"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[sharkshark]

sweet, had missed that article...

This goes straight to the heart of discussions earlier about why more forum members prefer DTS soundtracks:

DTS soundtracks, unlike Dolby Digital, are not attenuated by 4 dB by your decoder. This means that if you've set up your system using AVIA or Video Essentials, the DTS soundtrack is actually going to play 4 dB too high. Yes, that's right. You read it right: On a system calibrated for reference level playback with Video Essentials or AVIA, DTS soundtracks play 4 dB too loud. Conversely (and to be fair), if you set up a system using DTS test noise, the Dolby Digital soundtrack will be 4 dB too low. Yet what is important here, and what I really want you to take away from this, is that regardless of what actual level you watch a movie at, relative to one another, there exists this 4 dB difference between DTS and Dolby Digital movie soundtracks played over consumer equipment. If at any time you are comparing soundtracks, you must turn your volume down when listening to the DTS track and/or raise it when listening to the Dolby Digital track (as the case may be) in order to hear the same level from both.

...some of us hinted at volume matching, but that's one of the more clear articulations of the situation I've ever seen. And, yes, it equally applies to TrueHD vs DTS HD MA, if Dialnorm was embedded in the former. This, plus herd think and comparing disparate soundtracks, could entirely account for why some prefer one over another in terms of sound quality (there may still be, for example, pragmatic considerations like player capability, mixdown to lossy over toslink, etc.)

[Jeff Kleist]

Anthony, you're misreading what it's saying

The commercial is much louder inherently, and therefore is assigned a lower dialnorm value. Everything in that commercial is blaring loud, and the same inherent volume, that's why they're seperate in the first graph in picture 1, but bunched together in graph 2. It's showing a transition between the show and the commercial. Inside the "movie" portion of the graph, everything that the codec allows for is maintained, it's only when you switch to the new stream (in this case a commercial), that the new dialnorm value is used (movies are typically done at -27, the commercial, being louder in the master would be let's say -32 or even -37)

The differences are in the mix of the commerical as opposed ot the movie

[Anthony P]

The second picture is the DRC they talk about as well, not DN.

I know, but it showed the point I made earlier when you use the two together and go a bit beyond. You get the small issue with DN

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

And in case anyone missed it, that “character” in the YouTube link (as the author noted) was a cameo by the REAL Chuck Yeager.

Dude, us real space geeks can recognize Yeager on sight, no prompting required.

And while The Right Stuff is inaccurate, it is a fun view. An interview in the last year or two with one of the participants looking back on the SFX back was also a fun read. I wonder when it will make it to BR.

[Anthony P]

The commercial is much louder inherently, and therefore is assigned a lower dialnorm value. Everything in that commercial is blaring loud

I know that and for an ad or a case like this no issue. But what if the DN example had "crickets" in it as well? What would happen?

The issue is that LPCM (depending on the bit depth) has a fixed loudness range. In the end that is one of the biggest reason (except for ads) why one movie/show might be recorded louder then an other. now your player takes that compressed file, decodes it, and then changes the value to normalize the average (dialog). In your previous post you pointed out that DTS tends to be 4 db louder then reference, so DN instead of sending out the original value it will remove 4 db, so if it was 34 db it will send out in the PCM to the receiver that it is 30db, the bomb at 104db will become 100db. But what happens to the cricket at 4db? or the squeaky floor at 3db?

Like I said before, I don’t have an issue with it, very little sound, if any, will be at the extremes (the same will happen when you go past the ceiling) and will a movie recorded as loud have anything important in the soft and vice versa? But in the end the dat is manipulated (30<>34) and there can be consequences. So I can’t have an issue with anyone that has anything against it.

[Jeff Kleist]

I know that and for an ad or a case like this no issue. But what if the DN example had "crickets" in it as well? What would happen?

It's still there. The audio data is untouched, you just turn up your voume if you feel this is an issue. The audio is even mastered with dialnorm in mind, it's not an issue.

Nothing is removed, like I said, dialnorm is simply automatic moving of your volume knob, much in the same way your movie theater opens and closes the curtains on the screen or changes aspect ratios automatically

[gandley]

Well considering most AMPS set set DRC to Auto or on with trueHD its no wonder people think the trueHD is lacking.
IronMan on my Denon A1 HDA amp was pretty lacking and i could not work it out why it sounded so weedy. few menu flips and DRC was set to auto which in this case equaled ON.. turned off and its base was room shaking with better dynamics.

