"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Grubert

Depends. Did Graffeo apply policy or make policy at Universal?

In my opinion, that doesn't matter. I wasn't saying "He was just following orders" - I was saying that good people can believe in products and personally push for them to succeed, and still be good people even if the product eventually fails.

There's no evidence that Graffeo's support of HD DVD was nefarious or underhanded in any way - he simply made decisions that ended up being bad for Universal. If the consequence for those money-losing decisions is him getting fired, so be it - but it does not reflect on his ethics.

[milou6]

Format War Doc 2 Cents: Getting some interviews now from people (industry, early adopters, j6p) to add to the later work could help capture the raw feelings of the 'war' -- I think it's important to capture some of that to help explain some of the irrationality and fud that was (is?) going on.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by milou6

Format War Doc 2 Cents: Getting some interviews now from people (industry, early adopters, j6p) to add to the later work could help capture the raw feelings of the 'war' -- I think it's important to capture some of that to help explain some of the irrationality and fud that was (is?) going on.

That’s a good point. I know he’s got interviews lined up with formerly red industry folk and “analysts” but, I’m unsure if he has considered any early adopter or j6p face time.

I just thought of a horrific scenario.
Setting………….. A blu supporter invites a bunch of friends (tru Blu) over for a Sat. evening to watch the format war documentary in his home theater.

The barbecue spin-meister is interviewed on screen and plays himself…….some Blu supporters become so outraged by the post-war spin on camera that they hurl popcorn and soft drinks at the host’s $10,000 Stewart 147” StudioTek 130 Vertical ElectriScreen.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Grubert

Depends. Did Graffeo apply policy or make policy at Universal?

BTW, Penton:

Warner's Nickerson is out. Microsoft's Majidimehr is out. Universal's Graffeo is out. But I haven't heard about any heads rolling at Toshiba (Japan or America). Will nobody be made accountable there?

If by “heads rolling” you mean being sacked, I think that is the least of their problems if the Yakuza happen to be major shareholders …......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upru1_0sDdM

[milou6]

I cringe at the thought!

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I just thought of a horrific scenario.
Setting………….. A blu supporter invites a bunch of friends (tru Blu) over for a Sat. evening to watch the format war documentary in his home theater.

The barbecue spin-meister is interviewed on screen and plays himself…….some Blu supporters become so outraged by the post-war spin on camera that they hurl popcorn and soft drinks at the host’s $10,000 Stewart 147” StudioTek 130 Vertical ElectriScreen.

[desmond]

Mr P.:

HD DVD PRG is no more! Any comments?

[aygie]

Originally Posted by desmond

Mr P.:

HD DVD PRG is no more! Any comments?

http://www.hddvdprg.com/eng/index.html

Just in case anyone else wants a look.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Aygie

http://www.hddvdprg.com/eng/index.html

Just in case anyone else wants a look.

Classic!

[Elandyll]

Again thank you for your participation on those boards Penton

I was just thinking that if it so happened that you would get a chance to talk with a person from Weinstein, I do hope they know that (I feel that) a lot of people -including me- are holding on buying the DVD of "The Mist" (awesome movie imho) because we would really really rather buy it on Blu Ray

Just in case they'd like to know

[fitprod]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Classic!

Well what did you expect? There's nothing left to promote.

I wanted this silly format war over as much as the next guy, but jumping or pissing on it's grave is just stupid.

The same goes for those of you still trashing Ken Graffeo...

fitprod

[garytma]

PM,

I just wanted to post in here, and thank you for responding to, and commenting on, my post at Bill Hunt's thread, regarding Widescreen Review's apparent lament that Blu won the day, in the HD disc sweepstakes.

I am sure that I will continue to find WSR still a part of my home theater-world information intake, but I so appreciate your additional info.

I am always fascinated by the human intrigues that occur beneath the veneer of day to day business operations.

Thanks again

[Woody]

Originally Posted by garytma

PM,

I just wanted to post in here, and thank you for responding to, and commenting on, my post at Bill Hunt's thread, regarding Widescreen Review's apparent lament that Blu won the day, in the HD disc sweepstakes.

