"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

Thanks for the explanation Keith. Nice to see you around.

Ditto.

[aramis109]

I'm not sure who to direct this to, so Penton if this isn't one you can help with, hopefully you'll not mind.

It seems that a lot of the digital copies of movies (The Incredible Hulk, Juno, The Matrix, Constantine, etc) seem to have an expiration date on the codes.

"Code that permits activation of Digital Copy may not be valid after 10/31/09".

Do they truly expire and are no longer usable? So, if someone buys one after the date, the disc is no good? Can someone contact the studios and see what the deal is here?

Appreciate your interaction here as always.

[Jeff Kleist]

Originally Posted by aramis109

I'm not sure who to direct this to, so Penton if this isn't one you can help with, hopefully you'll not mind.

It seems that a lot of the digital copies of movies (The Incredible Hulk, Juno, The Matrix, Constantine, etc) seem to have an expiration date on the codes.



Do they truly expire and are no longer usable? So, if someone buys one after the date, the disc is no good? Can someone contact the studios and see what the deal is here?

Appreciate your interaction here as always.

I was told that this is basically a minimum time that registering them would be supported if things didn't work out

[ra1024]

I haven't been here in a while so I hope this hasn't been mentioned. I searched but couldn't find anything so I wanted to ask about the shaky cam use I've read a lot about.

I was so disappointed to hear how every action shot in QOS used the drunken camera man approach. I haven't seen it but a lot of people on various forums are saying it's so bad that it's hard to tell what's happenning in the fight scenes.

I really like the first Bourne movie but was turned off big time in the latter ones with the shaky cam effect. I really don't understand why it's supposed to be better when you can hardly tell what's happening.

I was very eagerly awaiting QOS but I'm going to pass at this point. Penton, is this going to be the norm for a while? I can't understand why Sony would let a big franchise like this use such a cheap effect that turns off a lot of people.

Please tell me this isn't a sign of things to come.

[Penton-Man]

Sorry, no can do because I believe it is a current stylistic trend having its roots in some action television shows.
I completely sympathize with you as I also personally hate it and have actually commented on the practice earlier…………………
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...089#post908089

Sitting about 1 ½ PH away from my screen in my home theater upstairs, watching long sequences of shaky cam……… is the one visual attribute that *takes me out of a movie* quicker than any other creative or technical cinematographic/post production technique that I can think of. My personal next on the “most undesirable list” being overuse of close-ups, which also seems to be a current rage with younger lensers and Directors.

P.S. -
F.Y.I. – Some of the team from the Bourne flicks were used during the QoS shoot.

[kpkelley]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Sorry, no can do because I believe it is a current stylistic trend having its roots in some action television shows.

I personally thought that this trend had it's roots in the action sequences from the LOTR trilogy. What makes the LOTR trilogy different though was that there was almost always an establishing shot that would frame the action.

[ra1024]

Well I'm glad to hear I'm not alone in hating this new fad but sad to hear it's not likely to be going away soon. I truly can't understand why someone would think this makes the film better by making it hard to see what's going on.

I read your comments in the previous post and having watched the Shield for several seasons, I can say I never consciously noticed the shaky cam effect. I think that says more about how it's subtle use can be stylistic versus the overuse in the latter Bourne movies.

I remember one fight scene that was so hard to follow it could have just been shot in the dark and had the same effect. I also remember a scene where 2 people were sitting at a table and the camera was moving all around making it frustrating to try and just watch the scene.

The crazy thing about this is that I read lots of people who hate it, others who say it doesn't bother them, but almost none who love it and say they're excited to hear a movie was shot that way. Why as a producer would you make a movie with an effect that will turn off a large portion of your audience without having a positive effect on others?

[Brain Sturgeon]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Sitting about 1 ½ PH away from my screen in my home theater upstairs, watching long sequences of shaky cam……… is the one visual attribute that *takes me out of a movie* quicker than any other creative or technical cinematographic/post production technique that I can think of.

I think I'm still getting over the nausea and headache from watching Cloverfield in my home theater.

I didn't mind the use of it in Saving Private Ryan where it was used to great effect in the chaotic opening scene, but I don't remember too many other times when I thought it was put to good use, including the Bourne trilogy.

