"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Shark and others-
Given the current Hitchcock hoopla (North by Northwest) and how all these filmmakers are/were intertwined over time (Michael Powell, Thelma Schoonmaker, Martin Scorsese), you may be interested in viewing this video-clip which I posted here about 1 ½ yrs. ago.

http://www.scorsesefilmfreixenet.com/video_eng.htm
^
Watch it thru to the end.

Thanks, Penton, that was a lot of fun!

[Bobby Henderson]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I mean, even for those who have actually expended the time and expense to get their computer monitors as optimal as possible, by only utilizing something like the Spyder 3 or Spyder 2 Pro calibration tools, that’s o.k. if one assumes that your factory settings are perfect and that the gamma curve is correct. However, the chances of that being the case are very small.

The vast majority of computer users believe that one flat panel LCD monitor is no better than the next. So they pick up a $200 monitor at Wal-Mart, Costco or Sam's Club thinking that will do the job.

On the topic of computer monitor calibration tools, I favor the tools from X-Rite. They deliver a more all-around variety of solutions for creating custom profiles for computer monitors, graphics applications and printers. The company acquired GretagMacbeth and Pantone. So that pretty much makes them the "Adobe" or "Microsoft" of color control software and hardware.

The Spyder, from datacolor, is a $79 device. I think you get more capability from the X-Rite i1Diplay2 colorimeter. It costs $259 though. That may seem like a lot, but do some searching back into the 1990s and see what graphics folks were having to pay for colorimeters and profiling software. Today's prices are a bargain. Nevertheless, very few people outside of graphics professionals are using those tools.

[Jeff Kleist]

If you run a calibration program on your playback software, you should be able to get something fairly accurate. There's a lot of finetuning controls in there just like a TV. So while the rest of your monitor may be out of whack, the software is written with TV display in mind

All my computer playback soft is calibrated with DVE, and I'll run my Spears&Munsil disc on my new machine for Blu.

It's not perfect, but I'd say it's 98% there, so long as you're not making absolute judgements based on it.

[FourToedStatue]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Ask Max, I miss him.
Max, where are you?
Get your butt back to Blu-ray.com!

I miss Talkstr8t and Paidgeek.

[Vincent Pereira]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

If this film (mostly S16) from the U.K. ever makes it onto Blu-ray the *color realists* will have to either close their eyes during this scene or else be “taken completely out of the movie” due to the “unnatural” colors due to the baroque red-gelled Dedolights………..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPpe2_fsqD8

Guys, this Bronson flick by Nicolas Refn makes The Green Mile and Shawshank Redemption seem like Sunday school lessons.

BRONSON was photographed by some dude named Larry Smith- what does HE know? He only learned everything he knows from working on several films for some guy named Kubrick. How could he possibly be more informed than random folks who post on the internets?

Vincent

[Dennis M]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Kris, I would like to know how many *screenshot scientists* that have misused screenshots (over months, if not years) by using them to make simplistic judgments regarding critical picture quality of Blu-ray movies actually have their computer monitors accurately professionally calibrated.

I mean, even for those who have actually expended the time and expense to get their computer monitors as optimal as possible, by only utilizing something like the Spyder 3 or Spyder 2 Pro calibration tools, that’s o.k. if one assumes that your factory settings are perfect and that the gamma curve is correct. However, the chances of that being the case are very small.

Because the above (Spyder, etc.) won’t help you in regards to setting up red, green, and blu in both blacks and whites. You need more (sspears plug).

Penton, you mean we have to actually calibrate our display systems to have a correct presentation of the materials in question?

All joking aside. I'd say the vast majority are viewing their Blu-rays on non calibrated display systems.
But there are other variables that need to be questioned as well. Even if they've done a calibration, how accurate is said display across the spectrum? Does it have a colour management system? If not, then your at the mercy of the internal colour decoder, which are notorious for being incorrect.
Let's not even get into environment light control.

Shark, gets a laugh at the levels I go too.

There are just to many variables that come into play to take screenshots posted on the Internet seriously. They are anecdotal at best.

Would you mind giving us some insight into what Sony Pictures does to prep their displays? I think most here would appreciate it.
I would for sure.

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

The vast majority of computer users believe that one flat panel LCD monitor is no better than the next. So they pick up a $200 monitor at Wal-Mart, Costco or Sam's Club thinking that will do the job.

