"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

MotoGP Goes HD For 2010, 3D Documentary To Follow

Very good news.The whole article can be read here...
http://www.motomatters.com/news/2010...mentary_t.html

You mean there’s a chance I may be forced to someday watch you and/or doctorossi in 3D at an event on the circuit in the comfort of my visually protected home.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Meanwhile, Jeff, you've opened up the box - why would they have needed 5+ encodes of this film? Is this an HD-DVD encode thing? The studio vs. PJ? What's the deal...

I believe Jeff may mean that several masters were produced for the Trilogy, in other words, multiple HD masters were made before a final was selected (fairly recently) as the one to run with………..which goes directly against all the assumptions which are being spewed over the internet that “the same old master was used” for the Blu-ray editions.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

I have to say that when you get an idea you really run with it

Well, it seems I have to clean up a lot of messes around here recently.
One which I let go but which I now have time to address is “Juan’s” last comment and sentence here, https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=4284
i.e. about involving talent with their titles, which I think was totally uncalled for and inappropriate given the fact that there has been no such past history to hint such a concern or “hope” is warranted.

For the record, I think it is safe to say that SPE is the leader in regards to involving talent with their titles, especially in getting cinematographers input on remastering and restoration. We've been doing this for over fifteen years. We've built up a lot of mutual trust with them over that time.

"Juan", do you also “hope” that the sun comes up every day?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

My post was completely innocent as I did not yet know about those screencaps that look surprisingly similar for both the BR and the broadcast version......

Well, I don't look at screencaps or pay much attention to them except for gross illustrative purposes for numerous technical reasons ellucidated in the past by Deci, Josh Z, myself, etc. as they can be fraught with pitfalls and I don't have the time or inclination to do a formal review of something as long as LOTR so, I'll leave that task up to others as stated above.

Moving on.
Conversing with you reminds me of the restoration of Metropolis.
We will have a unique presentation on the technical aspects of the restoration, plus q&a on the historical initiatives at restoring the film, at the next Reel Thing, April 7 in Amsterdam, as part of the Film Biennale 2010 at the EYE Film Institute Netherlands. If anyone reading it is in the neighborhood, they are more than welcome.

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Moving on.
Conversing with you reminds me of the restoration of Metropolis.
We will have a unique presentation on the technical aspects of the restoration, plus q&a on the historical initiatives at restoring the film, at the next Reel Thing, April 7 in Amsterdam, as part of the Film Biennale 2010 at the EYE Film Institute Netherlands. If anyone reading it is in the neighborhood, they are more than welcome.

I'm tempted to go (especially after learning the tickets are free ) but I'm not sure a simple movie buff would be at his place there? Wouldn't it be far too technical for me?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

The significance of this trilogy in terms of cinematic history should not be underestimated! Allow me to quote Scott Higgins in his book published in ’07 by University of Texas Press -Harnessing the Technicolor Rainbow: Color Design in the 1930s, in which he addresses the importance of LOTR in the development of digital grading………………..”.[/B]

I find it a mixed blessing, since it's lead to so many odd and ugly colored films in the last decade.

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, it seems I have to clean up a lot of messes around here recently.
One which I let go but which I now have time to address is “Juan’s” last comment and sentence here, https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=4284
i.e. about involving talent with their titles, which I think was totally uncalled for and inappropriate given the fact that there has been no such past history to hint such a concern or “hope” is warranted.

For the record, I think it is safe to say that SPE is the leader in regards to involving talent with their titles, especially in getting cinematographers input on remastering and restoration. We've been doing this for over fifteen years. We've built up a lot of mutual trust with them over that time.

"Juan", do you also “hope” that the sun comes up every day?

LOL at the sun coming up every day

Not asking a director for collabortion on bringing a movie to Blu-Ray when he would have been happy to do so is quite embarrassing though and I also hope that Sony won't make the same mistake - Ok, just kidding as Sony is doing a great job there - credit where credit is due

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, I don't look at screencaps or pay much attention to them except for gross illustrative purposes for numerous technical reasons ellucidated in the past by Deci, Josh Z, myself, etc. as they can be fraught with pitfalls and I don't have the time or inclination to do a formal review of something as long as LOTR so, I'll leave that task up to others as stated above.

