"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[phansson]

My favorite format war quote was from Amir,

"HD DVD is going to be around for a long time."

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by phansson

My favorite format war quote was from Amir,

"HD DVD is going to be around for a long time."

Its possible MS could use it for the 360 2 or 720.

[Bobby Henderson]

MS using HD-DVD technology in the next generation of XBox would involve paying Toshiba a handsome amount of money in licensing fees. The HD-DVD format may be dead commercially, but any patents, copyrights and trademarks are still valid for decades to come. None of the technology is "public domain" at all.

Just my opinion, but I think it would be flat out STUPID for any game console manufacturer to produce a next generation platform without including Blu-ray compatibility as well as movie/multi-media streaming to built in or attached hard discs. It would just be laughably retarded.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

MS using HD-DVD technology in the next generation of XBox would involve paying Toshiba a handsome amount of money in licensing fees. The HD-DVD format may be dead commercially, but any patents, copyrights and trademarks are still valid for decades to come. None of the technology is "public domain" at all.

Just my opinion, but I think it would be flat out STUPID for any game console manufacturer to produce a next generation platform without including Blu-ray compatibility as well as movie/multi-media streaming to built in or attached hard discs. It would just be laughably retarded.

IF MS is gung ho about moving to downloads....

that could be their undoing for their next system.

[phansson]

Originally Posted by merrick97

Its possible MS could use it for the 360 2 or 720.

It would be more likely that they (MS) would integrate Blu Ray into their systems before performing CPR on HD DVD.

[Jeff Kleist]

Does anyone know if the warranties have run out on those HD DVD players yet and for how long into the future Toshiba will support that product in case of needed repair or replacement parts?

Industry standard would be 7 years.

However, they have piles of players left over. They don't even fix them, they just ship out a new one.

Its possible MS could use it for the 360 2 or 720.

MS will NOT use it for their next console, which will, as things stand now have a disc drive

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I see one member over there now is constantly belly aching and trying to cause stir about what he claims is the lack of classic and older movies on Blu-ray. If memory serves me, a couple of years back, this particular individual had Amir and other red ants once out to his house for an HD DVD party. You never have to look very far.

With sales for classic titles not being high enough to support top notch transfers for a lot of titles I would rather have a few very good classic releases than manymediocre ones. Now I have HD-DVDs of Spartacus and Battle of the Bulge for example that I consider too weak to enjoy - I'd rather have one title of the quality we got with The Professionals or The Sand Pebbles than 5 titles that get the Spartacus treatment.

It would however be nice if studios would consider to release more movies where they already have new HD transfers. For example Sony to my knowledge has new HiDef transfers for all of the titles of the Boetticher collection and judging by one of the titles that was aired in the UK they look pretty good in HD. As they are very short it would be possible to release them as SL versions without any picture quality problems.

@Penton Man: Can you shed some light on the inner workings involved in choosing certain classic titles with regard to expected sales in the short and in the long run, maybe also in relation with the costs involved for getting the necessary masters for the disc ?

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

With sales for classic titles not being high enough to support top notch transfers for a lot of titles I would rather have a few very good classic releases than many mediocre ones.

Well said. I too would rather they wait until it economically makes sense for the studios to put the work/$$$ into classics on Blu-Ray, rather than putting less than "the best it can be" versions out now.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by merrick97

Its possible MS could use it for the 360 2 or 720.

HD DVD is dead forever. I cannot see any reason anyone would resurrect it. I'd have to imagine at this point it would be much cheaper to implement BD.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

However, they have piles of players left over. They don't even fix them, they just ship out a new one.

So, you’ve been over to Jodi’s garage too?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZiWid5gO_E

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

@Penton Man: Can you shed some light on the inner workings involved in choosing certain classic titles with regard to expected sales in the short and in the long run, maybe also in relation with the costs involved for getting the necessary masters for the disc ?

No………except for perhaps making some general observations of the “costs involved”.

It can cost studios easily up to a hundred thousand dollars (or more) to restore an original film negative, depending on the extent of the restoration needed.
For instance, the total cost for the restoration of Beckett (joint Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences Film Archive and The Film Foundation funding) came in over the $100,000 mark.
It didn’t even become economically viable to do a 4k restoration of Dr. Strangelove until 2006.
Then for the large format film Baraka, just to scan the film elements at 8k necessitated the Bigfoot scanner to be run 24/7 for close to 4 weeks continuously (think big $$ and a tired Sasquatch).

Several days ago, I posted some additional thoughts here………..
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...30#post1547930

[mark antony]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

Now I have HD-DVDs of Spartacus and Battle of the Bulge for example that I consider too weak to enjoy

What's wrong with BoB? (Apart from no HD Audio) Assuming it's identical to the superb looking BD?

M

[Jack Torrance]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

So, you’ve been over to Jodi’s garage too?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZiWid5gO_E

Oh priceless... priceless...

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

No………except for perhaps making some general observations of the “costs involved”.

