"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[H9k_]

Here we go again YEARS after it was brought to attention.

How hard is it or how much could it possible cost to leave the subs in the picture area where they belong in the first place, or include 2 sets of subs so we could chose where to put them?

Any hint at all about the cost of 2 identical (but different position) subs?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Paul H

Kudos to Miramax for the Blu-ray transfer of Kill Bill Volume 1!

Both picture and lossless sound were breathtaking and added to the excitement of the moment as I viewed it projected @ 1080P on a 110" screen.

Have you watched Vol. 2 yet ?
That's my personal fave.
It kinda ties everything together.

Although the song at the beginning of Vol. 1 kinda reminds me of good memories of this event that I attended back in '05.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajduj...eature=related

Sometimes you just can't get a certain tune out of your head.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

............The reality is that usually I would go to a theatre once or twice a year, but I do do BD right (as well as my pocket book can afford) at home and it is not a delusion that chances are that it will look better here then at the theatre. The problem is (and why I said you are as bad as the people you are chastizing) when you say that someone can't be a film afectionado, like quality and beleive they have better A/V at home. Chances are these people (self proclaimed or not) will put in the effort at home to have a proper set-up. (then again I did see a post/review of somoen that was comparing stuff on his small 720p TV and talking about artifacts withought understanding that either his TV or player is downscaling so he has no way of knowing if the artifacts where on the disk or in his set-up)

Anthony,
Before I make a minor correction/addition to your otherwise eloquent response on the linked thread below, I’ve just got to know if by chance you work for Technicolor Montreal………….

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...81&postcount=5

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Although the song at the beginning of Vol. 1 kinda reminds me of good memories of this event that I attended back in '05.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajduj...eature=related

Sometimes you just can't get a certain tune out of your head.

Nancy Sinatra covered it in 1967

Originally it was written by Sonny Bono for Cher

[Eternal_Sunshine]

Originally Posted by H9k_

How hard is it or how much could it possible cost to leave the subs in the picture area where they belong in the first place, or include 2 sets of subs so we could chose where to put them?

Indeed.

Not only is it closer to the theatrical presentation to have the subs in the picture area, it also makes more sense in the home environment.

For folks with 2.40:1 front projection setups (like myself), it's really annoying when the subs are in the "black bars" as they just disappear in the black masking of the screen.

But even for "normal" 16:9 setups like flat panel TVs it's much nicer to have the subs in the picture, because your eyes don't have to move between the picture and the black bars; ideally, in a dark/light controlled environment, those bars shouldn't be visible at all so your full attention is focused on the picture.

As it was so annoying to me, I recently checked all my 2.40:1 Blu-rays to see which studios are the "worst offenders", and the "winners" were Warner Brothers and, sadly, Sony Pictures, while the best studio with a perfect record is Disney

The ratios between good:bad discs (= subs inside : outside picture area) were:
Disney: 14:0
Lionsgate: 3:0
Paramount: 2:0
Fox: 8:3
Sony: 2:12
Warner: 2:15

As there are folks who (inexplicably ) prefer the subs in the black bars, the easiest solution would probably be to include two different subs, at least for the original language of the movie. SPHE actually did this once as a "test", back in the days of the format war when paidgeek was posting on the red ants forum and the same issue was brought up; the disc was "Immortal Beloved" and they called the subs inside the picture area "projector optimized" (see attached picture of the back of the sleeve). I have no idea why SPHE never did this again, as it seems easy enough to just include one more sub...

Penton,
maybe you could contact paidgeek about this? If you have contacts at Warner as well you could talk to about this, I would very much appreciate it!

Moveable subs would be ok as well, of course, but are probably harder to implement.

[H9k_]

And also what happend to download subs?
So far all the films i tested with bd live it is just a bunch of useless gimic

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Have you watched Vol. 2 yet ?
That's my personal fave.
It kinda ties everything together.

Finished Kill Bill Vol. 2 last night.

As I look back I remember being partial to Vol. 2 as well.