I am quite familiar with broadcast version of the LOTR movies so I could not resist the temptation to take a peek. My comment was not intended to make a definite statement other than what the caps themselves looked like and still I am somewhat surprised that they should look so similar. But I am also moving on as I am definitely not gonna watch these another time before the BR EEs are out, no matter what Mr. Jackson and/or Warner want me to see, buy or regard as definitive

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Moving on.
Conversing with you reminds me of the restoration of Metropolis.
We will have a unique presentation on the technical aspects of the restoration, plus q&a on the historical initiatives at restoring the film, at the next Reel Thing, April 7 in Amsterdam, as part of the Film Biennale 2010 at the EYE Film Institute Netherlands. If anyone reading it is in the neighborhood, they are more than welcome.

Sounds interesting but as you know I have already set my sights on Oslo in
the first week of May to attend a few events at the FIAF congress and of course to enjoy a few movies in 70mm.

Would be cool if you could point those of us who can't come to reports or other info about the Reel Thing if there will be any - so many congresses and festivals so little time

[Jeff Kleist]

I believe Jeff may mean that several masters were produced for the Trilogy, in other words, multiple HD masters were made before a final was selected (fairly recently) as the one to run with………..which goes directly against all the assumptions which are being spewed over the internet that “the same old master was used” for the Blu-ray editions.

Multiple is a tame word The whole thing started again when WB took over for NL

[captveg]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Multiple is a tame word The whole thing started again when WB took over for NL

And knowing what NL's track record was for heavy use of DNR, everyone should be *grateful* WB did this release instead.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

"Juan", do you also “hope” that the sun comes up every day?

Ah, I see you are HUME-ouring him with your epistemological quandry...

And, yes, that deserves an award for worst pun of the year...

*bow*

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

I'm tempted to go (especially after learning the tickets are free ) but I'm not sure a simple movie buff would be at his place there? Wouldn't it be far too technical for me?

I remember you as a longtime reader of the Insider forums on Blu-ray.com so, I think you should have a basic understanding of the processes involved and the terminology used even when the discussion turns rather technical.

In short, I think you’ll be just fine.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

As Joe B. so eloquently put it yesterday and I think it applies to LOTR on Blu-ray……..”This is a BIG F****ing deal , and not just for fanboys of the trilogy. What I’m getting at is that the DI process was in its infancy when LOTR came out, heck it was almost neonatal when the work was being done on FOTR because they were essentially using a Beta product at the time which evolved into what is now known among digital colorists as ‘Lustre’.

Being ignorant of these processes, would it be expensive and/or time consuming to take the original FOTR shots and re-do them with the mature 'Lustre' process?

[Grand Bob]

As a fan of Tolkien's books and the movies (and therefore admittedly biased - I'm in it strictly for enjoyment), and NOT an expert on film mastering, I am curious as to what your overall impression is of this scenario? Is the theatrical release of LoTR the end of civilization as we know it, judging from the ferocity indicated in the thread comments?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by radagast

Being ignorant of these processes, would it be expensive and/or time consuming to take the original FOTR shots and re-do them with the mature 'Lustre' process?

Well, they wouldn’t have to be redone necessarily with the Lustre platform.

But to answer your questions………yes and yes. Not to mention the fact that you would probably have to get the original filmmakers involved in the project (I’m referring to technical talent here, like the digital colorist/D.I. Supervisor and/or the traditional color timer), either voluntarily or for a fee.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

As a fan of Tolkien's books and the movies (and therefore admittedly biased - I'm in it strictly for enjoyment), and NOT an expert on film mastering, I am curious as to what your overall impression is of this scenario? Is the theatrical release of LoTR the end of civilization as we know it, judging from the ferocity indicated in the thread comments?

(bolding of your quote by me)

lol, you mean with ferocious comments of constructive criticism like this?
https://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-mo...ml#post3060598

and this -
https://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-mo...ml#post3066888

Sadly, I think at the end of the day, novice readers who are just trying to get a rudimentary handle on the picture quality of this Trilogy will walk away only remembering comments like the above and not ultimately truly learning where the alleged ‘DNR’ truth really lies (HD master or encode or neither) and its true magnitude….which is why I think it’s so important that Robert Harris reviews this Trilogy and specifically addresses the FOTR screenshot comparisons in detail in his review, as he was not reluctant to applaud their accuracy and utilization in exposing the Gangs of New York ‘malfeasance’.