It can cost studios easily up to a hundred thousand dollars (or more) to restore an original film negative, depending on the extent of the restoration needed.
For instance, the total cost for the restoration of Beckett (joint Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences Film Archive and The Film Foundation funding) came in over the $100,000 mark.
It didn’t even become economically viable to do a 4k restoration of Dr. Strangelove until 2006.
Then for the large format film Baraka, just to scan the film elements at 8k necessitated the Bigfoot scanner to be run 24/7 for close to 4 weeks continuously (think big $$ and a tired Sasquatch).

Several days ago, I posted some additional thoughts here………..
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...30#post1547930

Thanks for the general observations, and that is an interesting number for Beckett. I guess it means that 10000 sold Blu-Rays would not really be enough for it to break even

I had the pleasure to talk to somebody at Fotokem in 2006 and back then it took them about the same time to do a 4k scan as it does now for doing it in 8k, which meant that for the 4k scan of Cleopatra the scanner had to run continuously for more than 2 months !

And your points about not reusing older HD masters in that other thread is exactly what I would have hoped to hear - with most new titles looking excellent these days the bar has been set very high and I would rather get classic titles later and in excellent quality than rushed and mediocre.

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

It can cost studios easily up to a hundred thousand dollars (or more) to restore an original film negative, depending on the extent of the restoration needed.
For instance, the total cost for the restoration of Becket (joint Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences Film Archive and The Film Foundation funding) came in over the $100,000 mark.

The 100k number for Becket can be misleading, as the majority of post 1961 color productions are not in need of combined separation masters. Becket is the odd case, as the OCN had been "misplaced."

A nominal production of average length, with a decently clean OCN and track can come in far lower. Hit the 1950s and numbers rise.

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by mark antony

What's wrong with BoB? (Apart from no HD Audio) Assuming it's identical to the superb looking BD?

M

I think it should be identical to the Blu-Ray. BoB has issues but looking back at my post it is still significantly better than Spartacus so I should not have put them in the same sentence.

When BoB came out I thought it looked good if not great but since then I have seen many excellent movies in HiDef and I also watched BoB on 70mm and upon revisiting it I was disappointed that it does not hold up as well as other titles like The Searchers, Grand Prix or How The West Was Won. I guess more than anything it is a case of shifting standards and putting it in the same sentence with Spartacus was a bit excessive.

Spartacus on the other hand looked bad from the day I got it, Universal really needs to start from scratch before they release it on Blu-Ray.

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

I think it should be identical to the Blu-Ray. BoB has issues but looking back at my post it is still significantly better than Spartacus so I should not have put them in the same sentence.

When BoB came out I thought it looked good if not great but since then I have seen many excellent movies in HiDef and I also watched BoB on 70mm and upon revisiting it I was disappointed that it does not hold up as well as other titles like The Searchers, Grand Prix or How The West Was Won. I guess more than anything it is a case of shifting standards and putting it in the same sentence with Spartacus was a bit excessive.

Spartacus on the other hand looked bad from the day I got it, Universal really needs to start from scratch before they release it on Blu-Ray.

Oliver,

You're lumping a number of productions together with images harvested in different ways. Any image scan or input must be "final result" dependent. Spartacus will provide superb results with the scan of a 65mm IP. Easily done.

RAH

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

Oliver,

You're lumping a number of productions together with images harvested in different ways. Any image scan or input must be "final result" dependent.

Robert,

You are right about the lumping. I was under the impression, maybe mistakenly, that the movies I mentioned were a better represented on HD than BOB, maybe due to the HD master of BOB being older and having originally been done for the DVD release only.

Regarding an image scan being final result dependant, are you referring to the need to do new scans for Blu-Ray whereas some former HD masters where mainly done for a DVD release ?

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

Spartacus will provide superb results with the scan of a 65mm IP. Easily done.
RAH

I have no doubt about that and I hope that this is exactly what Universal will do in the near future.

Oliver

[bluskies]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

The 100k number for Becket can be misleading, as the majority of post 1961 color productions are not in need of combined separation masters. Becket is the odd case, as the OCN had been "misplaced."

A nominal production of average length, with a decently clean OCN and track can come in far lower. Hit the 1950s and numbers rise.

I find it very disheartening that classic films could be so expensive to make ready for Blu-ray. I want a lot more classics of the 30s through the 60s than I do My Bloody Valentine 3D and every single new film that is made. I realize that the profitability is with the newer movies, but there are a number of fans of classic films who will probably get into Blu if they had many more titles that appealed to them. I see it mentioned as a reason not to buy Blu on websites like Turner Classic Movies.

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

Regarding an image scan being final result dependant, are you referring to the need to do new scans for Blu-Ray whereas some former HD masters where mainly done for a DVD release ?

Oliver

My point is that the entire work flow should be based upon the highest resolution final product.

For example, scanning a 65mm OCN at 8k toward production on Blu-ray is a bit of a waste, as is dirt cleanup of an image at 4k, when not going out to film. Everything is budget vs. resolution dependent.

RAH