On the topic of computer monitor calibration tools, I favor the tools from X-Rite. They deliver a more all-around variety of solutions for creating custom profiles for computer monitors, graphics applications and printers. The company acquired GretagMacbeth and Pantone. So that pretty much makes them the "Adobe" or "Microsoft" of color control software and hardware.

The Spyder, from datacolor, is a $79 device. I think you get more capability from the X-Rite i1Diplay2 colorimeter. It costs $259 though. That may seem like a lot, but do some searching back into the 1990s and see what graphics folks were having to pay for colorimeters and profiling software. Today's prices are a bargain. Nevertheless, very few people outside of graphics professionals are using those tools.

Hey, thanks, I wondered which one to get.

[sharkshark]

I didn't want to spoil Bronson - I really like Refn, even when he doesn't do quite as well as I would have wanted (saw Valhala Rising at TIFF this year).

They actually showed all three Pusher films back to back a couple years ago, it was GREAT.

I had another post that got lost in the ether - short version, saw the original Italian Job. It was spectacular! Yeah, i'm 40+ years too late to get on that bandwagon, but I had no idea it'd be so much damn fun. The photography (by Solocombe no less) is gorgeous, even on bargain bin SD. English Footie fans in 1969 Turin, what's not to love!

What's crazy is how much shittier it makes the remake (which I have, naturally, on HD DVD). I thought, whatever, silly 60s car movie, the remake is silly, so be it. Wow, was I wrong.

[Penton-Man]

There’s a break in the action so I’ve got a few moments to muse with yous.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by GGX

Thats pretty much what I've been thinking. I'd rather the disc space be used for the movie.

GGX, I thought that the only thing you ever thought about was DNR……in every form or fashion related to any thread that comes up on this forum be it regarding theory, studio practices/protocols or actual software product.

This indeed is a pleasant change.
You seem to be a fan of the film given your concern for picture quality being potentially compromised by *extras*.
Given your assumed familiarity with the film, which in the future should effortlessly lead to the identification of any potential encoding compromises during Blu-ray play-back, tell me this, when you saw the motion picture at the theater, did you notice any noise from the digital acquisition in any scenes and which scenes were those……if you saw any (noise)?

The association being that like film grain, noise is also a bitrate hog.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Vincent Pereira

BRONSON was photographed by some dude named Larry Smith- what does HE know? He only learned everything he knows from working on several films for some guy named Kubrick. How could he possibly be more informed than random folks who post on the internets?

Vincent

Just wait until the *screenshot analysis* begins hacking on the baroque lighting effects used by John Hora on the interiors of Gremlins…………not to mention the 85C filter he used to produce an overall blue hue during the exterior Kingston Fall scenes.

If past history serves as any indication to future postings……
Upcoming *screenshot science analysis* will contribute comments like these –
“Nighttime snow scenes with shadows should be naturally black! There are no inky blacks in these scenes. Bad transfer!”
“The snow has a slight blue hue along with all the other assorted whites. Snow is not naturally slightly-blue tinged. Bad transfer!”

Again, like Larry Smith, what would John Hora know anyway?.........
http://www.filmtools.com/asc-manual-com.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Dennis M

Penton, you mean we have to actually calibrate our display systems to have a correct presentation of the materials in question?

All joking aside. I'd say the vast majority are viewing their Blu-rays on non calibrated display systems.
But there are other variables that need to be questioned as well. Even if they've done a calibration, how accurate is said display across the spectrum? Does it have a colour management system? If not, then your at the mercy of the internal colour decoder, which are notorious for being incorrect.
Let's not even get into environment light control.

Shark, gets a laugh at the levels I go too.

There are just to many variables that come into play to take screenshots posted on the Internet seriously. They are anecdotal at best.

Would you mind giving us some insight into what Sony Pictures does to prep their displays? I think most here would appreciate it.
I would for sure.

*Screenshot scientists* don’t need to use physical items like contact probes or calibration software in order to critically compare still images assessing for differences in contrast, color, how apparent grain/noise is in highlights and shadows, etc.

