"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[wallendo]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Anthony, you're misreading what it's saying

The commercial is much louder inherently, and therefore is assigned a lower dialnorm value. Everything in that commercial is blaring loud, and the same inherent volume, that's why they're seperate in the first graph in picture 1, but bunched together in graph 2. It's showing a transition between the show and the commercial. Inside the "movie" portion of the graph, everything that the codec allows for is maintained, it's only when you switch to the new stream (in this case a commercial), that the new dialnorm value is used (movies are typically done at -27, the commercial, being louder in the master would be let's say -32 or even -37)

The differences are in the mix of the commerical as opposed ot the movie

I read somewhere that commercials are not actually louder (peak loudness), but that the dynamic range is so compressed that it sounds louder. Would DialNorm affect that.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

It certainly has been a ‘rebooting spring’, i.e. (go back to the beginning and start again)

X-Men Origins Wolverine
Star Trek (Kirk and Spock are youngsters)
Terminator Salvation

It generally works out (financially) for the most part, for everyone involved in any aspect of the business......expect it to continue.

Star Trek: "This isn't your father's Star Trek"

Terminator: "Hey, this isn't my mom's Judgement Day!"

[horseflesh]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

It certainly has been a ‘rebooting spring’, i.e. (go back to the beginning and start again)

X-Men Origins Wolverine
Star Trek (Kirk and Spock are youngsters)
Terminator Salvation

It generally works out (financially) for the most part, for everyone involved in any aspect of the business......expect it to continue.

Great, so originality is officially out the window in Hollywood.......

[Jeff Kleist]

I read somewhere that commercials are not actually louder (peak loudness), but that the dynamic range is so compressed that it sounds louder. Would DialNorm affect that.

Well, we're both right actually You look at that chart and see how they're all squished together at the top of that range. DialNorm is making sure all the dialog (or the pitch in this case) hits the same volume, so because all that stuff is stuffed at the top of the scale in the commercial, you get both loudness and decreased dynamic range. So because everything's stuffed up there, the whole bar is moved down (as shown)

Dialnorm is a volume offset that's done to where the average dialog is, whether that's 80db in the track or 20, it brings everything down or up to keep it relative (-27db under reference is standard). The end user can then raise or lower their volume as desired.

Great, so originality is officially out the window in Hollywood.......

Course not. They just make something original and call it something unoriginal

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

It is an entertaining movie, but would have been MUCH better if done with German actors and subtitled.

It’s funny you should mention that because the original concept of the Director was to do a quick guerilla style movie with a total budget of less than 20million with all German actors.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

BTW, the Burns documentary on the BD is better than the actual movie from a historical standpoint and is a much watch featurette.

I haven’t seen any of the supplemental material yet but, I do have some knowledge of the principal photography as well as the post production work involving the non linear color grading (the DI) and the visual effects done by Sony Pictures Imageworks.

I think that the main character in the film was a true hero with great courage.....esp. appropriate no matter what country one heralds from, given that this is Memorial Day.

[Objectivity]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

It is an entertaining movie, but would have been MUCH better if done with German actors and subtitled. The varying accents of the principle players could be a tad distracting, but it's still entertaining. BTW, the Burns documentary on the BD is better than the actual movie from a historical standpoint and is a much watch featurette.

They could have made it with German actors and subtitled. But, the trade-off is then the size of the audience is smaller, the budget is smaller, you don't have any actors who are big name draws, etc.

Case in point, I'll give you Paul Verhoeven's very enjoyable Black Book. It looks like a Hollywood movie and plays like a Hollywood movie, but the entire thing is in Dutch and German (or is it just German). If they had made the same movie in English, they could have nabbed big names for it. Instead, it stands unknown to most of the general audience.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by horseflesh

Great, so originality is officially out the window in Hollywood.......

Purty much!
Actually, I think that may be a simplistic extrapolation of what I said before.

Fresh ideas and originality are welcomed but, rebooting a brand name franchise is the safer financial bet for studios (and its co-financing partners, for instance Relativity Media), so that understandably gives the ‘oldies but goodies’ a step up on the ‘originality’ competition, so to speak, as they (the franchises) are the anchors of your slate. One already has the brand name recognition hook with its automatic built-in audience.

All that said, personally, I love new ideas and new directions.
For example, I loved the eccentricity of the cops in the TV show The Unusuals.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by saprano

I posted this question in that thread but it got lost under all the discussion. here seems like a better place.

Sorry, all I’m at liberty to say on the specifics of that subject, is what I already posted here…….

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...us#post1922206

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Objectivity

They could have made it with German actors and subtitled. But, the trade-off is then the size of the audience is smaller, the budget is smaller, you don't have any actors who are big name draws, etc.

Case in point, I'll give you Paul Verhoeven's very enjoyable Black Book. It looks like a Hollywood movie and plays like a Hollywood movie, but the entire thing is in Dutch and German (or is it just German). If they had made the same movie in English, they could have nabbed big names for it. Instead, it stands unknown to most of the general audience.

Black Book is one of the best films of this decade IMO and the BD presentation is outstanding.

I'll take substance over style any day. and Black Book is the perfect example of that. It wouldn't have had the same impact if it had American (or British) actors. (But that's my opinion)

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I think that the main character in the film was a true hero with great courage.....esp. appropriate no matter what country one heralds from, given that this is Memorial Day.