Kung foo Panda is set to off on my amp while Transformers defaults to Auto as well. there are a few truHD tracks that seem to default to auto on my amp but that somtimes means its OFF or ON depending on the encode.

This just seems to suck, why have the setting default to on and why the hit and miss with its setting from disc to disc?? is that a encoding error? Or should the Amp default to OFF?
Its a pain having to check to make sure DRC is set to off everytime i watch a trueHD movie and im pretty sure this will lead others to think trueHD lacks punch which it will if DRC is on.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

But what happens to the cricket at 4db? or the squeaky floor at 3db?

Then the cricket would be 0db and the squeaky floor -1db.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by gandley

This just seems to suck, why have the setting default to on and why the hit and miss with its setting from disc to disc?? is that a encoding error? Or should the Amp default to OFF?

Some amps allow you to set them to AUTO or OFF (or ON) by default.

They flag some material because of the wide variety of setups. Those who have cheap HTIBs, or PC speakers, or TV speakers. These may actually be damaged by strong program sound transients.

[sharkshark]

...amps ain't doing a thing, but your receiver/pre-amp might be...

[Jeff Kleist]

Kung foo Panda is set to off on my amp while Transformers defaults to Auto as well. there are a few truHD tracks that seem to default to auto on my amp but that somtimes means its OFF or ON depending on the encode.

The Onkyo's have a bug in them that won't save DRC being off, that's been reported many timess and they have yet to fix

[Constitution 101]

Saw Terminator Salvation last night. See it! SEE IT!!!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

Watched it last night and thought it looked and sounded great.

Valkyrie seems to be holding onto the top 5 position in the Amazon bestseller list the last few times I’ve checked.

I’m a little surprised there hasn’t been more chatter about it on this forum, esp. given Memorial Day weekend and such.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I find in network (national) commercials during prime time shows the DialNorm will vary as it should. It's when the yokel ads show up that the volume starts getting out of hand. NBC-LA had something with a rock concert sound that would blast the speakers for several weeks recently, very annoying.

Peter, I didn’t realize that you’re in L.A.?
If you’re free, you should pre-register for Cine Gear Expo (online) as the Premiere Seminars are free and I’m betting that the temperature this year will be much lower than 108-110°F like last year on the Uni backlot.

[Penton-Man]

I hope all you guys that have been talking about the use of DTS-HD Master Audio vs. Dolby TrueHD, etc. actually took time to vote in the poll.

I haven’t been tracking the names.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Constitution 101

Saw Terminator Salvation last night. See it! SEE IT!!!

It certainly has been a ‘rebooting spring’, i.e. (go back to the beginning and start again)

X-Men Origins Wolverine
Star Trek (Kirk and Spock are youngsters)
Terminator Salvation

It generally works out (financially) for the most part, for everyone involved in any aspect of the business......expect it to continue.

[Penton-Man]

Have a Happy Memorial Day everyone and remember who it is in Memory of.

[Jeff Kleist]

It certainly has been a ‘rebooting spring’, i.e. (go back to the beginning and start again)

Not with Terminator, since T1-3 still happened, even down to Linda Hamilton's tapes. Whether they were successful or not in making a good movie, this is simply the future war movie that we've been asking for for 25 years, where the changes to the timeline that happened in the first couple of movies had an impact.

Now that's the beginning of another nerdy science discussion on temporal mechanics and theory

Also, Wolverine isn't a reboot of the X-franchise, it's a spinoff The prequel is still in development seperately that deals with the original team's school years, and will undoubtedly have a bunch of new players who will continue in the roles until they get too expensive as well

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Valkyrie seems to be holding onto the top 5 position in the Amazon bestseller list the last few times I’ve checked.

I’m a little surprised there hasn’t been more chatter about it on this forum, esp. given Memorial Day weekend and such.

It is an entertaining movie, but would have been MUCH better if done with German actors and subtitled. The varying accents of the principle players could be a tad distracting, but it's still entertaining. BTW, the Burns documentary on the BD is better than the actual movie from a historical standpoint and is a much watch featurette.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I hope all you guys that have been talking about the use of DTS-HD Master Audio vs. Dolby TrueHD, etc. actually took time to vote in the poll.

I haven’t been tracking the names.

I posted this question in that thread but it got lost under all the discussion. here seems like a better place.

Originally Posted by saprano

penton do you have a timeframe as to when sony will be making they're decision?