"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Jeff Kleist]

Perhaps DRC is enabled on the Panny in the setup and on the PS3 it's not. Have you tried that?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

Penton,

that Baraka/edge-enhancement AVS thread is a sad, sad statement of how the mentality of false-assumptions, which was given astonishing life with the pro-HD DVD agenda there for so many months, is now desperate to find new false doctrines to attach itself to. I guess that deriding the world's most beautifully mastered Blu-ray was as good a farce to latch on to as anything.

In any case, I finally read the thread and had to post my own two cents:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=baraka&page=4

Bravo!

Your post reads even better while listening to a soundtrack I love.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DGGL...eature=related

[saprano]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

No player in existance can adjust the volume of a compressed digital signal. And both the bitstreamed TrueHD and extrapolated PCM from the TrueHD were the precise same level on the Panny. The panny was not altering volume for the decoded PCM output, otherwise it would have been a different level from the bitstreamed signal.

Also, there was no difference in level between the PS3's extrapolated PCM output over HDMI and the Panny either sending decoded PCM or native bitstream.

The differences I heard were due to something else other than "level".

What do you mean? the ps3 has a volume control, or are you talking about something else.

[jon s]

I have a new Pioneer BDP-05FD Elite Blu-Ray player as well as a Sony PS3. Comparing the two shows an obvious but subtle improvement in the picture on the Pioneer over the Sony. There appears more depth and sharpness on the Pioneer while the Sony looks a tad flat.

But the Pioneer is a perfect example of "not ready for prime time". The player is buggy, painfully slow in loading and has issues playing a number of titles. i am using a JVC RS-1 front projector on a Stewart 108" screen and the Pioneer exhibits frame skipping, dropped audio, freezes, slow response. The frame skipping is due to some incompatibility in the HDMI colorspace signal between the player and projector as it does not exhibit the same issue on a Pioneer Kuro plasma display.

OTOH, the Sony PS3 is blazingly fast, has no issues on any blu-rays I currently have. The only inconvenience is that it uses bluetooth for wireless features so i cannot use a universal remote with it. I am willing to give up a subtle picture loss to retain the hasslefree features of the PS3.

We are entering the third year of blu-rays existance and they still have not been able to make a bug-free player. That is a big turnoff for a lot of normal users who do not want to go online and continuously finding updates for their players...

[BluDomain]

Originally Posted by jon s

.......We are entering the third year of blu-rays existance and they still have not been able to make a bug-free player.......

I'm starting to feel like the ugly third grader that can't get laid. I have
a two year old SONY BDP-1 that has played every BD I have without
a problem. No BD Live of course, a little slow, but is reliable. No bugs,
and I quit installing fixes. 3.6 is the last one. I think they are up to
6.0, but haven't checked. I really want a new one just because....
well, just because.

I don't want BD Live, so I'll keep what I have. And quit reading
forums should help.

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by jon s

OTOH, the Sony PS3 is blazingly fast, has no issues on any blu-rays I currently have. The only inconvenience is that it uses bluetooth for wireless features so i cannot use a universal remote with it. I am willing to give up a subtle picture loss to retain the hasslefree features of the PS3.

What? You can get the Nyko for basic functionality for between $10 and $20. That's what I use with my Harmony 720 just fine.

If you want discrete controls dupliating full functionality (including discrete power on/off) get the ps3toothfairy for IR control. IIRC around $50 to 70.

[Jeff Kleist]

We are entering the third year of blu-rays existance and they still have not been able to make a bug-free player. That is a big turnoff for a lot of normal users who do not want to go online and continuously finding updates for their players..

Don't expect anyone to have a "bug free player" any time in the next year either. The technology is still evolving, and the format war stunted its growth for 18 months. The more complex you make something the easier it is to stop up the drain. The big object is to make firmware updates, safe, easy and rare.

[Bobby Henderson]

I'm starting to feel like the ugly third grader that can't get laid.

Jeez, I don't remember even getting a hard-on when I was 8 years old.

Maybe these younger fellows are eating too much hormone-laden beef!

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

Maybe these younger fellows are eating too much hormone-laden beef!

