"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[mark antony]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema

Year 4 is still early days in the format?.

It is if you look at the sales figures, particularly classics. Sales are increasing, which is great, but some of these titles that you'd assume would shift millions of units maybe struggle to hit 50-100,000.

That is why some of the titles that you'd think would be a no-brainer release aren't available, the huge cost of re-mastering some of these titles specifically for BD doesn't justify the return at this moment in time. And the studio's know they will be ripped a new one if the master they use is over a few years old and not up to par.

Simple economics, the more that are sold, the more will get released. If you want more classics, then buy the ones that have been sitting on your wants list for a while.

M

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Arkadin

a MASSIVE disappointment.
It's not opinion--it is FACT.

[mark antony]

Originally Posted by Arkadin

well I am certainly entitled to my opinion as are you.
Sony has released like only 1 or 2 titles from before 1960, and for me that is a huge disappointment considering all the Columbia classics.
They also have already released the restored sd versions of "LoA" and "Bridge On the River Kwai" over a year ago.
They released "Passage To India" over a year ago and made it look like the beginning of a line of Columbia classics.
uhhh what happened?
I just looked over the list of every Sony title at bdstats.com, and as far as classic older titles they are a huge disappointment.
yes they are.
regarding Universal--they have been a HUGE disappointment also regarding classic titles.
no question about it.
a MASSIVE disappointment.
It's not opinion--it is FACT.
before 1060--how many titles?
uhhh how bout a big FAT 0

.

Fair enough. So what would be your top 5 pre-1960 titles that Sony should release, titles that you feel would sell a million units on BD over the course of a year, or have only recently had full restoration/dvd special features created and so don't require much work above/beyond what's been done already?

M

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by mark antony

Fair enough. So what would be your top 5 pre-1960 titles that Sony should release, titles that you feel would sell a million units on BD over the course of a year, or have only recently had full restoration/dvd special features created and so don't require much work above/beyond what's been done already?

M

Is that a realistic expectation for most classics, regardless of the maturity of the format? I never followed DVD sales closely, but did LoA and Taxi Driver and others sell a million copies their first year on DVD?

[Mr. Cinema]

Originally Posted by mark antony

It is if you look at the sales figures, particularly classics. Sales are increasing, which is great, but some of these titles that you'd assume would shift millions of units maybe struggle to hit 50-100,000.

That is why some of the titles that you'd think would be a no-brainer release aren't available, the huge cost of re-mastering some of these titles specifically for BD doesn't justify the return at this moment in time. And the studio's know they will be ripped a new one if the master they use is over a few years old and not up to par.

Simple economics, the more that are sold, the more will get released. If you want more classics, then buy the ones that have been sitting on your wants list for a while.

M

pricing is key. The reason why older titles didn't sell earlier is the studios found out quickly that the majority aren't going to pay $25 to own a movie, especially when the DVD counterpart was half that cost.

Under $20 is certainly the sweet spot and is in my price range. However, I'm not going to buy A Passage to India, a movie I have 0 interest in owning, just to try and get Lawrence of Arabia released. I'll let someone else spend their money on that one.

[aygie]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

I frankly thought that Spidey 2 was a nigh-perfect Spider-Man film. The first one had a lot of shakey bits, but the second one, fantastic, and felt just right start to finish, especially the beautiful re-creation of the classic cover of him walking away from the suit in the trash can.

I hope whoever is assigned to the project resists the temptation to re-tell the origin story, to target the 8-14 demographic instead of keeping it broad, and to retain as many of the Raimi supporting cast as possible. You will not find a better JJJ than JK Simmons, period. It's like the man stepped right off the page, and keeping Rosemary Harris isn't a bad idea either, despite her advancing years. I'm sure whoever comes in will wipe the slate clean just for the sake of making it their own however.

Personally I'm sad we'll never see him tackle Kraven's Last Hunt or a Lizard film. While I don't relish Tobey MacGuire doing those stories, I do think Raimi would have delivered something incredible.

Every word you said is exactly how I feel.

[Mr. Cinema]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

As much as everyone loves to bash them, I think the BD landscape would be a very different place without WB's continued support.

