"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Slec]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

^
Angels and Demons is 24bit DTS HD MA for English, the dubbed languages are HD MA 16bit.

nice!

[Xorp]

Hopefully the video bitrates on Sony discs won't take a plunge because of DTS-HD's horrible efficiency sucking up lots of the bandwidth.

[Mr. Cinema]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

^
Angels and Demons is 24bit DTS HD MA for English, the dubbed languages are HD MA 16bit.

Does this mean Pelham 1,2,3 will be? It's not been a great Summer, but that film was enjoyable.

[syncguy]

Originally Posted by Xorp

Hopefully the video bitrates on Sony discs won't take a plunge because of DTS-HD's horrible efficiency sucking up lots of the bandwidth.

This cannot possibly occur to have any visual impact on PQ. Even if the video is taking 100% of available disk space, the amount of reduction in video bit rate due to DTS HD-MA will be not significant enough to have a visual impact on any change to PQ.

[hanser]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

The plan is to put a future release out (on Blu-ray)…..I’m thinking the Friday prior to the DVD street date.

The exact timing will be largely based upon input from retailers.

Isn´t that too close? I think it was with Bolt, that there was only a few days difference, and in the end retailers just sold the DVD a few days earlier, because they already had them. The time window should be large enough that retailers receive ONLY the Blu-rays, not the DVDs. Or did I miss something? Sorry, if I don´t make sense.

[4K2K]

Originally Posted by syncguy

This cannot possibly occur to have any visual impact on PQ. Even if the video is taking 100% of available disk space, the amount of reduction in video bit rate due to DTS HD-MA will be not significant enough to have a visual impact on any change to PQ.

Penton is this correct? No matter how many audio tracks there are and how much bitrate is used for all the audio tracks, it will never have any affect on PQ of the video?

[Jeff Kleist]

Isn´t that too close? I think it was with Bolt, that there was only a few days difference, and in the end retailers just sold the DVD a few days earlier, because they already had them. The time window should be large enough that retailers receive ONLY the Blu-rays, not the DVDs. Or did I miss something? Sorry, if I don´t make sense.

Because there were a lot of pissed off parents who didn't understand why there was one and not the other, and were buying the Blu and returning it when it didn't work.

Personally I'd make it at least a week and make sure they have NO non-Blu stock until that Monday

Penton is this correct? No matter how many audio tracks there are and how much bitrate is used for all the audio tracks, it will never have any affect on PQ of the video?

Toss enough tracks in there and it will. A raw PCM 48/24 track needs 6.9mbps. If you have a busy movie like Mutant Chronicles that I was watching last night, the compression doesn't save you that much and it was constantly floating in the high 4's-mid 5's. I'd say the number of lossless tracks you choose to include is a higher concern when taking video bitrate into account, and that letting the dublovers eat lossy is probably always adviseable anyway in order to steer them as gently as possible toward enjoying the 50% of the movie they're missing

[syncguy]

Originally Posted by 4K2K

Penton is this correct? No matter how many audio tracks there are and how much bitrate is used for all the audio tracks, it will never have any affect on PQ of the video?

I should have said “This cannot possibly occur (for practical configurations) ….” Of course there will be an impact on video if 10 DTS HD-MA tracks were included and also there would be an impact on video if 10 Dolby TrueHD tracks were included.

Let’s do a simple calculation:

The average bit rate over the length of a typical movie for
DTS HD-MA (48KHz/24bit) is about 4 Mbit/s
Dolby TrueHD (48 KHz/16bit) is about 1.5 Mbit/s

The difference would be about 2.5 Mbit/s over the length of the movie

Say the available capacity on the disk (for audio+video) is C GBytes
Length of the movie is T minutes

The average bit rate for video+audio = C*8*1000/(T*60) Mbit/s

If ‘N’ DTS HD-MA tracks were included (instead of Dolby TrueHD), the bit rate of the movie reduces from (C*8*1000/(T*60)) - 1.5N to (C*8*1000/(T*60)) - 4N
(considering the difference of audio bit rate as 2.5 Mbit/s for Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA)

If 40GBytes is available on the disk for a 2 hour movie (allocating about generous 10GBytes for other features):
A single DTS HD-MA track will reduce video bit rate from 42.5 Mbit/s to 40 Mbit/s
2 DTS HD-MA tracks will reduce video bit rate from 41 to 36 Mbit/s
(There could be a video bit rate cap at 40 Mbit/s for blu-ray)

For the AVC encoder, I do not think there would be a perceivable PQ difference between 40 Mbit/s and 36 Mbit/s (average bit rate) over the length of the movie.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by syncguy

This cannot possibly occur to have any visual impact on PQ. Even if the video is taking 100% of available disk space, the amount of reduction in video bit rate due to DTS HD-MA will be not significant enough to have a visual impact on any change to PQ.