Knowing the complete story now, I'm amazed at Quentin Tarantino's genius in conveying the complexity of events.
The excitement being multiplied by the quality of both presentations.

Both films are masterpieces in their own right. Brilliant work!

Paul

[Penton-Man]

Oh Lord, I’ve been alerted to yet another nonsense list on the internet, this time founded by scientists that imply they have a special knowledge of *grain*, transfers, or the Director’s intent.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037935
One could go through this list, almost every fourth or fifth title by title and refute either some of the observations or the conclusions.

For instance, you’ll note that the movie 300 is listed as being in the
“Digital Camera Film List”.

Do these people make this stuff up or is it just a matter of ignorant bliss and having access to a computer? Who contributes this garbage, 5 year-olds?

Regarding 300…………..
The vast majority of the film was shot at high speed, between 50 and 150fps. That was the key reason why the movie was shot on film……in the first place, rather than with a digital camera as incorrectly listed in the thread.
I’ll elaborate on the grain associated with this particular movie later when I’ve got more time.

Then we’ve got this gem of a conclusion and categorization for Black Hawk Down…………………..
“2 negatives for lack of detail and EE throughout” which is under the dubious heading of --
“Film like but minor issues with transfer”

I would suggest the grain *scientists* read this following link for that rare occurrence in which hobbyists were given the opportunity to view the D5 master and the Blu-ray running side by side in synch………………
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showp...29&postcount=1

Specifically relevant is this paragraph……………
“The next clip was of the soon to be released Black Hawk Down (mpeg2, BD50). The D5 master was playing on the left hand screen and the pressed BD disc was playing on the right hand screen via the Samsung BD player. The two were synched so that they were showing the film at the same time and left to run. First up I think that this film will cause quite a bit of controversy. Every other version I have seen of it has a lot of grain, and so does the D5 master. So it shouldn’t be too surprising that the BD version has quite a lot grain also. A comparison between the two versions really did show very little difference. The only real difference that I noticed was the BD version had a little less grain than the D5 did. Assuming that the D5 master is the best version of Black Hawk Down available then it appears that Sony Pictures has done a very good job of transferring it onto Blu Ray disc. Does it look like a shiny new episode of a TV series shot on a HD camera – not really. Does it look like the D5 tape – yes it does.”

I’ll even add to the above that in blinded screenings where observers were not told which was the D5 master and which was the Blu-ray edition, a significant number of viewers actually chose the Blu-ray as being the video master!

Yup, Black Hawk Down definitely has “minor issues with transfer”.
It’s just unbelievable some of the stuff that gets posted over the internet.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Eternal_Sunshine

...........Penton,
maybe you could contact paidgeek about this? If you have contacts at Warner as well you could talk to about this, I would very much appreciate it! ..............

Next time I see him, will do.
I, myself, haven’t kept up with that aspect.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Paul H

Finished Kill Bill Vol. 2 last night.

As I look back I remember being partial to Vol. 2 as well.

Knowing the complete story now, I'm amazed at Quentin Tarantino's genius in conveying the complexity of events.
The excitement being multiplied by the quality of both presentations.

Both films are masterpieces in their own right. Brilliant work!

Paul

You know, they (Vol. 1 and Vol. 2) are truly those rare type of movies that you can actually play over and over again, and upon further viewings, pick up little nuances in what Quentin T. was trying to express--- that you never noticed or realized the first couple of times you watched the movie.

P.S.
For example, Elle's humorous scene in Budd's trailer, where for a few seconds she appears to be channeling John Travolta and, of course, Bill.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Eternal_Sunshine

Penton,
maybe you could contact paidgeek about this?

He logged onto the forum today to specifically read your post …….and others concerning subtitles.

[Anthony P]

Anthony,
Before I make a minor correction/addition to your otherwise eloquent response on the linked thread below, I’ve just got to know if by chance you work for Technicolor Montreal………….

