Value Electronics 2015 Flat Panel Shootout at CE Week

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

I would not worry about the life span of LG's OLED as they adopted/purchased Eastman Kodak's OLED pattens, which produce all of the colors from white OLED bulbs so their is no uneven pixel aging. We call it "color by White".

You may be entirely correct with your prediction and I certainly hope so but….it’s always best to see proof and we should see proof of actual lifespan (in practice) rather than based upon projections by theoretical models….assuming of course LG can meet the challenge of HDR….and I don’t mean the relatively simple capability to support various HDR solutions which marketing executives are touting to thee assembled audience (http://hdguru.com/manufacturers-deba...-ultra-hd-hdr/ ) ; but rather, enabling the LG tvs to produce high enough light output (over something more than a small patch of screen) in order to provide top drawer HDR imagery in the first place, no matter the HDR (open standard vs. proprietary) solution chosen.

Since OLED does produce such a fine picture, in the next 1-2 years we’ll see WOLED (white – OLED) large format panels in some post house(s) for mastering purposes where the monitors are routinely run 10-12 hrs/day. Another thing is that no matter what the lifespan, and this applies to both WOLED and RGB OLED, the current consensus is that running them at high light output (for HDR) will cause them to drift sooner (dictating more frequent re-calibration) than with conventional 100 nit usage.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

LG's OLED

Robert, this should put a smile on your face…Opening keynote by Dr. Han (of LG Display)….http://b2b.ifa-berlin.com/Press/Pres...News_9985.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Since OLED does produce such a fine picture, in the next 1-2 years we’ll see WOLED (white – OLED) large format panels in some post house(s)....

I expect the first company to come to market with a professional monitor using a large format (50-ish size) ‘white’ OLED panel (supplied by LG Display) to be a U.S. based (headquartered) company.

[JohnAV]

Home Theater Geeks 262: Value Electronics Flat-Panel Shootout 2015 - YouTube

Robert Zohn, owner of Value Electronics, Mark Henninger, senior writer for AVS Forum, and Joe Whip, special member of AVS, discuss the 11th annual Value Electronics Flat-Panel Shootout, held at CE Week in New York City, including the history and purpose of the event, how it changed this year, the new ballot, the contenders, the calibration of each display, the challenges we ran into, everyone's impressions of the TVs, the voting results, plans for next year, answers to chat-room questions, and more.

Reposted because relevant to this topic discussion

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Robert Zohn, owner of Value Electronics, Mark Henninger, senior writer for AVS Forum, and Joe Whip, special member of AVS, discuss the 11th annual Value Electronics Flat-Panel Shootout, held at CE Week in New York City, including the history and purpose of the event, how it changed this year, the new ballot, the contenders, the calibration of each display, the challenges we ran into, everyone's impressions of the TVs, the voting results, plans for next year, answers to chat-room questions, and more.

My goodness after reading the past couple pages in this thread informing us that Robert Zohn is banned from AVS, you mean to tell me that the Editor of AVS (isn’t that like the head online presence honcho? for the hobbyist site) and senior writer of AVS have no influence over Robert’s status over there with the administration? Geez Robert, what the heck did you do?

The whole fiasco reminds me of a song –

Eurythmics - Sweet Dreams (Are Made Of This) (Official Video) - YouTube

[schan1269]

I'm banned from AVS for two "infractions"(technically three)...

In a thread between a customer and installer(who happened to be a mod) I asked if he "really used" an extra 1400ft of wire on a 2 acre 10 speaker(in stereo, 5 sets of 2) installation...Or just charged too much (wire could have been run a spot, then "y'd", to form a series).

Calling it "DenonisGod" forum...cause...how dare you ever bring up anything that isn't Denon...

(third...technical)
Working for a wholesaler and giving "correct non retail BS answers". Had a guy question how I knew AVS "didn't stock" various products. I told him 5 brands of product to buy from AVS...as long as NIB...it came from us (which should have told the mod who I worked for). Anyway...the guy tells me the brand he bought(I needed nothing else to track it...as he listed where he lived in his sig). I PM'd the buyer his tracking information...before AVS did. Proving AVS didn't stock "everything they claim". (this all started over a person wanting to buy a DLP TV and his concern it shipping "all the way from AVS to his house"...to wit AVS responded "we'll pack it nice". To wit I responded..."the closest warehouse for those is 80 miles from you". Would have simpler to just say..."when it makes sense, we use a fulfillment center")

[raygendreau]

I would like to see a comment from Tim Alessi about this:

"I have been in contact with the Supervisor of the repair or replace department, for the last few weeks. He was waiting on the engineering department to come up with a fix before proceeding with the black bar fix for my 65EG9600.
It seems as if the engineering department feels the issue is now fixed and the EG9600 that are being built have this change to the power board" (SillySally AVS Forum 13 July, 015)

[Robert Zohn]

I've been told the same thing from other sources. I have a phone call meeting with Tim on Friday.

-Robert

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

I've been told the same thing from other sources. I have a phone call meeting with Tim on Friday.

-Robert

Robert

See if you can gleam any info regarding the EF6500: HDR ready for Bly-rays, etc.

[raygendreau]

Latest on dark edge panel fix: fixed panels will be those with serial numbers beginning with 506, 507, 508, representing June, July, August build dates. EDIT: In the U.S. the fix will be on the July build, serial numbers beginning with 507. (serial number is on a sticker on the outside of the box. (unconfirmed)
Current owners of EG9600s have an option to replace or repair. Repair will involve power board/panel replacement in August.

I wonder if current owners of displays with the defect have an option to return/refund and rebuy new displays at the new lower price?( LG 65EG9600.) Price dropped $2,000 recently.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Latest on dark edge panel fix:...

