"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

I do have suggestions for saving a lot of money on next year's show.

I have a suggestion but, it aint going to save money.

Given the fact that 70 – 80% of AVATAR was CGI (whether it be 2D or 3D is not relevant), I think the Governors in the Cinematography branch are eventually going to have to seriously address the situation of the ‘Best Cinematography’ award. Namely, given the fact that when this award was first instituted, it was with traditional live-action cinematography in mind.

Perhaps people should consider something like a separate ‘CGI Cinematography’ award when the majority of the motion picture is created in a computer and not as the light hit the camera, like for example, with The White Ribbon or Inglourious Basterds, etc.

Just a thought.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

I guess Penton's still hungover, eh?

Truly.
I even took off Monday.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

What about all us lowly members who generate all the ENTERTAINMENT!?

Well, I failed to mention the membership-at-large because I figured that was a given.
Sorry.

Gotta run.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, I failed to mention the membership-at-large because I figured that was a given.

It is a given. I was just winding you up.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

One big redeeming point of the whole extravaganza that critics seem to forget is that there is a real segment of the population who would never have known or been introduced to some of the motion pictures nominated without all the pomp and circumstance of this Awards event because they aren’t quite the cinephiles, as for instance, the people on this forum. The show brings public awareness to certain movies like The Hurt Locker so that folks can maybe still catch them at their local Cineplex or at home on Blu-ray.

Even reading this forum, brings a special tidbit or two to those that live in SoCal and in retrospect, might have wished they could have attended……..Peter .
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post2806741

I wasn't referring to the show itself, which I mostly enjoy, it's the Best Actor/Actress circle-**** thing.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Perhaps people should consider something like a separate ‘CGI Cinematography’ award when the majority of the motion picture is created in a computer and not as the light hit the camera, like for example, with The White Ribbon or Inglourious Basterds, etc.

I was really puzzled by Avatar winning that award myself.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

It is a given. I was just winding you up.

I count on you telling me that I can get the Champions League in HD now on Time Warner cable.........rather than relying on my adminstrative assistant 'enlightening me' about its availability after I've been recording and watching the dang games in SD for the past few weeks.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I was really puzzled by Avatar winning that award myself.

Actors are the largest voting contingent for the determining the Winner in this category.
I think it’s safe to say that when most actors see beautiful imagery on screen, they automatically equate that with beautiful “Cinematography” and vote accordingly. The situation has to be addressed further upstream at the Nomination process level.

Since CGI and motion capture technology have advanced so far and are beginning to contribute to more than 50% of the final edit of a feature film, I think that this traditional
award has to be reconsidered and perhaps two entities, namely the Director of Photography (Cinematographer) and the CGI team should be given their due credit and receive separate awards for the Best Work in their respective disciplines.

I guess an analogy would be like for the “sickly mole people” err……writers with different awards offered for ‘Original Screenplay’ and ‘Adopted Screenplay’.

[Bullseye]

It would be better respected if it included more foreign cinema and dropped the best foreign language section altogether. Just have one section with US and World Cinema.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

One big redeeming point of the whole extravaganza that critics seem to forget is that there is a real segment of the population who would never have known or been introduced to some of the motion pictures nominated without all the pomp and circumstance of this Awards event because they aren’t quite the cinephiles, as for instance, the people on this forum. The show brings public awareness to certain movies like The Hurt Locker so that folks can maybe still catch them at their local Cineplex or at home on Blu-ray.

Even reading this forum, brings a special tidbit or two to those that live in SoCal and in retrospect, might have wished they could have attended……..Peter .
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post2806741

[Bobby Henderson]

I thought the cinematography Oscar was determined by members who are cinematographers, camera operators, etc. With actors turning out to be the largest voting block that makes a little more sense to me why movies such as Slumdog Millionaire win the award over The Dark Knight or The Curious Case of Benjamin Button.

I agree Avatar winning the cinematography award (or even being nominated for it) was a little odd. I'd prefer to see "old school" cinematography like that of Inglorious Basterds win. However, a great deal of live action movies are very artificial in their end result as well. The combination of techniques like digital intermediate, effects compositing, digital finishing, etc. take a filmed (or videotaped) movie a long way from how it appeared when shot on the set.

The biggest confusing head-scratcher for me: The Hurt Locker winning the Best Sound Editing and Best Sound Mixing Oscars.

One feature I was happy to see honored: Logorama. That's a very cool 16 minute animated feature.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Did you catch this one?……….
http://oscar.go.com/video/index?play...&clipId=253222

yeah, that was the shout out I was referring to...

Haven't seen the film, have you?

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

I thought the cinematography Oscar was determined by members who are cinematographers, camera operators, etc. With actors turning out to be the largest voting block that makes a little more sense to me why movies such as Slumdog Millionaire win the award over The Dark Knight or The Curious Case of Benjamin Button.

I know the docs and other tech categories are, not sure about cinematography.... For docs, you have to have proof that you've seen every nominee in order to vote.

The biggest confusing head-scratcher for me: The Hurt Locker winning the Best Sound Editing and Best Sound Mixing Oscars.

