"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mhafner

- The list is in the first posting of the thread, nowhere else. The rest of the list is for discussion of cases and collecting data. If you would like to correct anything it has to be on the list. The rest is not part of the list.

When you make bold statements like this………………….
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=603

who the hell cares if you ever got around to placing it on “the list” ?
Tell me, did you make that statement after having watched the movie, or was that conclusion reached yet again by internet screenshot “scientific” analysis?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mhafner

I was not in this thread for some time, hence the delay in my reaction.

Then you’ve got more catching up to do and if you don’t believe what Deci or I have posted about ‘screenshots’ and motion pictures, then catch up to speed on posts that you also missed on HTF………

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/3428068-post39.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Dave Mack

Fine, How about a mention to Penton-Man for his unnecessary bash of me whan I haven't even posted about that title anywhere in months?

Did I mention anyone by name, so why are you raising your hand and bringing attention to yourself ?

Is anything that I posted regarding the Dracula *debate* on HTF somehow inaccurate, as I was given this information second-hand but, it was relayed by someone who has a reputation for integrity so I believe it do be factually correct.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Dave Mack

This was really called for?

We get many new readers to our forum on a daily basis whom may not be cognizant of the history of this particular title and its Blu-ray production and then they run over to the *science* forum and get the wrong impression about this title when they scan a thread over there that is what?.... over a year old now but, keeps getting curiously resurrected which also speaks to the judgment of some moderators over there.

Historical perspective is important in terms of this topic (or anything else for that matter) so that new members can make informed, unbiased decisions. For instance, in terms of forums, it is a well known fact among longtime readers that the *science* forum has a core membership of very vocal posters that continue to color their assessments of particular Blu-ray titles in terms of having still not let go of the format war.

On the contrary, I’m told that HTF has moved beyond that nonsensical behavior and believes that everyone should have the right to enjoy their preferred hobby without reading continuous comments from perpetually unhappy people (which are often technically or factually incorrect in the first place).

This post format war attitude starts with the ownership and then filters down to the moderators who lead the membership by example. It’s a pity some other boards have not ‘let it go’.

[mikey p]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Then you’ve got more catching up to do and if you don’t believe what Deci or I have posted about ‘screenshots’ and motion pictures, then catch up to speed on posts that you also missed on HTF………

One quick question please, when a studio uses a "on location/studio" shot in their adverts, is it a screencap, OR a still shot from a company still photog on film, 35mm or 2-1/4 sq, what-ever? Thanks for any comment on this.

I'm not sure even digital was meant to be looked at frame by frame as if they were taken by a say Nikon D3, Canon hi-end, or super hi-end Hassy, please correct me if I got this wrong.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mikey p

One quick question please, when a studio uses a "on location/studio" shot in their adverts, is it a screencap, OR a still shot from a company still photog on film, 35mm or 2-1/4 sq, what-ever? Thanks for any comment on this.

lol, you’re kidding right?

What difference does it make in the end, as it aint anything like what you started with...............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYhCn...eature=related

[Penton-Man]

On a different note, regarding the Bond issue (i.e. some “shaken not stirred” movies that not playing or not playing correctly without some re-booting gymnastics)……..

there will be a firmware release coming out tomorrow or next week that will take care of this for the affected Sony players.

[mikey p]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

On a different note, regarding the Bond issue (i.e. some “shaken not stirred” movies that not playing or not playing correctly without some re-booting gymnastics)……..

there will be a firmware release coming out tomorrow or next week that will take care of this for the affected Sony players.

Sony posted Version 4.30 for the S-300 on the open support site, it was there this morning, thanks for the heads up.

Edit, loaded all OK, I've tried three of the six all loaded and played, it's slow v.s. my Panny HD30 and 35, but looks like they got the issue licked. Thanks.

[wojo]

Hello Penton-man,

Sorry to make my first posting on this site sound rather
negative, but would you happen to know whether Warner
plans to make delivering vastly inferior audio tracks for
all Languages other than English a habit on their catalog
titles, and if so whether there is a realistic chance to
encourage them to rethink that decision ?

I don’t expect every third tire movie to get Disneys
Sleeping Beauty 7.1 Dts Hd for everything treatment
But all the 2.0 tracks and especially the Italian track in
G(l)orious 1.0 on the Poltergeist BD make me worry if
this is just a glimpse of things to come, and if WB think
that it’s ok now to slap sub VHS tracks on their releases
for us peons not living in the US after the competing
format has gone the way of the dodo.

No offence meant, but people go gung ho on this site
over studios not using lossless audio, and Warner seems
to expect its Italian customers to be happy with one
channel ? Can’t be true, can it ?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by wojo

Hello Penton-man,

Sorry to make my first posting on this site sound rather
negative, but would you happen to know whether Warner
plans to make delivering vastly inferior audio tracks for
all Languages other than English a habit on their catalog
titles, and if so whether there is a realistic chance to
encourage them to rethink that decision ?...........

