"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by GabrielB

Thanks for your answer Penton. I appreciate it.....
Now there is this project we're working on that is becoming like a test platform. We'd really like to nail this add grain stuff. (we're working from RED digital capture)...........

Gabriel, if you want native and completely natural film grain, then just print out to film using 2k or 4k from RED master in DPX/Cineon compression.

For some reason, if you guys want to add grain to the RED capture itself, then I would use Shake with Filmlight's plug-in TrueLight Kodak Vision Premier and then add a Film Grain filter of your choosing, as I stated before. It’s economical for a small establishment.

If you need more detail on these procedures, based on your particular equipment, I would post queries somewhere here………………
http://forums.creativecow.net/forums.php

or, if you need a specific answer regarding enhancing the RED master with grain, then you might want to give these folks a call………..
http://www.4alphadogs.com/

Hope that helps.

[Bobby Henderson]

Shake 4.1 is available from Apple for $499. That's quite a bargain compared to the previous $4999 price it formerly commanded.

If you don't have a Mac-based work flow, FilmLight's Truelight plug in is available for After Effects, Nuke and Fusion.

I don't know where Adobe is on the progress of creating native 2K and 4K Red Camera support for Adobe Production Studio applications. It's at least in the works. I have the new CS4 Production Studio suite. It's pretty nice, although my uses for it are different than cinema production tasks. The suite does demand quite a bit more computer horsepower and a really good OpenGL card if you're going to do 3D work in PhotoshopCS4 and other apps. One really nice thing is they finally have true multi-monitor support built into applications like Illustrator and Flash Professional.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by dred

The info and knowledge I've gained from this site is huge. Having Insiders and people who know what they're talking about is great. I check a few threads everyday and I tend to keep my fingers quiet most of the time. Penton seems to be the man in the know with Sony, so I hope this is the right club to crash. Today, between bong hits, I went and purchased Pineapple Express from Columbia Pictures. I know us hippies might be dirty folk, but I didn't appreciate the Digital Copy and BD Live sticker to be under the cellophane and on the case itself. Our pits and our clothes may be dirty, but please, not our BD cases. With that being said, I do love Blu-Ray and since buying a PS3 last year, we've bought another Blu player and 2 new tv's and replaced the basement audio system just to keep up with the format. Thanks for the work. Now, back to my bong.

Here's a heads up.
Nick and Norah is a good title, but they stickered the package before we started working on low tack stickers. It's been addressed for future titles but can't be helped for that one.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by dred

I know us hippies might be dirty folk....Now, back to my bong.

I assume you’re either smoking it for medicinal purposes or are a hippy from Mendocino County?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#28842999
If the later, then you’re probably rolling in the dough by now, so buy more Blu-rays with some of the revenue from your newly found entrepreneurial endeavor and help grow the economy and not just the plants.
P.S.
If that preliminary Valtrex commercial is still running prior to the essence of the video clip , I am not “one of the five”.

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I love the symbolism of streeting a Blu-ray before a DVD and I would hope that Disney promotes that difference (at least subtly) in their television advertisements for the Bolt title, in order to highlight that preferential fact to the mainstream public so as to bring further visibility to the Blu-ray format in these harsh economic times.

This isn't the first time. I thought there was experiment by another studio last year with BD being released before DVD.

Were any results of this experiment ever announced (leaked)?

My personal opinion is that anyone releasing DVD prior to BD is doing all parties a disservice; e.g. BSG

[Jeff Kleist]

Be Kind Rewind's early date was a misprint

[ht_skinny]

How do you get a movie script read and bought?

[Ben]

Originally Posted by ht_skinny

How do you get a movie script read and bought?

Golly! That's a question that whole books have been devoted to!

There's no single method, but the basis of selling any script is, of course, to write one that's so good, that it almost sells itself. You'll also need an agent who really has the ability to get your scrip in front of decision-makers at studios. Of course, you could always write it, film (or video) it and then enter it into a film festival. That's a good way to get it noticed. For every item I just listed, there are 1000 other ways. It's a game, it's a business and it is extremely competitive.

Oh yes, also remember that what you are writing has to be paid for. So, if you write something that can't be made for anything less than an astronomical budget, then your chances are slim there as well.

Or, you could just write porn.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

If that preliminary Valtrex commercial is still running prior to the essence of the video clip , I am not “one of the five”.

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Gabriel, if you want native and completely natural film grain, then just print out to film using 2k or 4k from RED master in DPX/Cineon compression.

For some reason, if you guys want to add grain to the RED capture itself, then I would use Shake with Filmlight's plug-in TrueLight Kodak Vision Premier and then add a Film Grain filter of your choosing, as I stated before. It’s economical for a small establishment.

May I add that if one is going to attempt the Premier route, that testing, testing, testing is necessary, checking LADs with every test, and working very closely with your lab.

While 93 is a terrific product, it does have certain technical anomalies, and an occasionally almost chameleon-like personality based upon how a negative is shot / created as far a pulling down blacks far below where one might wish them to be. Keep a very watchful eye on the thinnest areas of one's negative, and that portion of the print which "should be" just a bit of air above black.