100% agreement.

Not only are WB contributing more titles than anyone, they are leading again in terms of lower pricing. They're the ones who began the price drops, releasing the budget titles, doing the double feature releases, etc. We've all noticed that post Christmas, day & date releases have unfortunately zoomed back up to $25 on average, except WB. Their day & dates can still be had for $20.

[Arkadin]

not counting "Bridge" and "LoA" these are some titles that Sony should release first if they wanted to go with the most classic stuff (pre 1960) that would most likely sell as well as any other classic titles imo:

"On the Waterfront"
"From Here To Eternity"
"Mr. Smith Goes To Washington"
"The Big Heat"
"It Happened One Night"
"The Lady From Shanghai"

Overall Sony doesn't have anywhere near the number of older classics that Warner, 20th Century Fox, and Paramount do, but these titles would be an obvious starting place.
It is already known that "On the Waterfront" and "From Here To Eternity" are coming to blu-ray at some point.
the big question of course is how much longer do we have to wait?

[mark antony]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

Is that a realistic expectation for most classics, regardless of the maturity of the format? I never followed DVD sales closely, but did LoA and Taxi Driver and others sell a million copies their first year on DVD?

If a title costs $500,000-1,000,000+ to restore properly for BD (WB admitted spending $6 million on mastering four classics alone) plus marketing and special features costs, and they know it will only sell 50,000 units it probably won't break even. In a global credit crunch this reduces things further.

DVD mastering costs were cheaper as they werent scrutanied as closely as they are now. Having had a quick look on the net, US Only, both T Driver and LOA sold over 500,000 units each by 2003.

M

[mark antony]

Originally Posted by Arkadin

not counting "Bridge" and "LoA" these are some titles that Sony should release first if they wanted to go with the most classic stuff (pre 1960) that would most likely sell as well as any other classic titles imo:

"On the Waterfront"
"From Here To Eternity"
"Mr. Smith Goes To Washington"
"The Big Heat"
"It Happened One Night"
"The Lady From Shanghai"

Overall Sony doesn't have anywhere near the number of older classics that Warner, 20th Century Fox, and Paramount do, but these titles would be an obvious starting place.
It is already known that "On the Waterfront" and "From Here To Eternity" are coming at some point.
the big question of course is how much longer do we have to wait?

I'll let Penton comment, if he feels so inclined, as to whether these titles are likely to sell at this point on time on BD in large numbers and approx costs of restoration based on current available master's/elements.

M

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by aygie

Every word you said is exactly how I feel.

Aygie, regarding the script you desired to pitch, if either venue fits your plans and schedule, then this may be a good dry run (see FAST PITCH)……….
http://www.theshowbizexpo.com/a_indu...20%26amp;%20LA

to prepare you for “The Golden Pitch” session of the Screenwriting Expo this upcoming autumn, if you still don’t have an agent -
http://screenwritingexpo.com/index.html

[aygie]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Aygie, regarding the script you desired to pitch, if either venue fits your plans and schedule, then this may be a good dry run (see FAST PITCH)……….
http://www.theshowbizexpo.com/a_indu...20%26amp;%20LA

to prepare you for “The Golden Pitch” session of the Screenwriting Expo this upcoming autumn, if you still don’t have an agent -
http://screenwritingexpo.com/index.html

I cannot believe you remembered! Thanks Penton those links are awesome but a bit far for me being in the UK Still great research for me to do. Truly, thanks.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mark antony

I'll let Penton comment, if he feels so inclined, as to whether these titles are likely to sell at this point on time on BD in large numbers and approx costs of restoration based on current available master's/elements.

Sorry, I am not inclined but rather intimidated, as his internet reputation for advanced vocabulary precedes him………..
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/1810921-post62.html

as I imagine he’s ticked off that he abruptly ran with a rumor from “other” sites……
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/1810573-post59.html

I will say that your rationale regarding the economics of the situation is spot-on.

[mark antony]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I will say that your rationale regarding the economics of the situation is spot-on.