I am sure that I will continue to find WSR still a part of my home theater-world information intake, but I so appreciate your additional info.

I am always fascinated by the human intrigues that occur beneath the veneer of day to day business operations.

Thanks again

I too am a WSR subscriber and almost cancelled my 6+ year subscription because of the blatant bias they showed toward HD DVD. I imagine I would have if the war continued on for a few more months.

[blufuture]

purchased "Total Recall" to discover video transfer approx to barely upgraded standard DVD. Seriously grainy and dull! I pulled it and popped in "I Robot" just to make sure my panasonic 1080 100" throw front projector had not malfunctioned somehow. Does anyone else own this title? Wondering why a great flick like this would have such a poor blu-ray transfer. I believe it was in 16x9 and "I Robot" is obviously 2.35x1. Are the newer movies going to be the only safe bets for pristine transfer?

thanx,
blufuture

[dakota81]

Originally Posted by blufuture

purchased "Total Recall" to discover video transfer approx to barely upgraded standard DVD. Seriously grainy and dull! I pulled it and popped in "I Robot" just to make sure my panasonic 1080 100" throw front projector had not malfunctioned somehow. Does anyone else own this title? Wondering why a great flick like this would have such a poor blu-ray transfer. I believe it was in 16x9 and "I Robot" is obviously 2.35x1. Are the newer movies going to be the only safe bets for pristine transfer?

thanx,
blufuture

The movies that released in 2006 were not up to par with the movies that released in 2007 & 2008. A rough ranking of title quality is listed here if you want to reference before purchasing:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=858316

[owa]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I know he’s got interviews lined up with formerly red industry folk and “analysts” but,

In that case, I hope he does find some knowledgeable people from the blu-ray side to provide balance. Otherwise, it's the format-war all over again with HD DVD industry folks having another pulpit (medium) to spread whatever propaganda/BS they want.

[Penton-Man]

I’m still getting PM’s concerning my thoughts on particular Blu-ray titles in regards to DNR, i.e. is it there? why is it there?, etc. because it seems that DNR has become the modern day Scarlet Letter (s) ……………..
http://www.amazon.com/review/product...owViewpoints=1

It’s getting close to the point now that whenever some hobbyists see softness or blurriness on images of Blu-ray titles, it is by definition the dreaded *DNR*……and by implication, some believe there has been a technician screw-up or else a post house sell-out to the smoothie masses in regards to implementing excessive grain reduction.

First of all, regarding DNR, some companies actually get awards (imagine that!) for their proprietary processing products including DNR…………………….
http://digitalproducer.digitalmedian....jsp?id=177614

Secondly, “softness” may also be due to other things like focus issues or intended optical diffusion (filters or lighting) related to the primary photography and few people have reliable photographic memories to accurately remember the theatrical presentations -despite what they claim on internet forums.

Also, some people mistaken noise reduction lag for cinematography related *motion blur*, which is a function not just of the frame rate but also the shutter angle in the camera. A wider shutter angle increases the exposure time of each frame thus increasing the motion blur which tends to smooth out the judder caused by the slow temporal rate of 24fps.

So, bottom line, be sure you are qualified to make pronouncements about which films have the dreaded DNR before doing so, because it seems that few people do……mhafner being the one exception I can think of, off the top of my head.

Now, in regards to the current state of affairs on this subject and as to what I know of it…..working backwards from the Blu-ray encoding /authoring suites to the telecine/D.I. bays. I know of two studios right now (and there may be more) whose tech gurus that oversee this sort of thing are fervent believers of the *philosophy* of no DNR or grain reduction process (if it can at all be avoided) and believe the onus should be on the consumers to do any adjustments pertaining to that desired *look* via settings in their display. This *philosophy* is implemented via guidelines/instructions to the individual technicians involved which is adhered to.

