"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

I cannot be held responsible that you don't have live coverage on at work the way everybody in this town does.

I think the operative word here is …..”work”.

Of which I’m just leaving right now...while you’re probably on your third beer, or so.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I think the operative word here is …..”work”.

Of which I’m just leaving right now...while you’re probably on your third beer, or so.

I really sounded that drunk? Sorry... Sober, I swear. (yes, contrary to the stereotype I know...)

Good day for matches tomorrow, as my 'hood will once again be inundated by pre-embittered Greece fans...

[aygie]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Dudes!
I haven’t watched Spain vs. Switzerland yet!

Let's at least allow some people time to return home from work and view the matches in the evenings.

It was a fantastic game.

[Penton-Man]

I received a couple PM’s asking me for my thoughts on this article…
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...ure-Technology

All I’ll say is…yes, I remember Neil Thompson well from the days of the format war –
http://bink.nu/news/microsoft-execs-...-strategy.aspx

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

I really sounded that drunk? Sorry... Sober, I swear. (yes, contrary to the stereotype I know...)
Good day for matches tomorrow, as my 'hood will once again be inundated by pre-embittered Greece fans...

Don’t worry about it. So far I’ve been able to stay current with all the day’s matches I'm personally interested in, by about midnight the same evening, so feel free to express your uninhibited thoughts about any match results after… let’s say 8:00 A.M. the following morning in order to give any other folks a chance to catch up.
Fair enough?

Prior to that time, for fun, maybe you should Google ‘Durban and Great White Shark’ and check out some of the links, like this –
http://forum.gardenroute.com/showthr...-to-Mossel-Bay

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by aygie

It was a fantastic game.

Indeed …I was actually hoping that something like that would have happened during the USA vs. England match.

A great triumph for the Swiss and I’m not really worried that Spain won’t make it through, despite the loss. Plus, even if the Swiss hadn’t of scored on that mishap, with the replays, it kinda looked to me like the Spanish defender could easily have been called for hand ball while on the ground, thusly leading to a PK due to PK’s wandering hands.

[HeavyHitter]

Penton,

Do you have any insight or information (filmmakers involvement, etc.) on the new Predator BD which seems to be causing a debate on all of the forums? Based on *screencaps* and early reviews, it seems to have been degrained compared to the original release, however, it appears it actually may contain a bit more detail as it has a new AVC encode as well as improved gamma, color correction, etc.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Penton,

Do you have any insight or information (filmmakers involvement, etc.) on the new Predator BD which seems to be causing a debate on all of the forums? Based on *screencaps* and early reviews, it seems to have been degrained compared to the original release, however, it appears it actually may contain a bit more detail as it has a new AVC encode as well as improved gamma, color correction, etc.

Sorry Heavy, I don’t know anything about the Predator BD. If memory serves, fellow Insider Cliff was quite familiar with the previous packaged home media product as well as the theatrical presentation so you might want to shoot him a query regarding your concern. You may also want to ping Jeff, as I think he said several weeks ago that Fox produced a new master for this BD movie.

I haven’t been following “the debate on all of the forums” or even on this forum (if even there is one here) but I assume from your tone and implication that it is the typical *excessive DNR* allegation melodramatics?…whether true and accurate or unfounded and exaggerated. Which begs the bigger question…”How really effective in the long-term was the online forums’ outcry (for months) directed against 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment with the Patton internet *debacle*? Apparently, not much, if this is indeed yet another product characterized by needlessly excessive grain reduction.

So, before sharkshark gets to this one, if the screencaps are accurate, I score it:
Online Activists – 0
Grain Haters -1

All I can offer you is that if you are a fan of the film and are ever planning a trip to Puerto Vallarta, then I highly recommend this tour …
http://studenttravel.about.com/od/pu...aloya.-0-n.htm

In regards to grain removal tools, I’ve evaluated many of them (from different companies) and I’ve yet seen one that really removes grain without at the same time, removing detail – despite the claims of the vendors. It always comes down to a trade-off as to whether the side effects of the de-grainer *are better or worse* than the aesthetic appearance of too much grain or grainy inconsistency from scene to scene, which some modern day viewers may find objectionable.

Grover feels much the same in regards to dnr tools… http://www.dvdfile.com/views/article...ome-media-expo

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

question…”How really effective in the long-term was the online forums’ outcry (for months) directed against 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment with the Patton internet *debacle*?

Well, not very... Which begs the question, what prompted Sony to listen to such pressure re: Fifth Element? Was it because it was early in the life of the format?

