"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Mosman22

Hey Penton, forgive me if you aren't the right insider to ask this question to. Is it possible to add the ability to change the color of subtitles to a bd player. I tried watching the Perepolis bd with the original french language track and english subtitles. Problem is, the movie is black and white and the subtitles are in white.

I find that a dub track can ruin and even change the tone of a film. Yet, i found it difficult and annoying trying to read the white subtitles on a white background. It got so distracting trying to read white on white, that i had to change to the english track. In this world of interactive pip and bd live, it doesn't seem like a stretch to be able to control the color of subtitles. I personally would be happy with always having yellow subtitles, but for some reason studios seem to love white.

While me on the other hand I don't like yellow subtitles, they call attention to themselves and clash with the colors selected on the cinematography or look out of place as color over a b/w film. The solution to the white on white would be to have subtitles with a slightly thin, dark grey or black, outline.

[GabrielB]

Originally Posted by Mystery Clock

Deep breath everyone -- Bill Hunt now has an update up that says LA Confidential and Blow are in fact BD50 & TrueHD, not BD25 as reported before, because "incorrect information has been finding its way into the recent press releases for these titles (and the studio's press website)". He's also waiting on an update for SpeedRacer as well and wouldn't be surprised if that ends up BD50/TrueHD.

You know, with the very limited experience I have in marketing, I think this could all very well be a marketing move from Warer.
The concept is this: You suddenly bring forward a major news that you know will get attention, something that might even create panic.

Then you let it brew it little while. All the attention will be focused of that news.
People will forget about their other matters. This new thing is much more urgent! People will talk, etc. Feeding panic or anger.

And then you refocus the attention on something else. A good news perhaps, or some settlement to whatever the event was.

Most people will say, “Well, I'm so glad that's sorted out!“ or “Well... I'm glad I'm right here healthy and everything. Life is not so bad after all. (I think I'll go buy even more stuff now... ; )“

You get the idea.
Big corporations do it all the time. White house as well along with various news corporation associated with whatever external purpose.


They were still having bad press recently. Lots of people were still talking about DNR, etc.
Who wants to talk about those issues NOW when everyone is relieved about the good news... (And they're making us waiting a little bit longer for Speed Racer. I'm pretty sure it's also a BD-50 with TrueHD).
Now the attention is re-focused on the good news.


I panicked too. I sent an email to Bill. Wrote here on Penton's thread. Everything.
But now that I see how everything is settling out, I just had the feeling something was fishy.

Anyway, call me whatever you like.
It was just a thought.
I don't care as long as we get great releases and they rid themselves of DNR.
*But* we are manipulated much more than we think. Even when we know that we are...


Cheers,
Gabriel

[WickyWoo]

You know, with the very limited experience I have in marketing, I think this could all very well be a marketing move from Warer.
The concept is this: You suddenly bring forward a major news that you know will get attention, something that might even create panic.

Definately not

Simply a case of too much bureaocracy

[GabrielB]

Originally Posted by Mosman22

Hey Penton, forgive me if you aren't the right insider to ask this question to. Is it possible to add the ability to change the color of subtitles to a bd player. I tried watching the Perepolis bd with the original french language track and english subtitles. Problem is, the movie is black and white and the subtitles are in white.

Ditto.
Although like Deciazulado I really don't like yellow subtitles on BW films (they are so distracting), I think we should have the ability to change the size, the position, the color and even the opacity of the subtitles.

Size: When you have a 100+ inch screen, subtitles are really big!

Position: This has been spoken of before but the ability to change the position of the subtitles for Constant Image Height setups is a must!

Color: For individual preferences and also watchability affected by different factors (palette of the film, etc.). Controlling drop shadows would be also great in the case of white subtitles on BW films.

Opacity: When you watch a movie that is in a language that you don't fully master, it would be nice to set the subtitles to 50% to have them as a reference so they will be less intrusive --> your attention will be focused more on the film itself.

If I'd be able to control the opacity, I might be more willing to turn these on when I watch a movie from Ireland or something...


Anyone else?
Any chance manufacturers will start to implement this in future BD Players?
Wouldn't that be easy to do?

[WickyWoo]

Anyone else?
Any chance manufacturers will start to implement this in future BD Players?
Wouldn't that be easy to do?

Only if they're script generated. It's probably a copy protection issue doing it to TIFF based subs

[GabrielB]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Definately not

Simply a case of too much bureaocracy

OK then...Anyways this all might turn in their favor... Even with the panic.
"Warner Reaffirms Dedication to Blu-ray Quality"


BTW can you take a look at my post just ^^^^^ and tell me what you think...
I think it would be great if someone tried to implement the idea of subtitles 2.0

edit: just saw that your answered before I posted...

[GabrielB]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Only if they're script generated. It's probably a copy protection issue doing it to TIFF based subs

So doing it tiff based, the player could not in any way - never? - affect those four parameters mentioned above?

Even if those are protected, there should be a solution to have access to the file and change them? Non?
Video is highly protected but some players can change the sharpness, the gamma, etc... Wouldn't that be the same thing with subtitles?

[WickyWoo]

Even if those are protected, there should be a solution to have access to the file and change them? Non?
Video is highly protected but some players can change the sharpness, the gamma, etc... Wouldn't that be the same thing with subtitles?

Don't know for sure. The people who do know can't discuss it publically.

The sharpness and gamma are being changed after the picture is generated, it changes how the decoder chip processes it. Subtitles are overlayed onto the video signal in the decoding pathway, and given that they are part of the protected product ( the disc) that may create issues

Script based subtitles have specifically been specified as end-user customizeable

[Mosman22]

Originally Posted by GabrielB

Ditto.
Although like Deciazulado I really don't like yellow subtitles on BW films (they are so distracting), I think we should have the ability to change the size, the position, the color and even the opacity of the subtitles.