Welcome to the forum ……………and no need to apologize as there is nothing wrong with constructive criticism with moderation.

For the most part, Jeff Kleist (Digital Bits) has been the liaison officer between this forum and WB regarding all Blu-ray video and audio issues. I’ll defer to him, Max or RAH.
Each may be able to offer a little contribution on the subject.

[Penton-Man]

Now that wojo has my European thinking cap on………….

Are there any Blu-ray freaks here that are fans of this movie ?……………..
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=1798

which boasts this fabulous soundtrack…………
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwW_qLoRPSc

I have a tidbit to offer.

[kpkelley]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Now that wojo has my European thinking cap on………….

Are there any Blu-ray freaks here that are fans of this movie ?……………..
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=1798

which boasts this fabulous soundtrack…………
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwW_qLoRPSc

I have a tidbit to offer.

I've got it pre-ordered if that's what your asking?

[aygie]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Now that wojo has my European thinking cap on………….

Are there any Blu-ray freaks here that are fans of this movie ?……………..
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=1798

which boasts this fabulous soundtrack…………
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwW_qLoRPSc

I have a tidbit to offer.

I love Nikita, and surprisingly its remake the Assassin.

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Now that wojo has my European thinking cap on………….

Are there any Blu-ray freaks here that are fans of this movie ?……………..
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=1798

which boasts this fabulous soundtrack…………
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwW_qLoRPSc

I have a tidbit to offer.

..

[Jeff Kleist]

Sorry to make my first posting on this site sound rather
negative, but would you happen to know whether Warner
plans to make delivering vastly inferior audio tracks for
all Languages other than English a habit on their catalog
titles, and if so whether there is a realistic chance to
encourage them to rethink that decision ?...........

Expecially on the older 80s films, including anything other than 1.0 or 2.0 would require redubbing the entire movie. They simply don't have the isolated dialog around to incorporate into another mix. The cost/benefit ratio is simply too expensive to go back to the studio and redub and remix these films.

[horseflesh]

I love Nikita, and Mrs Horseflesh does even moreso.
So in election week, as Walter Mondale would say.....what's the beef??

[wojo]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Expecially on the older 80s films, including anything other than 1.0 or 2.0 would require redubbing the entire movie. They simply don't have the isolated dialog around to incorporate into another mix. The cost/benefit ratio is simply too expensive to go back to the studio and redub and remix these films.

Ouch, that hurts, but thanks for the quick answer.

Well... what remains slightly irritating is that others do
manage on a regular basis. Life of Brian, space odyssey,
Blade Runner, Ce3K, Sleeping Beauty, just to name a few
out of my collection. All old movies, some considerably
older than Poltergeist, jet all remastered to 5.1 or even
7.1 for every language present.

Warner themselves sometimes even remaster to 5.1
when it´s debatable whether they should rather not
like e.g. Chaplin’s Great Dictator on DVD, as long as
it’s the english track they are working on.
I honestly doubt they had huge ammounts of isolated
dialog for that one, didn’t stop them apparently, it´s
just when other languages are concerned that the red
pencil seems to get the better of them.

Now Warner certainly isn’t the only company delivering
everything but english in reduced quality. Fox and Disney
do it as well, but with them a still great lossy encode is
the very worst I have seen so far, going to such an
extent of inferiority for all other languages in what is
supposed to be a European release is simply something
I have never before experienced on any BD, and I would
rather not see this become commonplace.

...well I guess ranting won’t help matters any, so I better
stop now, it´s not like I´m gnawing on a deserving leg
anyway.

[Bobby Henderson]

Wojo, I'm a little confused over what is being requested.

Are you merely wanting more multichannel 5.1 audio tracks for languages other than English? Or are you wanting multiple multichannel 5.1/6.1/7.1 tracks in lossless or uncompressed audio formats?

I don't have a huge number of Blu-ray discs in my collection and the few Warner Bros. titles I do have all feature 5.1 channel audio tracks in multiple languages. For example, my copy of Full Metal Jacket, a 20+ year old 1980s movie has uncompressed LPCM 5.1 English and Dolby Digital 5.1 tracks in English, French, German and Italian. It has 13 subtitle language tracks! Geez. Have fun thumbing through that if you accidentally turn on the subtitle button! Hehe.

Perhaps all this just goes on a title by title basis. Some movies are going to get a bare bones treatment while others get a bit more work thrown into them.

IMHO, it may be a bit unreasonable to include lossless multichannel tracks in more than a couple languages for what it takes away from overall available bandwidth. Region 1 discs will pretty much see a model of "English 5.1 Dolby TrueHD" and everything else will be lossy multichannel or stereo.

[Jeff Kleist]

Well... what remains slightly irritating is that others do
manage on a regular basis. Life of Brian, space odyssey,
Blade Runner, Ce3K, Sleeping Beauty, just to name a few
out of my collection. All old movies, some considerably
older than Poltergeist, jet all remastered to 5.1 or even
7.1 for every language present.