What, over Avatar? I (obviously) picked Avatar to win, but the sound design (from super quiet to super intense) was hardly a surprising win, methinks.

One feature I was happy to see honored: Logorama. That's a very cool 16 minute animated feature.

I have watched it probably 5 times since its win. As first I was upset about Walace and Gromit not taking it, but, yeah, it's a little work of genius.

Amusingly, the director pulled it from Youtube for... copyright infringement.

A weird world indeed. It's weird when part of the pleasure of a film is just thinking about the gang-raping via lawsuit that the trial lawyers are dreaming about conducting on the filmmakers...

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I see ……….Blu-ray.com is now in the 6 figure membership realm (over 100,000).
BIG Congratulations to the Owners, the Site Administrator, all the mods and all the movie reviewers.

Now working hard to add another 0

Pro-B

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I count on you telling me that I can get the Champions League in HD now on Time Warner cable...

No wonder you felt no need to thank my chump ass.

[chris0]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

I just don't feel like filling Penton-Man's thread with loads of stuff on this topic.

It's appreciated.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

I thought the cinematography Oscar was determined by members who are cinematographers, camera operators, etc. With actors turning out to be the largest voting block that makes a little more sense to me why movies such as Slumdog Millionaire win the award over The Dark Knight or The Curious Case of Benjamin Button.

I agree Avatar winning the cinematography award (or even being nominated for it) was a little odd. I'd prefer to see "old school" cinematography like that of Inglorious Basterds win. However, a great deal of live action movies are very artificial in their end result as well. The combination of techniques like digital intermediate, effects compositing, digital finishing, etc. take a filmed (or videotaped) movie a long way from how it appeared when shot on the set.

Bobby, it’s not quite the same. Even though the Digital Intermediate process can aide in the aesthetic of the final imagery, you can’t get ‘shinola’ out of ‘shite’ if that is what the digital colorist is given to work with in collaboration with the D.P., who generally sits in on all the sessions, or at the very minimum, is physically present at all those of critical importance (at rates of about $500. or more/per hour at the premier post houses).

You have to light the scenes well to begin with and not push the dynamic range of the camera………then, you can make it look extra pretty in the D.I. suite. For example, even though The White Ribbon was shot on color stock, it was lit for B&W by the Director of Photography during the principal photography. I think most D.P.s view “Cinematography” as prerequisite skill sets including things like composition and lighting, the later being critical to superb imagery, no matter what happens in post.
“CGI lighting” (if you want to call it that) is not at all correlated to real world Cinematographer lighting techniques. It involves a completely different set of skills often performed by a team of personnel that may ultimately have little collaboration with the D.P.

I think what makes the whole situation a bit awkward this year is because with AVATAR, after 18 months of motion capture - which essentially was finished except for the ‘final look’ and constitutes about 70% of the movie – following that, Jim Cameron then recruited Mauro F. (the D.P.) to shoot the live action in New Zealand.

I just foresee more of these kinds of situations arising in the future where the majority of the image ‘work’ and look is performed by a CGI team or someone who is not a ‘Cinematographer’ per se.

[Penton-Man]

I quickly scanned some of the comments whining about the 3D news items of today.
When you boil it down, it seems to me like a lot of forum members are fundamentally suffering from *upgraditis fatigue*.

Oh well……..there’s always Joe6Pack in your local neighborhood who doesn’t read any audiovideo forums at all and chances are he/she is a sports fanatic of some kind.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

No wonder you felt no need to thank my chump ass.

How 'bout those Gunners last night.

in HD!

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

...Plus, I guess you missed my Youtube link above....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxq9y...layer_embedded

That was really good. And as a computer scientist who did his thesis in image processing, I really hate all that crap.

Another good (bad) one was a scene in Alias where they just held up a SCSI hard drive to a "copying device" without plugging it in or even powering up the hard drive.

Gawd, I wish I had some of this magic pixie dust for my computer.

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by cjamescook

Well, yeah, carbon arc produces carbon monoxide, so it must be vented via a chimney through the roof, but my feeling was, so what? Obviously, I am an engineer, not a business major.

Massachusetts felt audience safety to be such a concern that carbon arc projectionists were licensed by the state (I don't know if this is still true). We had fun inscribing "licensed projectionist" on one friend's bumper.

BTW, I did visit the Omnimax theatre (IMAX Dome) at the Boston Museum of Science a couple weeks ago. They have a very nice setup, with a display case of the large film and the lamp (looks like a carbon arc in a bulb) in front of a glass-walled projection area. They also start off with a demo of the sound system by lighting it, not the screen (the screen is a scrim).

I don't know if other venues do all this, but I thought it served them well, helping the audience to appreciate what they had.

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by cjamescook

Oh, heck, even I can play this game.

Penton, concerning the sequel to the four letter franchise, will you be using the artist that performed one of the first classical recordings to go gold for the soundtrack? If not, why not? (assuming you can answer)

A synapse closed somewhere, causing me to realize I never posted the answer.

The artist here can be found at the website bearing her name: Wendy Carlos.
If you click on her discography, you will see the gold album (SO-B) and the four-letter franchise album.

She is one of my top three favorite artists.