Some newer productions don't even provide SDDS soundtracks anymore.

Before digital projection became common, the difference between Dolby, DTS and SDDS is debatable. But now, we're in a different era.

Thanks for the info. I did not know this. Do you or anybody know if AMC use Dolby or Datasat? Which one do more Cinema use? I know that AMC "Easton Town Center" in Columbus, Ohio use JBL speakers. So Digital IMAX and regular 4K have the same type of sound?

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by Uncanny

Info

Thanks for the info. I did not know this. Do you or anybody know if AMC use Dolby or Datasat? Which one do more Cinema use? I know that AMC "Easton Town Center" in Columbus, Ohio use JBL speakers. So Digital IMAX and regular 4K have the same type of sound?

IMAX uses a system called Sonics-DDP for its soundtrack. Which is essentially LPCM.

The unique feature about IMAX is it it uses a really powerful 5.1 system. Unlike most other cinemas today, where you get an array of speakers on the left, right and rear walls of the hall to play the 5.1 or 7.1 soundtrack, IMAX uses only six.

About its quality, well... I've only watched two movies in IMAX. The Matrix Revolutions and the Dark Knight Rises.

I don't remember much about The Matrix Revolutions because that was so many years ago. But I've watched TDKR in Sydney last year. And frankly, I'm not impressed. I found the subwoofer so damn loud that Hans Zimmer's score drown out the dialogue. And the experience became more distracting than I'd like.

So you could say I'd seek out a cinema that could offer the best experience over the best technical specifications. There was a time when Transformers Revenge of the Fallen was only projected in 35mm here in Singapore. Strangely, no digital.
And with that, it came with Dolby Digital only. But it was a THX certified hall and I remember how much I was blown away by the soundtrack, no matter how stupid the story was. Back then, I couldn't afford a decent set of speakers for myself. So much so I actually watched the movie three (or four times) just to experience it again and again. And I never regretted it. And you know the best part? It never bothered me once that I was listening to a lossy soundtrack even when I knew digital came with uncompressed audio.

Today, with a decent Blu-ray set up at home, I haven't been to the cinema for years until recently, with the advent of Dolby Atmos.

I was floored when I watched Star Trek Into Darkness. I was completely awestruck by the incredible new surround and I was actually depressed for a period when I realized I wouldn't be able experience this at home and true enough, TrueHD is no match. Dolby Atmos has truly made me visit the cinema more often than I was. And I implore you to do the same. Seek out the cinema that offers you the best experience. Find out which is the best seats in the house. Take note of the movie's aspect ratio and the cinema screen size. And book your tickets early. :-)

[Insomniac01]

Originally Posted by Canada

Obviously IMAX.

4096×2160 : 4K Digital Cinema
10,000x7000 IMAX, including IMAX HD and OMNIMAX: approximately 10,000×7000 (7000 lines) resolution.

Resolution isn't all that matters. I love imax but in terms of color, contrast and black levels it will be destroyed by a more traditional cinema with a quality 4k projector and screen (even 2k projectors will kill imax in essentially every area but size). At the same time though the impact imax can have when something is filmed in imax is truly stunning.

edit: in this post I am referring to real imax, in other words imax like there is in Melbourne and Sydney.