This is a stock that one really needs to understand before you use it. That noted, when the homework is done, the results can be exceedingly positive.

RAH

[GabrielB]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Hope that helps.

Thank you to Penton, Bobby Henderson and Mr. Harris for your kind input.
We will continue our investigations elsewhere, I'm just happy to have gotten your advice.

Here in Montreal (Canada) we have a lot of top-notch people working in the business (there is also a lot of Hollywood shooting here). But for some reason we have had trouble finding the right solution for us.

We've been told also that printing to film can be tricky and we plan on "using" different "film stocks" for different projects so that's why we were leaning towards the digital route.

On se les gèle ici!
siaonara

[GabrielB]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

May I add that if one is going to attempt the Premier route, that testing, testing, testing is necessary, checking LADs with every test, and working very closely with your lab.

While 93 is a terrific product, it does have certain technical anomalies, and an occasionally almost chameleon-like personality based upon how a negative is shot / created as far a pulling down blacks far below where one might wish them to be. Keep a very watchful eye on the thinnest areas of one's negative, and that portion of the print which "should be" just a bit of air above black.

This is a stock that one really needs to understand before you use it. That noted, when the homework is done, the results can be exceedingly positive.

RAH

Hello Mr. Harris,

Thank you for your input.
Just a quick question. Have you had to use digital software to regrain some shots during restoration projects? If so how do you find the results compare to genuine film grain emulsion?

Reading two of your posts here:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...06#post1534606
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...25#post1525925

You seemed to imply if well done it could be indistinguishable. Am I correctly interpreting?


And, if we go to the digital route, any software or plug-in combinations you would recommend?

My gratitude and all the best,
Gabriel

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

May I add that if one is going to attempt the Premier route, that testing, testing, testing is necessary, checking LADs with every test, and working very closely with your lab.

While 93 is a terrific product.......
RAH

Your contributions/additions are always welcome Robert.
Bobby H. too.
For people who may not be following the discussion…….. by “93”, Robert is referring to Kodak Eastman 5293 in Filmlight’s plug-in.

I’ve always been a big advocate of testing and QCing changes at every phase of the process, as was done for example, by FotoKem who used an 18 ft. screen with a DCI compliant digital cinema projector as the display device to asses each step of their work for producing an HD master for the Blu-ray Baraka.

By “work” I mean the 16 to 1 down conversion ratio from the original files, the use of power windows and mattes to fix problems secondary to wear and tear of the OCN, de-flickering, flare removal, or other problems which originated from the camera itself.
All this being discussed at a recent past Hollywood section meeting for motion picture and television engineers ………………..

http://www.hsmpte.org/2009%20Meeting...013%202009.htm

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by GabrielB

Hello Mr. Harris,

Thank you for your input.
Just a quick question. Have you had to use digital software to regrain some shots during restoration projects? If so how do you find the results compare to genuine film grain emulsion?.........

Gabriel, you can probably answer that yourself just by recounting your own personal viewing of all films combining live action film capture with 3d animation (think of the later as your RED master).
To make it look real, the filmmakers had to have done one of two things during post, namely,

#1 Degrain the live footage prior to combining the layers then add grain later.
Or
#2 Add grain just to the layer you created artificially.
^ which was done with this,
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...80#post1442580

[juanell]

Penton,

The special features on the recently anounced Dr.Strangelove 45th anniversary look identical to the 40th anniversary edition.Will the transfer use the same source as that edition or will the restored master you mentioned a while back be used? Thanks in advance.

juanell

[Penton-Man]

Hi Juanell,
The Blu-ray edition will use an HD master derived from the 4k restoration done following (i.e. after) the release of the 40th anniversary DVD edition. Proprietary LUTs were formulated which ensured that the HD master of the film retained the same look of the restored film master.

So, in a nutshell, the answer to your question is ………the later, meaning the 45th anniversary Blu-ray will be sourced from the restoration.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Proprietary LUTs........

What’s a LUT?

Click here and view Loren’s explanation alongside a pic recognized by longtime faithful members of this forum-
http://etconsult.com/papers/LUT%20-T...termediate.pdf

[juanell]

wow! my brain will be spinning for days after the LUT explanation.Im curious, how does RGB correspond to a black and white film.Thanks once again.

Juanell

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by GabrielB

Just a quick question. Have you had to use digital software to regrain some shots during restoration projects? If so how do you find the results compare to genuine film grain emulsion?

Generally undetectable. For the record, we do not go through exercises in grain change for the sake of creating something different. It is part of the restoration process, in leveling out grain and focus between not only disparate elements of different generations, but also in dealing with frames covered by mylar and other tapes, creating focus problems.

RAH

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Your contributions/additions are always welcome Robert.
Bobby H. too.
For people who may not be following the discussion…….. by “93”, Robert is referring to Kodak Eastman 5293 in Filmlight’s plug-in.

Actually I'm referring to the print stock itself. In the final analysis during color, we did not use the 93 "plug-in," but rather a proprietary LUT created by MPI for our project, which gave more accurate results toward our specific needs.

RAH