Anyhoo, the challenge it seems with Predator (I've not heard of the issue before now) is that the original release was noisy and lacked all the extras, but the new version makes Patton look downright glorious.

Hey, I'm just reporting here...

To quote I think a pretty valid response:

Originally Posted by Cliff

Well, I haven’t seen the finished disc yet, so I can’t comment with any confidence and I’m not someone who feels comfortable evaluating an entire disc via screen grabs.

But what I can say is that everything I said was going to happen, DID HAPPEN. If you really pay attention to these last 10 pages, from almost all of the people saying they prefer the look of the new version, they’re not really raving about how much better encoded it is. Instead, it’s all about how much “better” it looks now that Fox has gotten rid of all that pesky grain. People complained for years that the movie looked bad, so Fox changed the look of the movie to make them happy. They actually thought they were complaining that the disc looked bad, but didn’t know enough to realize they were actually complaining about the movie itself despite REPEATED reminders. And sadly, this will be, WITHOUT FAIL, a more popular edition than the original release so look for more of these types of Wal-Mart ‘restorations’ in the future. This is the shrapnel we sometimes have to take because Blu-ray was thrown out there with such a wide net in which to bring the most people back into the format. The quality and technical appreciation of the movie now often takes a distant back seat to simply how great a disc can make your display look and how much noise your speakers can pump out. There is a certain irony to the declaration that people complaining about the new Predator release are only doing so to justify their original purchases while at the same time a lot of these DNR ‘remasters’ are preferred by the masses because it helps THEM to justify their HDTV and receiver purchases. Look at all the people complaining about how poor the original disc sounded. A lossless copy of a 1987 soundtrack doesn’t sound as good as Transformers… I wonder why?

Now, I want to be very clear that I’m not saying anybody is wrong for preferring the new disc over the older one. It’s absolutely nothing more than preference and your right to enjoy whichever one you want and I can certainly understand the appeal. But don’t be shocked or offended when people are upset that Fox changed the overall look of the movie to appeal to a larger, but (sorry) less appreciative customer base. It's cool to like the look of the new edition, but just be honest about it and acknowledge that the original look wasn't preserved and you're enjoying an altered edition. Don't make stupid and, quite frankly, embarrassing suppositions that this was the way Predator always looked and it just took this long to finally get it right. At least in this case we have the original release for those that prefer the intended look over the updated visuals. With other releases we aren’t always so lucky.

This all makes me miss the LaserDisc days when a great disc simply meant the movie was in right (or close to it) aspect ratio.

Ok, I just have to comment on this because it’s one of the dumbest ****ing things I think I’ve ever come across. Sorry, but it just is. I compared a new 35mm print to the original Blu-ray literally no more than an hour apart. So should I place more validity into that comparison or should I throw that out and rely solely on your comparisons which were, let me just guess, 20+ years apart? Since your memory was good enough and this viewing was obviously such a seminal event for you to remember without fail 20+ years later, let me also ask… What show time did you see? What were the previews the played before the movie? What were you wearing to the movie that day? What was the temperature the day you saw it? What day of the week did you see it?

Why do people still pretend they remember exactly what a movie looked like 2 decades ago (projected under very likely questionable conditions and a movie that would most likely have meant nothing to them until it was over)?

[Jeff Kleist]

Ok, I just have to comment on this because it’s one of the dumbest ****ing things I think I’ve ever come across. Sorry, but it just is. I compared a new 35mm print to the original Blu-ray literally no more than an hour apart. So should I place more validity into that comparison or should I throw that out and rely solely on your comparisons which were, let me just guess, 20+ years apart? Since your memory was good enough and this viewing was obviously such a seminal event for you to remember without fail 20+ years later, let me also ask… What show time did you see? What were the previews the played before the movie? What were you wearing to the movie that day? What was the temperature the day you saw it? What day of the week did you see it?

Actually Cliff, I can tell you a lot of that information about stuff from that long ago. For some reason I have a near-photographic memory of a lot of my childhood movie experiences, Back in the days when there were actually 10 local theaters to choose from that we went to. For example I can tell you that I saw Empire Strikes Back for the first time at age 3, and I insisted we sit close in the front row, left side (it'd been split into a twin screen) at the Eric Ardmore theater, Star Wars I saw for the first time after that during the 82 reissue and that was middle left side in an afternoon show. Technically I saw it in '77, but it was in utero so I have no idea night/day or showtimes I have no idea why I have this ability, but I do. I don't think I was paying attention to quality of the presentation however

[chris0]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Plus, even if the Swiss hadn’t of scored on that mishap, with the replays...