[Bobby Henderson]

I personally thought that this trend had it's roots in the action sequences from the LOTR trilogy.

Certain early 1990s television series, such as NYPD Blue and Homicide are largely responsible for making shaky-cam fashionable. Some may not remember the movie Shakes, The Clown -but I always liked insulting overly shaky camera work with phrases like, "this movie was filmed by Shakes, The Cameraman, A.S.C."

I hated The Bourne Supremacy for the horrible over-use of shaky camera work combined with murky low lighting levels and shots zoomed way in too tight during certain fight scenes. The viewer could hardly tell what the hell was happening until the scene was over. If that's the effect the director wanted, he succeeded -but he pissed off quite a few audience members in the process. Get a freaking tripod, stupid!!

[Mr_Bester]

Originally Posted by ra1024

Well I'm glad to hear I'm not alone in hating this new fad but sad to hear it's not likely to be going away soon. I truly can't understand why someone would think this makes the film better by making it hard to see what's going on...

It makes it easier to hide poor fight choreography. If you can't really tell what's going on, you can't see screw-ups.

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Mr_Bester

It makes it easier to hide poor fight choreography. If you can't really tell what's going on, you can't see screw-ups.

I find it effective in certain situations, assuming it's done well. The Bourne Supremacy was really a mess, and it was very tough to see what was going on. The Bourne Ultimatum, on the other hand, featured a much-improved version of it, and that movie had some amazing fight sequences. The trick in Ultimatum, in my opinion at least, is that the camera stops moving frequently enough for you to have no problem seeing what is going on, but still moves enough (and in the right ways) so that you feel involved in the action.

[mhafner]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Perhaps to jog your online memory, scan down to line item #34, where whilst at Technique (your favorite past post house ), Stephen did not “turn the dnr knob up to 11”, after the client (Schwartzman) left the grading session as John; likewise, sat in on each and every session until completion..............for if Stephen had done such a thing, he never would have gotten to work on the films listed from #33 upwards to #1.

Whoever did it, the HD-DVD does not have the DNR of the print I saw. Are you trying to convince me they have the same DNR and I can't trust my eyes?

[mhafner]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

lol, Michel, you still here?
I haven’t had the time to even read past the first paragraph of your long *I’m back post* on the last page.

I'm afraid the least you have to do is actually read what I say or we are wasting our time here (we as in you and me). And the second thing I expect from you are sound arguments, and a meaningful discussion. I'm rather immune to claims and assertions that make little to no sense. And the best way to lose credibility in my eyes is to spread propaganda, show clear biases or start patronizing me. If you are right I have no problem saying so. If you are not I have no problem as well. If you haven't too we can have a fruitful exchange. Otherwise I'm out of here for good. Life is too short. So many other things to enjoy and learn about...

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mhafner

Whoever did it, the HD-DVD does not have the DNR of the print I saw.

The fact is, as with the vast, vast majority of films that have gone through the DI process, with the feature film Seabiscuit, there is only one and I repeat one digital intermediate from which all the 35mm. release prints as well as the HD masters were sourced.
(with the exception of short test D.I.’s as noted in the addendum below).

So, the excessive digital noise reduction (or what you thought was digital noise reduction) that you complained about on the 35mm. release print, had already been baked in at the DI level and it should therefore be apparent in every type of deliverable…… be it for high-def home media or theatrical use.

You just can’t get rid of excessive dnr once its been baked in during the digital intermediate process but, you can make it a little less noticeable with your other most favorite pre-processing encoder tool…………sharpening, i.e. - edge enhancement.
Perhaps the HD DVD has had some sharpening applied that you still haven’t discovered?

I don’t know but, if you’re so inclined……. happy hunting while re-watching the HD DVD rendition again, this time with a magnifying glass.

Addendum
Prior to production, Schwartzman shot a series of test scenes with five racehorses. Unbeknownst to any of the facilities involved, this essentially was a comparative test at the outset to determine which DI facility would win the contract and the Super 35 test footage was run through digital intermediate processes at Technique (now Technicolor DI), EFilm and Cinesite. None of this limited test footage made it into the final cut........it was pre-production testing.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mhafner

Are you trying to convince me they have the same DNR and I can't trust my eyes?

