"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

...my first BD.com post, and it's to point out a Desperado reference... eesh.

Mind you, considering the line's from the mind of the 10 minute film school, the reference seems apt. Penton, nice to see you keeping up the good work over here, and thanks for the continuing insight into the history of major productions. It took a while to step in these waters (the churlishness of "Us vs. Them" from the so-called format war still colours many posts, even in this illustrious thread) but it's certainly worth a read.

Well, you have to realize that many folks around these parts are refugees from other forums (esp. *science*) to which they just got fed up with the persecution and biased moderation apparent during the format war, so they moved to a blu pasture.

But that’s water under the bridge now.
I like to participate in a thread/forum that is made up of individuals that have come together to share the enthusiasm of their chosen hobby. When I was younger and less busy, I used to post on a mountain bike forum which likewise had a population of enthusiasts whose primary emphasis was to enjoy their hobby rather than to constantly b*tch about the customer service of a certain bike builder or a perceived flaw in the design of a dual suspension downhill bike, when they didn’t have the accurate knowledge or skill to made such pronouncements or the power/influence to change things in the first place.

Good pick-up on the movie quote.
Here’s another to see how good you are, as it ties into your online handle….
“What's the difference between a lawyer and a hooker? A hooker will stop screwing you when you're dead.”

Better answer quickly, because we’ve got some folks here that are fast on the draw.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

...
Having watched another classic on BD this week (Munchausen) I was flipping between the (excellent) doc about the making of on the BD, and the extras that Criterion put together for the LD. Curious if you had any stories about this film coming to BD from the inside?

Not really, except to say that the people that did the video restoration on “Munchausen” were able to get rid of those pesky wires that the Director never intended audiences to see in the first place.

Additionally, as I see you’re from Toronto, I can refer you to a good local link for your neck of the woods………..
http://www.playbackonline.ca/index.html

And welcome to the Blu-ray.com forum.

[Jeff Kleist]

The Rainmaker

I can't wait for that on Blu, the DVD was non-anamorphic and horrible

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Thanks for the kind words Penton.
Which technique? Motion capture and how it'll be used in TinTin?

Sorry Jeff, I can’t comment on feature films that are in production.

[aygie]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, you have to realize that many folks around these parts are refugees from other forums (esp. *science*) to which they just got fed up with the persecution and biased moderation apparent during the format war, so they moved to a blu pasture.

But that’s water under the bridge now.
I like to participate in a thread/forum that is made up of individuals that have come together to share the enthusiasm of their chosen hobby. When I was younger and less busy, I used to post on a mountain bike forum which likewise had a population of enthusiasts whose primary emphasis was to enjoy their hobby rather than to constantly b*tch about the customer service of a certain bike builder or a perceived flaw in the design of a dual suspension downhill bike, when they didn’t have the accurate knowledge or skill to made such pronouncements or the power/influence to change things in the first place.

Good pick-up on the movie quote.
Here’s another to see how good you are, as it ties into your online handle….
“What's the difference between a lawyer and a hooker? A hooker will stop screwing you when you're dead.”

Better answer quickly, because we’ve got some folks here that are fast on the draw.

Matt Damon movie.....

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

The Rainmaker

I can't wait for that on Blu, the DVD was non-anamorphic and horrible

Wow, that was fast.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I think at this point of the story, I will stop and dust off the writings of Joshua Logan which I have at home, in order for me to accurately quote exactly who said what to whom on location, as this was a defining moment in the film’s production and I wouldn’t want to rely solely upon my recollection of my past readings of the events as described by Mr. Logan.

To be continued, in a couple days or so………………..

^
I’m still searching the household for the actual writings……..I just hope that our 10 year-old “Stump” didn’t munch on them years ago when he was but a wee pup…….
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#29147525

^ Hey Merrick, the place he was treated and “overcame a nearly fatal disease” was at the world famous animal hospital at Texas A&M, which I can highly recommend to any pet owners from personal experience. It's worth even getting a jet with your pet and flying there for a work-up and consultation.

P.S. The Stumpster rules the Dog World.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Aygie

Matt Damon movie.....

Now, are there any lawyers…… or trust fund kids out there that can expound exactly upon what Danny DeVito was referring to?