That's so unlike you. Are you feeling OK?

[PeterTHX]

For all fools who think screenshot science is "harmless":
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=834

Fight the good fight Penton.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

For all fools who think screenshot science is "harmless":
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=834

Fight the good fight Penton.

again, point's taken Peter, but really the fight is about the -misuse- of screenshots to draw improper conclusions. The issue isn't that people are wasting time on making or viewing them, it's that they are (often) used by people who don't know any better to make conclusions about the film, its encoding, etc., etc.

The REAL good fight, however, is to ensure that the releases are as top notch as possible. If there's an argument to be made that the BD release of LOTR is disappointing without resorting to the use of screencaps, great! THAT would be the real "fight" to wage. Instead, we've got lots of vitriol about Xylon et all amounting to little more than a distraction from the real issue, terrifically ironic given that screencaps themselves are often a distraction from how the BD actually looks in motion.

But, yeah, old argument. Amusing to see Xylon's caps in a printed magazine (and, yes, I'm ascribing ownership of "his" caps in an ironic way, for those itching to flame).

[sharkshark]

ps. Sorry, Penton, thanks for the link above.

THAT'S A BIG FRICKIN' SHARK!

[sharkshark]

pps. So, with the upset yesterday, my 'hood exploded in an orgy of celebration yesterday, with not only Greece's first ever cup goal, but their first ever WIN!

If you missed that match, you missed a heck of a game - the Nigerian goalie as been on FIRE (and it seems that Arsenal were close to signing him... That would have been great!)

But, of course, they screwed it up:

http://www.imscouting.com/global-new...eama-but/2327/

sigh...

HE TAKES PENALTY KICKS! How awesome is that...

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Well, not very... Which begs the question, what prompted Sony to listen to such pressure re: Fifth Element? Was it because it was early in the life of the format?

Despite what some audiovideo forums and bloggers think of themselves in terms of online empowerment to provide “pressure” to studios by their postings against DNR, BD Live, 3D etc., the “listening” aspect was really related to empathy on part of people at the studio who desired to upgrade an initial suboptimal software offering in order to give enthusiasts the very best quality (no expense barred) Blu-ray rendition of a cult classic as a gesture of good will.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by chris0

That's so unlike you. Are you feeling OK?

lol, when you read it back, that does sound pretty lousy.
Yeah, I’m feeling fine, that’s just an example of the fact that I no longer have the time to proof read all my posts for spelling and grammar.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

For all fools who think screenshot science is "harmless":
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=834

Fight the good fight Penton.

It’s a pity that publications like that pick up and run with flawed analyses like *screenshot science* without first giving a primer or warning as to its inherent pitfalls in regards to using it as conclusive evidence for detailed picture analysis of an entire movie…something of which we’ve discussed numerous times here in detail and I personally don’t care to get into again, at least not during World Cup action. I’ll leave that up to you other guys here who have more energy than me.

I’ll just remind folks that it is not uncommon for compressionists to customize certain scenes with parameters (such as grain reduction) differently than the general encoding settings for the entire movie. Whether or not that is the case with FOTR, I don't know as I still haven't viewed the Blu-ray.

Peter, you’ve got to look at the situation in a glass half full manner …meaning

Result #1 -
if the screenshots which Cliff is referring to above are accurate to real time viewing of Predator on a calibrated display at home...and are representative of the grain structure of the entire motion picture, then it seems to me that the content provider just flipped the bird to the *screenshot scientists* who despise any smoothing at the expense of detail and ranted about Patton for months.

If, on the other hand,

Result #2 -
the screenshots are misleading…then, it’s yet another example of the *science* being flawed or misused. Either way, *screenshot scientists* lose this match.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

If, on the other hand, the screenshots are misleading…then, it’s yet another example of the *science* being flawed or misused. Either way, *screenshot scientists* loose this match.

Much like people have lost the ability to spell lose without adding an extra "o"

Of course Penton noted this:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I no longer have the time to proof read all my posts for spelling and grammar.

It just seems right now people are using the same "Jump To Conclusions" mat on Predator they used on FOTR. From what he's said I don't think Cliff has viewed the full finished product for himself in the proper environment yet.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

HE TAKES PENALTY KICKS! How awesome is that...

Lets see him take these kinds of kicks...





They found something even more annoying than soccer talk in a Blu-ray.com thread...those stupid horns.