Seriously, I don’t like the negative hyperbole spouted about the picture quality of LOTR over the internet but, the FOTR broadcast vs Blu-ray comparison screenshots (if they are accurate) does concern me given the cinematic importance of this Trilogy. I hope we get a clear resolution of that issue esp. since Andrew Lesnie won the Oscar for Best Cinematography with FOTR that year and this Trilogy essentially pioneered the modern day feature film post production process as we know it today……with a handful of photochemical finishing holdouts remaining < but that’s quickly becoming a lost art anyway.

P.S.
If you’re a big fan, might I suggest you purchase Kristin’s fine book………..http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/..._Interview.php
Another idea would be to shoot Bill Hunt a quick e-mail and ask if he could get her to do an interview (for historical perspective) on the Bits in relation to the recent LOTR Blu-ray release and his review, since Bill may know her. I do know for a fact that he knows her husband, David as I think they're buds from back in college.

[captveg]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

:lol, you mean with ferocious comments of constructive criticism like this?
https://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-mo...ml#post3060598

and this -
https://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-mo...ml#post3066888

Penton, this is what irritates me the most. To me, generally speaking, the internet has become dominated by the extreme hyperbole-speaking fringe. Because of this, most actual constructive criticism has a higher probability of being ignored or considered part of the extreme, which in turn makes it less likely legitimate issues get fixed, no?

So let's say, for the sake of argument, Mr. Harris reviews the set and says that FOTR was less than the best WB could have put out. Not just "done the best with available material", not just "approved of by Jackson and the film's producing team", but truly subpar what WB could have accomplished in spite of these variables.

OK then - at worst this is a Star Trek 3-4 problem in terms of "DNR" severity. This is NOT a Patton, and this is most definitely NOT a Gladiator or Gangs of New York issue. But the shouts of anguish would suggest they were. It's like there's only two types of picture qualities in the minds of these extremists - 10/10 (brilliant!) and 1/10 (utter crap!!).

My question then is: how are the studios even able to stand getting through all the white noise in order to find the legitimate severe problems they would feel worth while to revisit?

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by captveg

To me, generally speaking, the internet has become dominated by the extreme hyperbole-speaking fringe.

NO WAY! THAT'S BS, IDIOT!!1!eleventy-six!!

Originally Posted by captveg

Because of this, most actual constructive criticism has a higher probability of being ignored or considered part of the extreme, which in turn makes it less likely legitimate issues get fixed, no?

Wait... wha?

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by captveg

Penton, this is what irritates me the most. To me, generally speaking, the internet has become dominated by the extreme hyperbole-speaking fringe. Because of this, most actual constructive criticism has a higher probability of being ignored or considered part of the extreme, which in turn makes it less likely legitimate issues get fixed, no?

So let's say, for the sake of argument, Mr. Harris reviews the set and says that FOTR was less than the best WB could have put out. Not just "done the best with available material", not just "approved of by Jackson and the film's producing team", but truly subpar what WB could have accomplished in spite of these variables.

OK then - at worst this is a Star Trek 3-4 problem in terms of "DNR" severity. This is NOT a Patton, and this is most definitely NOT a Gladiator or Gangs of New York issue. But the shouts of anguish would suggest they were. It's like there's only two types of picture qualities in the minds of these extremists - 10/10 (brilliant!) and 1/10 (utter crap!!).

My question then is: how are the studios even able to stand getting through all the white noise in order to find the legitimate severe problems they would feel worth while to revisit?

If Jackson approved it, I don't think Warner will revisit it at all, despite all the complaining.
Although, I have to say there is a lot of complaining going on for titles that prior to this incident, nobody would buy because they weren't the extended versions. But that might be me.

[captveg]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

If Jackson approved it, I don't think Warner will revisit it at all, despite all the complaining.

Oh, I totally agree. I put the odds at Warner doing anything other than moving along on their merry way at about 1000:1. And he did approve it. This is 100% fact.

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

Although, I have to say there is a lot of complaining going on for titles that prior to this incident, nobody would buy because they weren't the extended versions. But that might be me.

Indeed!