[Jeff Kleist]

Sorry Jeff, I can’t comment on feature films that are in production.

Oh I know, I just don't know what I was supposed to comment on

Now, are there any lawyers…… or trust fund kids out there that can expound exactly upon what Danny DeVito was referring to?

My father worked for lawyers. They'll pressure rich and vulnerable clients to write themselves into the will, for huge money and other perks

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

^
I’m still searching the household for the actual writings……..I just hope that our 10 year-old “Stump” didn’t munch on them years ago when he was but a wee pup…….
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#29147525

^ Hey Merrick, the place he was treated and “overcame a nearly fatal disease” was at the world famous animal hospital at Texas A&M, which I can highly recommend to any pet owners from personal experience. It's worth even getting a jet with your pet and flying there for a work-up and consultation.

P.S. The Stumpster rules the Dog World.

Yes, I am a proud member of Texas A&M University and I must say that it is very flattering to finally see something positive about our school make news.

[GabrielB]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Well, the first matrix game was kinda cruddy, mostly worth playing for the 30 minute sidestory footage. They spent so much time getting the moves and bullet time to chain properly they forgot to make a good game, and never quite nailed it

The Path of Neo was a much better game, and looked much more like the movie in terms of motion, had a great story, and a hilarious secret last boss sequence where the Wachowski Bros tell the player they realize the movie ending is unsatisfactory for a game, and so they changed it

The real problem I think came from a common problem in many games these days. The development time on the engine takes away from the actual gameplay. You see it with Assassin's Creed for example. The underpinnings are great, but the actual game has suffered. Now that they have the "busy work" done, the sequels can concentrate on the "flavor"

Hey Jeff you sound like a gamer. (have any kids... )
Yes the anticipation on Assassin's Creed were great (even more so here in Montreal) but I was terribly disappointed when I played the game that one time at a friend's.

I'm more into puzzle games though (Myst-like and the old LucasArts now extinct adventure games: Dig, Full T, Indy) or the old 2D games (Mario, Oddworld).

Speaking of flavor and underpinnings (which is an issue we find not only in games ), we're never really gonna get a great game out of tie-ins with films... Games that otherwise would have great potential...

[Jeff Kleist]

Speaking of flavor and underpinnings (which is an issue we find not only in games ), we're never really gonna get a great game out of tie-ins with films... Games that otherwise would have great potential...

Try the Riddick game that comes out next month that contains the sequel and remake of the original. It was made with total synergy with the movie team, features a great story, outstanding atmosphere and top-notch voice acting (with the original actors playing their parts).

Most reviews scored it over a well-deserved 90%. It IS possible, you just need a skilled creative and programming staff to achieve synergy and be motivated (and budgeted/scheduled) to turn out qualiity product

If you loved adventure games, you might want to check out Telltale games. All of George Lucas's old masters flew the coop when they canned that division, and they're doing a great job making episodic gaming actually work as a business model.

And for the record I loved AC

Now enough gaming in Penton's thread

[GabrielB]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

If you loved adventure games, you might want to check out Telltale games. All of George Lucas's old masters flew the coop when they canned that division, and they're doing a great job making episodic gaming actually work as a business model.

It's Sam & Max ... I thought they were dead!!!

Telltale looks interesting. I just hope they'd bring back complex story-driven games like that one classic I forgot to mention (probably my favorite game): Grim Fandango. Great multi-layered story...

Now enough gaming in Penton's thread

Yeah OK...
...

So...... What's up with these Superman reboot rumors?? Or Sony's devotion into turning Spider-Man around and making us forget about the 3rd. Do they all get it now that it's all about a great story well written with complex and conflicted characters?

Kidding of course

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Oh I know, I just don't know what I was supposed to comment on

Well, in case anyone asks you how difficult it is to author interactivity for Blu-ray discs, you can refer them to this article, as this dude seems to know what he’s talking about………

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...7120BBDD9B4%7D

[Jeff Kleist]

That Don Ecklund is a smart guy

Middleware is getting to be a huge industry. There's people who do nothing all day but make crates and trees and rocks and Manhatten in the computer, and then license those models to the VFX and gaming industry. Heck, the same F-18 model was used by Roland Emmerich for years (I actually met the guy who made it for ID4 ). As more smaller houses get into Blu, having these basic toolsets without having to hire a programmer will be good for everyone.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Not really, except to say that the people that did the video restoration on “Munchausen” were able to get rid of those pesky wires that the Director never intended audiences to see in the first place.