Or getting into Grandpa's stash of Viagra.

[Sith]

Originally Posted by BluDomain

I'm starting to feel like the ugly third grader that can't get laid. I have
a two year old SONY BDP-1 that has played every BD I have without
a problem. No BD Live of course, a little slow, but is reliable. No bugs,
and I quit installing fixes. 3.6 is the last one. I think they are up to
6.0, but haven't checked. I really want a new one just because....
well, just because.

I don't want BD Live, so I'll keep what I have. And quit reading
forums should help.

Though I 100% agree with you solution to this problem, and how your going
about it....I think the bigger issue is that you shouldn't have to turn off
your bd live...I personally have never used it and could give a s**t, but
some people do...

Oh and Penton, it's 6:07 pm hope your watchin football with a cold one...

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Sith

Oh and Penton, it's 6:07 pm hope your watchin football with a cold one...

Hardly, I’m still at work as I’m spreading my time between this…………………http://www.smpte.org/events/smpte_annual_tech/schedule/

and my normal daily obligations.

I hope to get home soon as long as nobody else entertains the idea of jumping off of a freeway overpass like this morning.

[micks_address]

interesting posts since friday.. so it looks like the ps3 is the player for joe the plumber.. who wants the most reliable playback/speed of loading with less firmware disc specific issues - but that there are better options out there for the AV enthusiasts. I eventually would like a standalone deck for 1 main reason -

Quieter operation - no matter how i ventilate my ps3 it still makes a fair bit of fan noise. Its in a closed cabinet with with temp controlled fans to exhaust the heat. This is actually my only real gripe with the ps3 i have what id call a second gen machine which reportedly uses 65nm cell chips and only used 2/3rds of the power that the launch ps3 did. I'm hoping Sony can make a 40nm cell machine which runs significantly cooler and uses less power.

I'd love to be able to try a player which Bitstreams the HD audio out - but then i'd need to update my receiver at it only accepts LPCM over HDMI. For now I'm happy enough with the ps3.

Jeff - You made a comparison with the ps2 being used as a dvd player and the ps3 being used as a blu-ray player - i dont think its a fair comparison at all. Most people agreed that even from launch the ps2s dvd playback was poor whereas the ps3's blu-ray playback has always been regarded as excellent.

A question to those who might know - do you think its possible for Sony to leverage more out of the Cell processor in the ps3 to improve blu-ray/dvd playback further in the ps3 or has it reached its potential on that front?

Cheers,
Mick

[Jeff Kleist]

Jeff - You made a comparison with the ps2 being used as a dvd player and the ps3 being used as a blu-ray player - i dont think its a fair comparison at all. Most people agreed that even from launch the ps2s dvd playback was poor whereas the ps3's blu-ray playback has always been regarded as excellent.

J6P doesn't notice the things we do, that's why 80% of the population has TVs in torch mode. For a gigantic part of the population, PS2 was their first DVD player.

A question to those who might know - do you think its possible for Sony to leverage more out of the Cell processor in the ps3 to improve blu-ray/dvd playback further in the ps3 or has it reached its potential on that front?]

Possible? Yes. Likely? No. What reason do they have to improve it, when they don't want to sell you a blu-ray player that they lose money on, they want to sell you a game system, and ideally, a PS3 AND a Blu-ray player.

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by micks_address

Quieter operation - no matter how i ventilate my ps3 it still makes a fair bit of fan noise. Its in a closed cabinet with with temp controlled fans to exhaust the heat. This is actually my only real gripe with the ps3 i have what id call a second gen machine which reportedly uses 65nm cell chips and only used 2/3rds of the power that the launch ps3 did. I'm hoping Sony can make a 40nm cell machine which runs significantly cooler and uses less power.
I'd love to be able to try a player

I think your problem is the enclosed cabinet. My 1st gen 90nm PS3 is whisper quiet but isn't in an enclosed cabinet of course (open air HDTV stand). Even after gaming or Blu-ray movie watching, I have to get my ear within 6 inches or so to hear anything and then it's just a soft woooshing noise. Nothing like my 360 which sounds like a jet on takeoff.