That isn't true. When paidgeek was around these parts he mentioned that Sony was using 20 bit TrueHD simply because they didn't want to hurt the video bitrate. So obviously audio can take its toll. If there was only one soundtrack, they'd be fine. But including multiple soundtracks for different languages does start to play into the video pool.

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

That isn't true. When paidgeek was around these parts he mentioned that Sony was using 20 bit TrueHD simply because they didn't want to hurt the video bitrate. So obviously audio can take its toll. If there was only one soundtrack, they'd be fine. But including multiple soundtracks for different languages does start to play into the video pool.

Hopefully, encoders (and encoding) have improved since then...

Hot enough for you?

~Alan

[syncguy]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

That isn't true. When paidgeek was around these parts he mentioned that Sony was using 20 bit TrueHD simply because they didn't want to hurt the video bitrate. So obviously audio can take its toll. If there was only one soundtrack, they'd be fine. But including multiple soundtracks for different languages does start to play into the video pool.

Yes, if many DTS HD-MA or Dolby TrueHD tracks were included that will impact video. Based on what I have seen, practically many lossless audio tracks are not included in a movie. So, I was thinking of 1 or 2 HD audio tracks. I have given some details in my previous post.

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Because there were a lot of pissed off parents who didn't understand why there was one and not the other, and were buying the Blu and returning it when it didn't work.

Personally I'd make it at least a week and make sure they have NO non-Blu stock until that Monday

Well for Bolt, there was a digital copy as well as a standard DVD of the movie right there in the package with the Blu-ray!

[Jeff Kleist]

You're assuming they're smart enough to flip the tray Seriously mostly it was a lot of customer service hassle with employees searching for the DVDs, piles of confusion and all resulted in a busted street date

Lots of signage, employee education, etc are important for any stunt like this

[trans22]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Well how about this idea for a poll:

When I see a film theatrically I want to purchase what I saw on home video. Not some "Extended" edition or "Outrageous Unrated!" edition that comes without the original cut. Sony has gotten better about offering both options, and Universal seems to have the best track record so far. Lionsgate is pretty good (not perfect). Paramount, Warner and Disney on the other hand...

Since other studios notice these polls maybe they will take notice, I'm sure other people will prefer to have both cuts when possible.

Option 1: Both cuts seamlessly branched.
Option 2: Theatrical cut only.
Option 3: Unrated/Extended Cut only
Option 4: Both versions, 1 on each disc.

I agree, i really want the theatrical version of UNDERWORLD on blu-ray, the xtended version is too slow.

[trans22]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

^
Angels and Demons is 24bit DTS HD MA for English, the dubbed languages are HD MA 16bit.

hi penton-man, i've noticed THE CRAFT has been announced by SONY, will it have DTS?

[Scorxpion]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema

Does this mean Pelham 1,2,3 will be? It's not been a great Summer, but that film was enjoyable.

As i expected for Angels and Demons and i hope so for Pelham 1,2,3 .But if Angels and Demons include a DTSHD master audio ,i'm sure Pelham 1,2,3 will have it too.

A Special Thanks to Penton,

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Well how about this idea for a poll:

When I see a film theatrically I want to purchase what I saw on home video. Not some "Extended" edition or "Outrageous Unrated!" edition that comes without the original cut. Sony has gotten better about offering both options, and Universal seems to have the best track record so far. Lionsgate is pretty good (not perfect). Paramount, Warner and Disney on the other hand...

Since other studios notice these polls maybe they will take notice, I'm sure other people will prefer to have both cuts when possible.

Option 1: Both cuts seamlessly branched.
Option 2: Theatrical cut only.
Option 3: Unrated/Extended Cut only
Option 4: Both versions, 1 on each disc.

Brilliant idea for a poll... one I second the motion for (not that it will necessarily do any good) as even if I prefer an unrated cut, I still like to have the "Theatrical" version for posterity's sake.

~Alan

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

Out of various digital copies being offered, I prefer the standard DVD discs like what were included with movies like Sleeping Beauty.

Agreed! I've never even USED one of my digital copies... but I kind of like having the DVD discs (though I'm not willing to pay extra for one).

~Alan

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Geez, who would of thunk?.............
https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3185

And……the last time I checked, October 20th still resides in “the Fall”.
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ll#post2044794

I just noticed on Blu-news.com that "Dance Flick" from Paramount will be DTS-HD MA as well....

~Alan<~~~~~~~~~~Who wonders if all the "funny stuff" was in the trailers...

[doctorD]

Originally Posted by Alan Gordon

I just noticed on Blu-news.com that "Dance Flick" from Paramount will be DTS-HD MA as well....

~Alan<~~~~~~~~~~Who wonders if all the "funny stuff" was in the trailers...

Wow...I just posted a question about this in "Digital Bits" thread. DVDActive posted the same thing today:

http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/dance-flick.html

So what is up with Paramount? Is DTS-HD MA going to be their audio of choice going forward starting with Dance Flick?