Additionally, as I see you’re from Toronto, I can refer you to a good local link for your neck of the woods………..
http://www.playbackonline.ca/index.html

And welcome to the Blu-ray.com forum.

ah, fun... unsupervised vfx work under the guise of "restoration"...

and yeah, Playback...used to subscribe some years ago...

As for water under the bridge, while negativity certainly bogs down many a discussion here and elsewhere, I certainly hope you recognize that simply immersing oneself in a comunity of like-minded individuals can occasionaly result in a groupthink that borders on the dogmatic... I often find I learn the most from people I disagree with more so than those who have opinions directly in line with my own, as I'm sure you'd agree. Again, second post and dragging this OT, but, well, yeah...

And a Damon reference? Jeez... What's next, "If I find out you're lying, I'll come back and kill you in your own kitchen"?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

As for water under the bridge, while negativity certainly bogs down many a discussion here and elsewhere, I certainly hope you recognize that simply immersing oneself in a comunity of like-minded individuals can occasionaly result in a groupthink that borders on the dogmatic... I often find I learn the most from people I disagree with more so than those who have opinions directly in line with my own, as I'm sure you'd agree. Again, second post and dragging this OT, but, well, yeah...

Well, I can see we can go round and round on this issue.
Let me just say that if you carefully check the track record of many contributors on threads (esp. *science*) that continuously dwell on some negative aspect of this hobby, they have proven to be ludicrously poor regarding the accuracy of their technological and business acumen because they don’t work in the business. Everything is basically speculation and if it is repeated often enough then somehow, by brain washing, it transposes into ‘accurate knowledge and information’. The current flavor of the times being self-proclaimed or implied expertise (by simply posting online) regarding the presence or absence of grain reduction.

If you prefer to hear some negativity I can tell you that given the global economy, over the past several months or so, post houses that did not have the foresight to put in the infrastructure for Blu-ray production have closed down their home media wings because by relying solely on DVD’s, it’s difficult to cover the overheads due to very low margins and undercutting by competitors for DVD production.

The good news for DVD post houses that have already invested in the infrastructure as well as the technician skills to author Blu-ray discs is that there may be more to benefit from than just the larger margins of Blu-rays over DVD’s. Meaning, if BD Live and online extras take off, those visionary post houses will be well positioned to create all the ancillary content that comes with it……and there will be a lot that comes with it.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

ah, fun... unsupervised vfx work under the guise of "restoration"...

Terry Gilliam (the Director, still alive and kicking) did not complain about the restoration, as he never intended audiences to see the wires in the first place, like I mentioned before.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

...check the track record of many contributors on threads (esp. *science*) that continuously dwell on some negative aspect of this hobby, they have proven to be ludicrously poor regarding the accuracy of their technological and business acumen because they don’t work in the business

Agreed, naturally. I simply share the same distrust of those that cared more about format rather than content, fighting over screen caps and bitrates instead of, you know, watching the damn film. Being a fan of HD formats in general, and distrustful of those that acted in a tribal, cultish fashion on both sides, made for an uncomfortable period of HT discourse. In the end, please forgive the rehash of a long over debate, I enjoy your writings considerably, it was the link at the bottom of your sig that brought the comments to the fore. Humbly, here's hoping the remaining residual of this conflict continues to dispipate, and the BD/HD DVD divide isn't simply replaced with a BD.com/AVS (or any other community) dichotomy, as I fear that any community of internet posters has more than its fair share of ignorance and beligerence masquerading as expertice. It's why I, for one, hold tremendous respect for the members of this "insider" forum, as people like you, RAH, etc. are the closest many of us on the tangents of the industry, or even simply educated fans, have to interact with the players that shape our entertainment. So, formally, thanks for what you contribute here and elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Terry Gilliam (the Director, still alive and kicking) did not complain about the restoration, as he never intended audiences to see the wires in the first place, like I mentioned before.