The age doesn't matter as much as whether they can find the tapes, and how much money they have to go looking for them. With a major restoration project like Blade Runner they literally spent the better part of a decade pawing through negatives. Disney animated films are probably the most likely to be sent back for a redub becaue they just make so much money

The best suggestion I can make for you is to get used to subtitles, that way you're guaranteed the best available audio.

What Bobby says is also correct, the Italian market, like many is quite small under the best of circumstances. The likelyhood of actually getting lossless Italian dubbing is quite low simply because even with TrueHD or DTS Master you start impacting disc space negatively after the third track or so.

[wojo]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

Wojo, I'm a little confused over what is being requested.

Are you merely wanting more multichannel 5.1 audio tracks for languages other than English? Or are you wanting multiple multichannel 5.1/6.1/7.1 tracks in lossless or uncompressed audio formats?

I don't have a huge number of Blu-ray discs in my collection and the few Warner Bros. titles I do have all feature 5.1 channel audio tracks in multiple languages. For example, my copy of Full Metal Jacket, a 20+ year old 1980s movie has uncompressed LPCM 5.1 English and Dolby Digital 5.1 tracks in English, French, German and Italian. It has 13 subtitle language tracks! Geez. Have fun thumbing through that if you accidentally turn on the subtitle button! Hehe.

Perhaps all this just goes on a title by title basis. Some movies are going to get a bare bones treatment while others get a bit more work thrown into them.

IMHO, it may be a bit unreasonable to include lossless multichannel tracks in more than a couple languages for what it takes away from overall available bandwidth. Region 1 discs will pretty much see a model of "English 5.1 Dolby TrueHD" and everything else will be lossy multichannel or stereo.

Sorry for mixing up two issues here Bobby, I’ll try to clarify then.

You are right, just like Full Metal Jacket, all and every one of
the 100+ Region B releases I have bought up until now did feature
multichannel sound for all included language tracks, including all of
the 80s movies, and by now I basically took it for granted that a
remix would be done if no 5.1 track was available.

Imagine my surprise when the European release of poltergeist only
had stereo sound for German, French and Spanish, and mono for Italian.
I actually went through my whole setup before it even occurred to me
that this might be how the disc was encoded.

That’s the main Issue I am commenting on, an while it may now be
an isolated one, and Warner might have simply been unable to get
the data needed for a remix of the concerned tracks, it makes the
disc stand out like a sore thumb, and will reflect badly on everyone
involved should it become the usual way of releasing catalog titles.

Now to the second issue I mentioned, is quite a smaller one, namely
the lossy tracks. If you look at Sony’s Region B releases, they will
not usually pack masses of tracks on the disk. It’s usually 3 tracks
including English all in Dolby TruHD 5.1 so there shouldn’t be a space
issue.

I do realize that there is a bigger market for the English language
around the world than for most others, but I also think it’s not
unreasonable to tap Warner on the shoulder and tell them " Those
Sony guys are doing a better Job in the audio department overseas,
how about beefing up?"

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

The age doesn't matter as much as whether they can find the tapes, and how much money they have to go looking for them. With a major restoration project like Blade Runner they literally spent the better part of a decade pawing through negatives. Disney animated films are probably the most likely to be sent back for a redub becaue they just make so much money

The best suggestion I can make for you is to get used to subtitles, that way you're guaranteed the best available audio.

What Bobby says is also correct, the Italian market, like many is quite small under the best of circumstances. The likelyhood of actually getting lossless Italian dubbing is quite low simply because even with TrueHD or DTS Master you start impacting disc space negatively after the third track or so.

Well yes, I guess it can’t be helped then, its just that I got more or
less used to the studios taking extra strides with their BD releases
during the last years, and then the Poltergeist BD simply sounds like
while the English track got remastered and polished to near perfection
the others received no effort at all. Like I told Bobby Henderson, I
first went on a search about which part of my setup had croaked.

I have to disagree about the lossless Issue though. I don’t expect
Italian lossless sound either, despite Sony actually doing even that
(Waterhorse had one ) I wouldn’t even understand it, I just used
Italian as an example because seeing a mono track on a BD just felt
so glaringly bizarre to me, it’s just so against everything advertised.

Many Region B releases do have lossless language tracks. Sony do
deliver lossless language tracks for all of their Region B releases I
have seen so far, 3 per disc, so more power to them.
Concorde does it, some early Fox titles did that as well, with two
HD-MA tracks, and others like Constantin, despite not going lossless
do give all the language tracks on their Region B discs equal DTS-HD
treatment. It can be done, at least for day and date releases, if a
Studio respects it’s european customers.

These might be shining examples, but I would rather have the rest
of the studios follow them than the other way around simply because
lossless audio is one of BD´s big selling points and I have jet to see
a commercials saying " Only lossless in English, the rest of you -
tough.", so I think it’s not completely unreasonable to ask some
studios to live up to the expectations when others already do.