Hi, go ahead and make the correction, and no I don't work at Technicolor, I am just an IT consultant by profession and gadgetboy techno-geek that likes watching movies and discussing AV by hobby

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

Hi, go ahead and make the correction, and no I don't work at Technicolor, I am just an IT consultant by profession and gadgetboy techno-geek that likes watching movies and discussing AV by hobby

Good to know, because it simply has to do with the production of the movie 300, of which Technicolor Montreal was imminently involved and I wouldn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or have anyone get the wrong impression because it was simply a matter of economics, i.e. budgetary concerns and time.

I’ll type the spiel up later and hook it onto the previous post I made above regarding *scientists* , grain, DNR and the intent of filmmakers.

It’s nice to see you’re helping out the newbies on our forum.

[Penton-Man]

Speaking of newbies and such, I’m told that Blu-ray.com continues to grow and GROW with membership.
So, to all newbies (at least of the male gender) I forewarn you now that there is an initiation exercise involved in reading and posting on this particular thread.
It involves………..
1. Trust
2. An eagle eye to avoid potential obstacles

If you qualify for the above, then you won’t suffer from the calamity at the end of this clip and upcoming Blu-ray movie……………
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQWjX5fXbnA

[Anthony P]

It’s nice to see you’re helping out the newbies on our forum.

we were all newbs at some point. Plus I think people need good answers (if newbs help newbs you get todays AVS where anything bigger then 32" is overkill and if you start getting technical or bring up quality the answer is “it does not matter”)

[Eternal_Sunshine]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

He logged onto the forum today to specifically read your post …….and others concerning subtitles.

Wow, that was quick! Thanks a lot, Penton... and a warm welcome back to you, paidgeek! I think I speak for a lot of posters around here when I say we dearly missed you! I for one fondly remember the times way back when you brought some much needed balance and honesty to the insider's thread at the red ants forum... It would be fantastic if you'd come around here and unlock your own insider thread on blu-ray.com from time to time.

Anyways, it would be great if something could be done about the subs issue!

[coolmilo]

Originally Posted by Eternal_Sunshine

and a warm welcome back to you, paidgeek! I think I speak for a lot of posters around here when I say we dearly missed you!

Yeah we are missing him on this forum but we still get to enjoy his work. Anyone take a look at The Fall? What a masterpiece and terrific work by Paidgeek’s team.

Speaking of missing Paidgeek, I really appreciate the education that Penton, Paid, and the Insiders provide us. It’s like we are the students at film school and Paidgeek, Penton and others are our instructors. Is there any chance for college credit guys?

I am having a great Blu-ray week with Kill Bill 1&2 and then “The Fall.” This is what Blu-ray is all about...great movies, great transfers and terrific sound.


Next, I can't wait for Godfather 1&2.

[Eternal_Sunshine]

Originally Posted by coolmilo

Speaking of missing Paidgeek, I really appreciate the education that Penton, Paid, and the Insiders provide us. It’s like we are the students at film school and Paidgeek, Penton and others are our instructors.

Ain't that the truth! And we're on a roll right now as even Max is back and posting some very interesting stuff about DECE in his insider thread...

Originally Posted by coolmilo

Next, I can't wait for Godfather 1&2.

Me too. Especially as Paramount seem to usually put the subs in the right place...

Edit: LOL, I forgot The Godfather movies have an 1.85:1 aspect ratio, so the subs will obviously have to be inside the picture area...

[J6P]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Have you watched Vol. 2 yet ?
That's my personal fave.
It kinda ties everything together.

Although the song at the beginning of Vol. 1 kinda reminds me of good memories of this event that I attended back in '05.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajduj...eature=related

Sometimes you just can't get a certain tune out of your head.

Very nice. And quite tasty to add Hank Mancini's Lujon underneath at about the 1:10 mark, another favorite piece of incidental music, used by the Cohen brothers in The Big Lebowski.

"Nice place, Jackie. Totally unspoiled."

Wait...were we talking about the music?

[saprano]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I’ll even add to the above that in blinded screenings where observers were not told which was the D5 master and which was the Blu-ray edition, a significant number of viewers actually chose the Blu-ray as being the video master!

Now you know thats what i like to hear penton