Indeed, I hope the (overused) smily face let you know that I was lightly teasing those that would worry about such intent. Heck, Gilliam even mentions in the commentary about the wire that pulls the ship in that extraordinary shot where the stars melt into sand...

In this case it's certainly not egregious, but there's a smigdin of discomfort that a restoration would become a (unsupervised by the filmmaker) redux, as I'm sure you would agree.

Meanwhile, got any good Joaquin Phoenix stories? The first year I was accredited at TIFF I was at the press conference for Clay Pigeons, and the 9am press conference was a mess. He was mumbling, clearly out of it, giving one word answers and exhibited a weird mix of hostility and bemusement. He even walked out halfway, supposedly tired of questions we were asking (with my luck, it was after my own question that he bailed) only to return looking more, uh, "peppy". Following this debacle, his publicist called my editor in NY, and even tried (unsuccesfuly) to have my credentials pulled for the next year.

After his celebrated performance and Oscar appearances, I've had a hard time describing the Joaquin I saw that morning years ago. After the Letterman fiasco, I now at least have nice footage on Youtube that can be easily pointed to!

On topic once again, your point about the post houses is a salient one - we hear much about the challenges/advantages of authoring solutions during the bad-old-days of the "war", curious what the current state of development tools is in terms of maturation, and (from your studio perspective) whether we've got in the pipeline discs that apprach fully exploiting the real potential of the format? We've got some great discs so far, of course, but looking to see what affect any recent developments in terms of authoring tools, player performance and programing maturation has had on discs currently in the pipe?

Finally (after a cursory search I did not see you comment on this), I'm curious if you have any comments regarding the hyperregionalization of BD-Live content? While the motivations for region control are certainly understandable from a certain perspective, the refusal of Disney to support BD-Live content in releases like Wall-E and Sleeping Beauty in the =Canadian= market seems a little, well, rediculous. Can you comment whether this is a trend? Without dumping on Disney specifically (the film presentations and on-disc extras are peerless, of course, so no complaints there), can you comment on the state of BD-Live development, where you think it can work better, etc.

thanks in advance, and I never did thank you for the welcome-to-the-forum message... cheers.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Production –

So, on location in Kauai (which b.t.w., is my most favorite island in the Hawaiian chain) Joshua L.(Director) and Leon Shamroy (D.P), who carried the nickname “Shammy” proceeded to shoot the film. They had shot several color changes but, they always played it safe by shooting each scene designated for ‘color filter’ with and without a filter so that they would have a choice as to picking the prime shot at the final cut with the intention that if the colored sequences after printing were not subtle on the big screen, they would go with the unfiltered shots for the final edit.

‘So, anyway, without warning, without any hint or preview’ ( < film enthusiasts, what movie is that quote from…..anyone?), the producer, Buddy Adler who had been viewing the dailies in SoCal, got on a plane and showed up on the set unannounced.

I think at this point of the story, I will stop and dust off the writings of Joshua Logan which I have at home, in order for me to accurately quote exactly who said what to whom on location, as this was a defining moment in the film’s production and I wouldn’t want to rely solely upon my recollection of my past readings of the events as described by Mr. Logan.

To be continued, in a couple days or so………………..

Producer (Buddy Adler) speaking to the Director (Joshua Logan)…..
“I’ve got great news for you Josh. You don’t have to shoot two ways anymore. Only shoot your color change. The lab can cut out the color if you don’t want it later. I’ve gone into it thoroughly.”

Joshua then called over his cinematographer, ‘Shammy’ to join in on their conversation.
Director speaking to Cinematographer……….
“Don’t you think it’s safer to do what we’re doing?”

Producer interrupting before Cinematographer can speak….
“No safer, according to the lab, and you know it’s much more expensive. It doubles the expense of the whole location while those scenes are being shot. You don’t want to be responsible for that, Shammy.”

Cinematographer speaking to both Producer and Director………..
“I don’t want to be responsible for anything. You make the decisions.”
And he left the discussion to continue his lighting set-up.

So………….the remainder of the scenes which were scheduled to be shot with and without a color filter, were only shot with a color filter as per the ‘advice’ of the Producer who had flown out to Hawaii from California to speak personally with the Director.

Next……….Post Production.