Thanks for the clarification Penton, btw did you see my GoN restoration post from a couple of days ago

M

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by Arkadin

...regarding Universal--they have been a HUGE disappointment also regarding classic titles.
no question about it.
a MASSIVE disappointment.
It's not opinion--it is FACT.
before 1060--how many titles?
uhhh how bout a big FAT 0

Yes, at least bring out the widescreen edition of The Battle of Hastings.

(Admittedly, that is 1066, but )

[cjamescook]

Penton-

I feel like offering an apology, or at least eating a little crow.

The GF and I have been watching a movie per weekend from the "Comedy Classics Collection" boxed set: Libeled Lady, Dinner at Eight, Stage Door, Bringing Up Baby so far. We've both enjoyed them, and I've had the bonus of introducing them to her as she is Russian.

But it occurred to me, how many others know of them? So I surveyed a half dozen software engineers at my office (age range: 25 - 35+). I wrote four or five names on the board: Spencer Tracy, Katherine Hepburn, Myrna Loye, William Powell, Cary Grant, then asked if anyone knew them. Maybe a couple people tentatively recognized one name as an old film star. As for naming a film they were in, only when I added the name Humphrey Bogart could one or two name Casablanca.

My immediate reaction is disappointment that these supposedly intelligent folks are so unknowledgable of film stars of the past.

My second reaction is that given the above (small) sample, I can see that selling classics on Blu-ray is a real problem.

Sell hits from the last six months? Great.
Sell stuff from 10 years ago? Maybe.
Sell stuff from 60 years ago? Questionable.

So, as much as I have impatiently championed releases of restored older catalog films on Blu-ray, I must confess that I don't see how the market will support it.

Sigh.
-Jim

p.s. Why don't the rest of you try the same survey at your office with non-film buff co-workers, then report your results?

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by cjamescook

p.s. Why don't the rest of you try the same survey at your office with non-film buff co-workers, then report your results?

Not to say that the market for older films is huge, but there is a specific market for them and it is generally not young working people with no serious interest in films. There are people who are old enough to have seen these films when they were fairly recent, people whose parents/relatives introduced them to older eras of films, and younger people who are art / film buffs and take it upon themselves to get exposed to older films.

No one, not here on the internet or working in the studios, expects classic films to compete in the general film market with the Iron Man's and He's Just Not That Into You's. It is obviously profitable to put these films out in some capacity - just look at the classic DVD market. Sure, there are a few notable exceptions here and there, but most critically-praised older films have very nice DVD editions (many more than one). And there are all kinds of boxsets and collections of old films that are extremely niche (even within the general niche of old films). So SOMEONE is buying these. It's just a matter of people buying these on Blu-ray now - that is where things get more uncertain.

I personally am THRILLED to see the two volumes of 'Bad Girls of Film Noir' coming out on DVD from Sony in early February. Blu-ray would be even better but considering their niche-of-a-niche status I am honestly happy to see them even on DVD. No doubts or regrets about that order.

[Jeff Kleist]

Good luck with that survey, not one person has ever taken up my Little Mermaid challenge (that the current "hit' version that has been altered supplants the original in the public memory)

And that's the real problem. Even in 1997 when DVD hit, there were millions more people around who remembered these movies. There are very few Gone with the Winds or Lawrence of Arabias that will endure, and even those will probably lose financial luster within our lifetimes (no matter how sad it may be)

[Mr. Cinema]

How large does the user base have to be? Aren't we up to 17 million BD capable players now in the US? Does anyone actually expect 40 year old+ films to routinely debut with a million copies sold? I certainly don't. Older catalogs sell over time. Even if something doesn't make a huge splash right away, it's not out of the relm of possibility to think that a title can still make sales as more people pick up players.

I understand the situation. One side says let's wait until the user base builds up and release LOA. The other side says to get new buyers, you need to provide them with a bigger selection of films they want, and this includes their classic favorites.

I'm sure there are plenty out there who will jump into BD when Title A hits.

[jangofett]

Penton, could you mention some of the factors that you hope that will push Blu-ray above 20% marketshare? I've been waiting for this for a while now, and just want another opinion as to what some of the better heads around here think of it. Thanks.