Agreed...true hero. We need more people like him these days. Maybe someone will step-up and let our government know that you can't keep printing money endlessly without creating some MAJOR problems in the future. We are screwing subsequent generations with our debt and are on our way to a Banana Republic...now back to our regularly scheduled programming

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

No more politics though....

Yes, please no more.

An interesting personal aside to Valkyrie, and one of the filmmakers, regards the DP for this motion picture. His mother was a German Jew who was born in Berlin and lived there during some of the injustices before fleeing. He always wished that his mother had been able to view the movie but alas, as she was an elderly women, she passed before the film premiered.

[Penton-Man]

Pertaining to the link posted by sharkshark above for the Valkyrie review -

In regards to the solitary numerical score for “Video”, namely 3.5, seems to me that the reviewer is rating the appearance of the imagery based upon his personal preference for *the look* and how that theatrical look translates as reference material for some home theatre enthusiasts for which sharpness and vivid colors are of paramount importance, rather than the technical quality of the Blu-ray production itself (master and encoding).

Nothing wrong with that, as long as he makes that type of analysis evident to readers, which I think he has if you read his spiel under “Video”.
I recall similarly low scores for the picture quality (by other reviewers and regular membership) in regards to critiquing the imagery of more than one modern day comedy, which were pretty much transparent to the source and just the way they were intentionally shot and graded.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movie...64&show=review

I’ll tell you more details about the nuances of the color saturation and the scenes with “slight push to yellow” when I get the time.
This is going to be a hectic week for me.

Later.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Objectivity

They could have made it with German actors and subtitled. But, the trade-off is then the size of the audience is smaller, the budget is smaller, you don't have any actors who are big name draws, etc.

Case in point, I'll give you Paul Verhoeven's very enjoyable Black Book. It looks like a Hollywood movie and plays like a Hollywood movie, but the entire thing is in Dutch and German (or is it just German). If they had made the same movie in English, they could have nabbed big names for it. Instead, it stands unknown to most of the general audience.

Really good movie. Also, Sophie Scholl:The final Days is a very good movie.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

The Onkyo's have a bug in them that won't save DRC being off, that's been reported many timess and they have yet to fix

But only when bitstreaming!

By the way, finished Valkyrie this weekend and thought it was a great movie. Not one I'll watch again, but definitely well-done. Thought the PQ and AQ were great throughout. At one point "the explosion" actually almost knocked the wall scroll I have above my subwoofer off the wall! It sounded amazing.

[Starfleet Officer]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I have a serious request for any of our industrious members here or one of the moderators….

I am interested in an online poll on Blu-ray.com that inquires as to whether or not the members feel that SPE should start using DTSHDMA and drop Dolby True HD. We are just checking public interest, nothing decided, nothing eminent. It would just be good to know if many, anyone ? would get bent out of shape because they have an early player that does not support DTS lossless.

I would appreciate if someone could run the survey when they get a chance (posting a link to it here on my thread to save me time in not searching for it) and hopefully there will be some statistically significant participation from our members here. This is one of those rare opportunities in which your direct input could influence the policy of the home video division of a major Hollywood studio.

Thanks

I am in full support of DTS-HD Master audio, However I have noted that some of the movies I own on dvd do have a DTS mix on them, for example, Terminator 3 Rise of the Machines was in DTS, on the Blu ray version it's Dolby True HD.

Another example The Mask starring Jim Carrey, on dvd DTS ES 6.1, But on Blu ray, Dolby True HD.

I love both these movies, but whats the point in re-releasing them on blu ray if they are been given inferior sound mixes, it gives me no confidence in the blu ray format if this continually happens.

And for this reason i will not be buying either Terminator 3 of The mask on blu ray, I'll just stick with the dvd versions, there is no point in replacing them on blu ray just yet.

So note to Hollywood, Sort this matter or watch Blu ray die the same death as HD DVD.

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by Starfleet Officer

So note to Hollywood, Sort this matter or watch Blu ray die the same death as HD DVD.

WHOA!!

Please note that the Dolby TrueHD on "The Mask" is superior to the DTS on the DVD.... though it is only 5.1.

Also, the US version of "Terminator 3: Rise Of The Machines" (assuming you're from the US) does not have Dolby TrueHD on it... only 640k DD... which is PROBABLY superior to the DTS soundtrack on the DVD.

Both releases have their video shortcomings though...

Others will probably comment on your post further, but I did want to elaborate on the above.

~Alan

[sharkshark]

...hey, sweet, proof positive about my reasons for why DTS is championed on forums over Dolby, in this case without all the facts, and once again -nothing- to do with differences in sound quality. And with a format bashing for good measure!

Yeah, feel free to scroll up a few posts and google "lossless" audio and it'll all begin to make more sense.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Alan Gordon

Also, the US version of "Terminator 3: Rise Of The Machines" (assuming you're from the US) does not have Dolby TrueHD on it... only 640k DD... which is PROBABLY superior to the DTS soundtrack on the DVD.

Probably?

Most definitely.

640k DD is pretty much as close as you can get to full lossless, and it doesn't roll off the higher frequencies like 768kbps DTS does.