With one major studio, in cases that it is believed that its use (DNR) is unavoidable, the creator or his representative is contacted and permission is obtained before doing so as a matter of strict protocol. This sometimes involves doing test clips to actually demonstrate the before and after effect to the creator or the film’s guardian. This decision is not made in a cavalier fashion and for the most part is believed to be a necessary evil in these situations, provided it's used very carefully and minimally such as a very mild grain-reduction pass through a problem scene that even the grain lovers in the world would perceive as being too “noisy” .

Further on upstream in the pipeline, I already gave an example of grain reduction used in the post production of LOTR………………
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=104

I’m not a fan of DNR (because of possible, resultant visible artifacts) but, sometimes it is unavoidable and clearly intended by the filmmaker.

Another case being……………
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=484

So, point being, DNR or any grain or noise reduction process is a tad more complicated as to the whys and wherefores than a lot of people would make it out to be.

[Penton-Man]

I also received some PM’s in regard to 3D and Blu-ray.
There have been in-house discussions and a recent more diverse *formal* meeting of the minds.

To those interested in this subject, would you be amenable to purchasing a BD 3D Profile player sometime down the line in the future….. or do you feel that technological research and development in this area should be restricted/terminated as to avoid any possible *consumer confusion* regarding a future Profile or intentional *double-dipping* on the part of the C.E. companies?

[The Shrike]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I also received some PM’s in regard to 3D and Blu-ray.
There have been in-house discussions and a recent more diverse *formal* meeting of the minds.

To those interested in this subject, would you be amenable to purchasing a BD 3D Profile player sometime down the line in the future….. or do you feel that technological research and development in this area should be restricted/terminated as to avoid any possible *consumer confusion* regarding a future Profile or intentional *double-dipping* on the part of the C.E. companies?

I am interested in watching movies designed for 3D in 3D, but am totally not interested in the 3Ding old films, like Star Wars. So while I would be interested in 3D BDs for movies that are coming out in the near future, I absolutely DO NOT want 3D BDs for the RoboCop BD I have already purchased. That's the double-dipping line I willl finally, and ultimately, not cross. .02

[androvsky]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I also received some PM’s in regard to 3D and Blu-ray.
There have been in-house discussions and a recent more diverse *formal* meeting of the minds.

To those interested in this subject, would you be amenable to purchasing a BD 3D Profile player sometime down the line in the future….. or do you feel that technological research and development in this area should be restricted/terminated as to avoid any possible *consumer confusion* regarding a future Profile or intentional *double-dipping* on the part of the C.E. companies?

I have a hard time thinking of going 3D as a double-dip; it's too different than the current copies (similar to VHS to DVD wasn't really a double-dip). I think it's a market that needs to explored in a carefully controlled way, rather than risking a new format springing up to cater to 3D**. If it can be done in a way that 3D discs can be required to be playable (with decent 1080p quality) on older 1.0 players, then go for it. Big bonus points if it's done in such a way that the PS3 can be upgraded to handle it (does HDMI have the bandwidth?).

However, I don't think it's a market that needs to be explored right away. I guess by the time the profile is hammered down it'll probably be a good time to release it, but it really doesn't need to be out until fall '09 at the earliest. Give the format a chance to stabilize in consumer's minds a bit.

**Imagine Amir spearheading a 3D-DVD format with Toshiba...

[frank_t]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I also received some PM’s in regard to 3D and Blu-ray.
There have been in-house discussions and a recent more diverse *formal* meeting of the minds.

To those interested in this subject, would you be amenable to purchasing a BD 3D Profile player sometime down the line in the future….. or do you feel that technological research and development in this area should be restricted/terminated as to avoid any possible *consumer confusion* regarding a future Profile or intentional *double-dipping* on the part of the C.E. companies?

i would absolutely purchase a 3d profile player in the future.

but... you guys need to sit back and let profile 2.0 become the norm for a year or two at the least (i.e. we should not see something like a 3d profile until say 2010).

the absolute worst thing blu providers (studios, CEs) could do now is introduce any more confusion in to the mix.

but hell yeah -- keep the R&D going

it may be the *one* thing that will convince me to purchase some of these movies YET again!