If anything, I'm hoping Sony revisits the PS-X concept with the PS3. Put those guts in a rectangular box with the option for multiple 3.5" SATA drives and a faster BD-ROM unit (BD burner would be tits!), memory stick reader, PS2 and SACD compatibility and some rear USB ports. I'd happily pay $600-1000 for such a beast.

[Grubert]

Penton-

Post Magazine has put up a nice article on restoration:
http://www.postmagazine.com/ME2/dirm...AD5E7C99AD8547

I'm glad to know all titles are being restored with such care and attention. Bodes well for a deluge of prime catalog in 2009.

That said...

Director's cuts of Friday and Set It Off?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Grubert

Penton-

Post Magazine has put up a nice article on restoration:
http://www.postmagazine.com/ME2/dirm...AD5E7C99AD8547

I'm glad to know all titles are being restored with such care and attention. Bodes well for a deluge of prime catalog in 2009.

Hmm, The Godfather restoration(s) ^, I recall those.

Unlike the thick edge enhancement attack on Baraka promoted by the *scientists* on the *science* forum, wasn’t The Godfather restoration(s) with the subsequent Blu-ray incarnation wrongly accused of having had dnr applied (until RAH preeminently blasted that *scientific* theory out of the water) and then later wrongly accused of incorrect color grading by the *scientists* after analysis of their online comparison screenshots?

Perhaps the later was due to their clueless ness to the fact that Jan and RAH viewed scanned images alongside 35mm projections for matching the looks (i.e. butterfly process) with FilmLight’s Baselight color management system.

Last month The Godfather, this month Baraka…….next month ? ? ? ?
I guess the modus operandi now is that the *scientists* (many of whom have a strong past history) throw every Blu-ray title up against the EE, DNR, or incorrect color grading screenshot wall and see if anything will stick........and if it doesn’t, well then just fall back upon the theory/statement - ‘I think it has had a tad of EE applied, or a tad of grain reduction washing but, not as bad as xxxxxx’.

Regarding the article, I just skimmed it but, Post is an excellent resource and I'll only add that there are a few other companies (that weren't named) involved in the restoration business, including some specifically for audio.

Lunchtime (not catered )

[Jeff Kleist]

Friday is a huge consistant seller. You would be shocked.

Back when I was a buyer, a store would move 5 a week

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Last month The Godfather, this month Baraka…….next month ? ? ? ?
I guess the modus operandi now is that the *scientists* (many of whom have a strong past history) throw every Blu-ray title up against the EE, DNR, or incorrect color grading screenshot wall and see if anything will stick........and if it doesn’t, well then just fall back upon the theory/statement - ‘I think it has had a tad of EE applied, or a tad of grain reduction washing but, not as bad as xxxxxx’.

Let's not forgot some scientist's efforts or, ummm, techniques to illustrate Dr. No.

[CptGreedle]

Hey Penton, I doubt you would know, but I might as well ask...
I hear that Disney is releasing Oliver and Company to DVD, but their press release also mentions "for the First Time EVER in High Definition!" yet there is no information or links to Blu-ray versions at all.
Is Disney releasing Oliver and Company to Blu-ray this February or is it a simple misprint?
http://www.ultimatedisney.com/oliver...ease-0203.html

[DaViD Boulet]

Originally Posted by saprano

What do you mean? the ps3 has a volume control, or are you talking about something else.

*compressed* digital bistreams, like undecoded Dolby Digital or DTS, cannot be processed with DSP to change level, EQ, or anything as the compressed file cannot be processed because in compressed form it's "zipped". Just like you can't edit a zipped word document.

Therefore, if you're bitstreaming to your receiver and *not* decoding and sending LPCM, then you're assured that your player is not introducing any extra processing into the signal. Of course, your receiver might, but it does remove the player as an agent of signal change.

This is one reason why players have to output all audio in PCM (or analog) if you desire to mix primary and secondary audio together... you can't mix menu clicks into a "zipped" Dolby Digital or DTS audio file.

If the PS3 contols level of digital audio, it could only apply to PCM.