They have the ability to stare at their computer screens and mentally alter gamma curves which are initially off when their displays come from the factory, as well as having the ability to keep those colors stable by simply touching their screens with a golden finger, while the rest of us poor blokes have to re-calibrate our LCD’s for viewing Blu-rays at least once every 200–300 hours because of drifts in white color temperature and brightness.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by wallendo

I don't know about that screenshot, it looks like excessive DNR was applied, or should I say "DNR'd to Death"

Or did Maya just ask the DP for "soft focus" to cover up age lines.

Truly!

I should get that Garrett fellow to make me a Steadicam for my handlebars and also a handlebar mounted thumb switch to release the shutter instead of trying to push those damn tiny buttons built for hamster fingers while I’m riding trying to avoid all the ruts!

Try these (Deci) -

Trick or Treat.jpg

Going werewolf 1.jpg

[Dennis M]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Just wait until the *screenshot analysis* begins hacking on the baroque lighting effects used by John Hora on the interiors of Gremlins…………not to mention the 85C filter he used to produce an overall blue hue during the exterior Kingston Fall scenes.

If past history serves as any indication to future postings……
Upcoming *screenshot science analysis* will contribute comments like these –
“Nighttime snow scenes with shadows should be naturally black! There are no inky blacks in these scenes. Bad transfer!”
“The snow has a slight blue hue along with all the other assorted whites. Snow is not naturally slightly-blue tinged. Bad transfer!”

Again, like Larry Smith, what would John Hora know anyway?.........
http://www.filmtools.com/asc-manual-com.html

Maybe if you fired out some back issues of American Cinematographer to the scientists they might get it.
Oh forgot, directors' intent does not come into play here. All that matter is that it does not look the way they think it should.

Getting flashbacks about debates with people on this issue.
Their fallback position was always "how do we know what the directors' intent was?"
Well, with a little effort you can find out. There are plenty of sources if you look for them. It's not like the directors don't talk about their work.

[Dennis M]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

*Screenshot scientists* don’t need to use physical items like contact probes or calibration software in order to critically compare still images assessing for differences in contrast, color, how apparent grain/noise is in highlights and shadows, etc.

They have the ability to stare at their computer screens and mentally alter gamma curves which are initially off when their displays come from the factory, as well as having the ability to keep those colors stable by simply touching their screens with a golden finger, while the rest of us poor blokes have to re-calibrate our LCD’s for viewing Blu-rays at least once every 200–300 hours because of drifts in white color temperature and brightness.

When I tell people I calibrate my PJ twice a year, they look at me like I'm crazy.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Dennis M

When I tell people I calibrate my PJ twice a year, they look at me like I'm crazy.

Well, that and you look crazy. That's a good reason to look at you like your crazy.

Penton, you deflected from dear Dennis' question - any idea what the target Gamma is for mastering, and what they're using these days in lieu of CRT for mastering? I know there was talk about Kuros for final checks and 42" LCDs with cranked contrast to spot problems for J6P, but if there's any nerdiness about Sony's workflow for spotting PQ it'd be groovy.

Just sayin'...

Besides, your pics kinda made me think of this:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/sto...-reaction.html

and the insane irony of another folkie from Canada named Mitchell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSZcK48cTiU

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Well, that and you look crazy. That's a good reason to look at you like your crazy.

Penton, you deflected from dear Dennis' question - any idea what the target Gamma is for mastering, and what they're using these days in lieu of CRT for mastering? I know there was talk about Kuros for final checks and 42" LCDs with cranked contrast to spot problems for J6P, but if there's any nerdiness about Sony's workflow for spotting PQ it'd be groovy.

Just sayin'...

Besides, your pics kinda made me think of this:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/sto...-reaction.html

and the insane irony of another folkie from Canada named Mitchell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSZcK48cTiU

I was coming to post the same story to Penton, but from Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,570400,00.html

But Maya would never attack Penton in this way, would she?

[Dennis M]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Well, that and you look crazy. That's a good reason to look at you like your crazy.

That remark earns you another Elac listening session.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Dennis M

.......Their fallback position was always "how do we know what the directors' intent was?"
Well, with a little effort you can find out. There are plenty of sources if you look for them. It's not like the directors don't talk about their work.

It’s much easier to speculate or type IMHO on the internet than it is to state fact and go on record for doing so.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Penton, you deflected from dear Dennis' question - any idea what the target Gamma is for mastering, and what they're using these days in lieu of CRT for mastering?

Yes and Yes.