Exactly, i prefer yellow while you guys prefer white, in this on demand society the ability to choose for yourself doens't seem to much to ask for. Thanks for answering the question Wicky Woo unfortunaly from your response, it seems like the change would have to happen on the actual titles. So as far as i undersrand, instead of the player being able to dictate the color of the subtitles it is determined by the file on the bd. I would hope studios would take a look at this(although i realize they probably won't), with 50 gigs of space i am sure that is not the issue is space. I can't imagine subtitles take up much space.

Gabrielle i am with you on all the parameters you put out there. The ability to change the position, size, and color of subtitles would be a welcome feature. People have all different size tv's and seating distance. The ability to change the size of the text could come in very useful.

[GabrielB]

Originally Posted by Mosman22

So as far as i undersrand, instead of the player being able to dictate the color of the subtitles it is determined by the file on the bd. I would hope studios would take a look at this(although i realize they probably won't), with 50 gigs of space i am sure that is not the issue is space. I can't imagine subtitles take up much space.

Yeah it would be nice if they adopted script based subtitles. Anyway what's wrong with them? Studios don't like them?

But that will never provide a solution to all titles. It really needs to be implemented within the player.
But Wicky says, "[...]that may create issues". So maybe it's not impossible?... If a manufacturer likes he idea, maybe we could get it...


Wicky, is there a point in suggesting this to the proper group of people?

Originally Posted by Mosman22

i am with you on all the parameters you put out there. The ability to change the position, size, and color of subtitles would be a welcome feature. People have all different size tv's and seating distance. The ability to change the size of the text could come in very useful.

Exactly! Subtitles have not evolved since DVD and I think they need a makeover.

Originally Posted by Mosman22

Gabrielle i am[...]

Hey I'm a guy but the way!...

[WickyWoo]

Yeah it would be nice if they adopted script based subtitles. Anyway what's wrong with them? Studios don't like them?

Script based subs won't look as nice, and won't necessarily look the same on every player. Generating sub TIFFs was automated a long time ago in hollywood. You just feed in a timed script, push a button and come back in a few minutes

But that will never provide a solution to all titles. It really needs to be implemented within the player.
But Wicky says, "[...]that may create issues". So maybe it's not impossible?... If a manufacturer likes he idea, maybe we could get it...

It doesn't matter if people like the idea if it can't happen due to copy protection. Could be the same reason why they have to provide a "bumped" subtitles stream for common height as well

We can speculate until the cows come home, but no one without an NDA knows for sure one way or another

[Mosman22]

Originally Posted by GabrielB

Hey I'm a guy but the way!...

Sorry bout that i am a horrible speller, there was no offence intended. Also thanks to Wicky for the insight. I guess my dreams of customizable subtitles will never come to fruition. I do hope that maybe studios in the future, particurally in the case of a foriegn film where most users would use subtitles, that maybe they could include a white and a yellow version of the subs on the actual disc.

[Knight-Errant]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Too bad about Dark Night. I'm going to be very cautious with any Warner/New line title I buy. I'll wait for reviews (from those I trust). Their commitment to DNR must change.

Dark City! Don't even say anything that sounds like Dark Knight and DNR/EE

[Penton-Man]

I know nothing of the Blu-ray production of Dark City.
It may or may not suffer from overzealous digital noise reduction but a few screenshots are not conclusive proof of its usage.

As I’ve stated previously, absent of watching the movie in motion, you usually need a control for a fair comparative stationary assessment of this type of processing, such as side by side screenshots of a U.S version versus a U.K. version.

As for the Dark Knight, I just admire Chris Nolan’s zest for seemingly *pushing the envelope* on each subsequent film that he directs. For Batman Begins, contrary to the current feature film trend, he minimized CG FX work, didn’t go thru the D.I. process and captured with good old-fashioned anamorphic Panavision lensing to 35mm.

So, what does he do for the Dark Knight ?
He shoots mostly on anamorphic 35mm and in addition, captures all the action sequences on original IMAX camera negative.

I’m looking forward to viewing his future films in regards to what new goodies he will bring to audiences…. whether it be a new kind of material, or a different implementation of the material.

P.S.
And of course Heath Ledger’s performance is Oscar worthy.

[TauHeel05]

"The Dark Knight" is a masterpiece. The IMAX experience was just incredible. I can't wait to see this on blu-ray.

[Knight-Errant]

Originally Posted by TauHeel05

"The Dark Knight" is a masterpiece. The IMAX experience was just incredible. I can't wait to see this on blu-ray.

Oh very cool

[WickyWoo]

As I’ve stated previously, absent of watching the movie in motion, you usually need a control for a fair comparative stationary assessment of this type of processing, such as side by side screenshots of a U.S version versus a U.K. version.

New line does NOT smoothie their trailers, so directly compare the latest trailer yo ucan find on the disc (so the color timing matches. Try Trailer 3 on Golden Compass for example) with the comparing shots in the movie for the easiest/most accurate

[Bullseye]

Penton can you see the day when the entire feature lenght film would be shot in IMAX or even VistaVision like the old days??

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Penton can you see the day when the entire feature lenght film would be shot in IMAX or even VistaVision like the old days??

Problem with that right now is that the camera is so flippin' heavy and unwieldy, that it makes it very hard to use practically. It's also an incredibly expensive piece of equipment. I had also read something about a 2 minute filming limit- I admit I'm not even up to "novice" phase on film and cameras used, so what's the deal with that?

[wallendo]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Penton can you see the day when the entire feature lenght film would be shot in IMAX or even VistaVision like the old days??

Here's an interesting link from imdb.com about that exact subject.