I’m not trying to convince you of anything, I gave up on that long time ago.
I’m answering you as a vehicle to provide a learning experience for other readers on this forum.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mhafner

I'm afraid the least you have to do is actually read what I say or we are wasting our time here (we as in you and me).....

Let’s get something straight.
Don’t flatter yourself into thinking that you are ENTITLED to it being my responsibility to read each and every one of your posts to conclusion.
There is no member entitlement here like with Social Security, Medicare, etc.

I post here invariably as a sacrifice of my time to either my professional or personal (family) obligations. I don’t get paid for this and neither do any of the other insiders. I would hope that you would be more appreciative of the fact that you have received from me some rather sensitive and cutting edge news or industry information over the course of time.....

not to mention much more technically accurate info than the hopeless speculative observations and theories presented and incessantly hyped way out of proportion on your favorite *science* forum--which even many of the movie reviewers (that used to read that forum) are now dismissing as a fringe group of video lunatics.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mhafner

.......Otherwise I'm out of here for good.

Fine, in that case, don’t let the door hit you on the way out !

I don't respond well to threats.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Hey Guys,
.......trying to get out the door on time to attend an awards thing at the Skirball this evening.

On a more positive note……………….
The winners of the 2008 Hollywood Post Alliance Awards are:

Outstanding Color Grading - Feature Film in a DI Process
“Iron Man”
Steven J. Scott // EFilm

Outstanding Color Grading - Television
“Pushing Daisies - The Fun in Funerals”
Joe Hathaway // LaserPacific Media Corporation

Outstanding Color Grading - Commercial
Jaguar “XF Hush”
Alex Bickel // Outside Editorial

Outstanding Editing - Feature Film
“The Dark Knight”
Lee Smith, A.C.E.

Outstanding Editing - Television
“Pushing Daisies - Pie-Lette”
Stuart Bass, A.C.E

Outstanding Editing- Commercial
Jaguar “XF Hush”
Neil Gust // Outside Editorial

Outstanding Audio Post- Feature Film
“Wall-E”
Ben Burtt // Pixar Animation Studios
Tom Myers, Michael Semanick and Matthew Wood // Skywalker Sound

Outstanding Audio Post - Television
“CSI: Crime Scene Investigation - Cockroaches”
Mace Matiosian, Ruth Adelman, David Vanslyke, Bill Smith, Yuri Reese and Jivan Tahmizian // Todd-AO

Outstanding Audio Post- Commercial
Audi RS6 “Gymnast”
Tony Rapaccioli and Warren Hamilton // Wave Recording Studios and Tonic

Outstanding Compositing - Commercial
Pontiac “Shwayze”
Patrick Poulatian and Robert Sethi // Brickyard VFX

SPECIAL AWARDS:
The Charles S. Swartz Award for Outstanding Contribution in the Field of Post Production:
Elizabeth Daley, Dean, University of Southern California School of Cinematic Arts

Lifetime Achievement Award:
Ron Burdett

Engineering Excellence Award:
Quantel
FastSoft
Panasonic

Judges Award for Creativity and Innovation in Post Production:
DigitalFilm Tree and CBS
aIM - Laser pacific
Sony Pictures Imageworks

**********
Of special note/elaboration regarding the above, Sony Pictures Imageworks received their Award for Creativity and Innovation in Post Production for developing the stereoscopic 3-D postproduction pipeline used to produce Beowulf.

And to those budding cinematographers out there, LaserPacific received their Award for Creativity and Innovation in Post Production for a color calibrated end-to-end motion picture process that provides Digital Cinema quality dailies that look like film.

Something that Richard Crudo has been a long-term advocate of……………
http://www.ascmag.com/magazine_dynam...ghts/page1.php

[ThatArtGuy]

There is no member entitlement here like with Social Security, Medicare, etc.

I'm just glad I got your Spider-Man set.

[GoYanks]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

SPECIAL AWARDS:
The Charles S. Swartz Award for Outstanding Contribution in the Field of Post Production:
Elizabeth Daley, Dean, University of Southern California School of Cinematic Arts

Hey, that's my dean! It's good to see she's getting rewarded for all her great contributions. Do you know what this was for specifically?