ABL (with LG OLEDs) and HDR are like oil and water, i.e. they don’t mix well. It will be another (more difficult) challenge for LG engineers.

[Robert Zohn]

Very good ^ point. However, I don't think ABL will be much of an issue as most of HDR's peak luminance content will be in specular highlights and the panel and power supply can handle small areas of peak luminance easily. Full screen high luminance that is on the screen for more than several seconds will cause the the ABL circuitry to kick in and begin to reduce the high luminance areas of the image.

Another factor that will make HDR work well with LG's EG9600 4K OLED is that the engineers are mapping the HDR META data to match the EG9600's contrast ratio range. So the panel is not driven harder to reach the high brightness that will be included with HDR content. In fact I expect 4K HDR w/WCG to look stunning on a 4K OLED as the overall contrast ratio and 0 MLL should deliver an absolutely stunning image.

-Robert

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Very good ^ point. However, I don't think ABL will be much of an issue as most of HDR's peak luminance content will be in specular highlights and the panel and power supply can handle small areas of peak luminance easily. Full screen high luminance that is on the screen for more than several seconds will cause the the ABL circuitry to kick in and begin to reduce the high luminance areas of the image.

Wishful thinking and yet to be determined, but I like your faith.

The devil’s in the details and with the implementation it all depends on the size of the area to be illuminated….with OLEDs, they can readily light a small area at a high nits level, but as the area gets bigger, the dimmer it becomes. We’ll have to wait and see how it actually pans out…..rather than watching a prototype at some trade show consuming God knows how much power. I think they’ll struggle with meeting a MaxFALL Ultra HD Blu-ray value of 400 nits and the higher value (1,000 nits) for brightest pixels used to bring out speculars, whereas LCDs won’t. For those not following, see the paragraph on Brightness and APL, as that’s an easy read - http://televisions.reviewed.com/cont...oled-tv-review

I can tell you right now that there are post house people who will not purchase a consumer LG OLED tv because of the ABL and how it affects just SDR content. Dealing with HDR ups the ante even more.

[Robert Zohn]

For LG's 2015 EG9600 series HDR will not effect the peak luminance level.

LG will map the HDR META data to the peak and minimum luminance levels that the TV can easily and normally display. So they will beautifully display HDR content in it's normal contrast range with much deeper blacks than any other HDR LCD TV.

So I don't see any extra stress on HDR content vs. SDR.

-Robert

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

For LG's 2015 EG9600 series HDR will not effect the peak luminance level.

LG will map the HDR META data to the peak and minimum luminance levels that the TV can easily and normally display. So they will beautifully display HDR content in it's normal contrast range with much deeper blacks than any other HDR LCD TV.

So I don't see any extra stress on HDR content vs. SDR.

-Robert

Believe me Robert, by now I know/realize your position. Zee proof will be in the pudding.

For a 3rd party perspective, I’d be interested in hearing from the display calibration and CM tools people (e.g. SpectraCal) as to what they think of HDR and LG OLED….. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...l#post10985611

[Robert Zohn]

Love that Youtube video! Stacy and Joel are very knowledgeable on UHD and the latest HDR, WCG advancements. That's why I reposted it. Hope more members listen to this great technical video on HDR.

My take on HDR is that I almost always see it with some kind of WCG content being demonstrated, usually P3, DCI, and for me, I love the color fidelity, color saturation and fine gradation of a good 10 bit panel with reference content playing.

The specular highlights are sometimes ok and sometimes not. But for my eyes the nicely improved color fidelity, more real to life color saturation and smoother gradation are what makes me look forward to HDR.

-Robert

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

For a 3rd party perspective, I’d be interested in hearing from the display calibration and CM tools people (e.g. SpectraCal) as to what they think of HDR and LG OLED….. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...l#post10985611

Too funny, literally about 2hr. after I made that ^ post, I’m alerted to listen to ~ 23 min. mark of yet another YouTube -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZWW...tu.be&t=23m20s

To which Scottie responds….”Yes, exactly” and moves on quickly to other things. I guess it’s nice to at least see my concern validated by the boys at SpectraCal.

And Joel …..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZWW...utu.be&t=4m20s

it may not be well understood on other forums/websites but color augmented by HDR is well understood on Blu-ray.com , or should be, as of about 2 weeks ago. But I do like how you guys think in regards to past pronouncements by *the video guru* Joe (K.)

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Love that Youtube video! Stacy and Joel are very knowledgeable on UHD and the latest HDR, WCG advancements. That's why I reposted it. Hope more members listen to this great technical video on HDR.

Wait for this rescheduled webcast for someone with scientific and firsthand experience further on up the pipeline....https://www.smpte.org/webcasts/Clari...ghDynamicRange

[raygendreau]

Regarding LG OLEDs and HDR:
1) First, we need UHD Alliance standards.
2) Next, we need the promised HDR updates for the EG9600 series.
3) Netflix needs to provide HDR content. Amazon and M-Go already do.
4) Then we need unbiased evaluations of HDR performance on the LGs from reviewers.

Until those things happen, I consider any comments on LG OLEDS and their performance displaying HDR to be nothing more than speculation.

The ABL on the 2015 EG9600s is less aggressive than it was on the 2014 models, so, as Robert said, it is unlikely to affect HDR performance on content. But, as I said, that is to be determined.

As for HDR via HDMI, that will have to wait for the fall intro of LG OLEDs which presumably will have HDMI 2.0a.

[raygendreau]

Robert, what can you tell us about the Friday call with Alessi? Was he able to confirm the dark edge panel fix? Several owners are now reporting that they expect replacement panels with power board (apparently the board is an integral part of the panel) within the next few weeks.