"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Vincent Pereira

Darius Khondji said much the same in the 'AMERICAN CINEMATOGRAPHER' piece on CHERI- that even at 4K the DI didn't look as good as the straight "analog" dailes printed off the negative.

Well “as good” doesn’t tell me, or us, how far *off* the dailies digital colorist was.

These days you can get pretty damn close. I would blame the post house…not the process. He should have sent the material back and have the digital colorist do it again and if there is still a problem, then use another facility in the future.

It can be done.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Vincent Pereira

John Bailey also had an interview in a recent AC where he too argued against using DIs on anamorphic films (although he was forced to do so by the studio on HE'S JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU), so it's not like Wally P is some lone renegade nutjob on this front.

I’m familiar with the interview. Allegedly, New Line “forced” John B. to have a 2K DI done for that motion picture and the post process was plagued with less than ideal circumstances. Namely, the decision was made at the end of the shoot to do a 2K DI….No? Additionally, by that time John was involved in shooting an entirely new motion picture and had little hands-on input into the DI due to logistical purposes of flying from the east to the west coast on weekends and being very busy with his new project. Anyway, I don’t want to bring John B. into this discussion but, I think you inadvertently kinda hit the nail on the head.

I think Wally’s latest rant was also a lot of reactionary rhetoric aimed at WB because they allegedly tried to “force” him to do a DI for Inception, which he resisted, thus the attitude. Keep in mind, Inception has more vfx than any other Chris Nolan film….something like 700-800 vfx shots, according to the Editor, if memory serves from the discussion in early June.

Anyway, 4K is generally considered the optimal scanning resolution for S35. For 35mm anamorphic photography shot outdoors on slower film stock, a few folks say 6K is all that’s necessary but, even that's debatable, given human visual acuity.

Fact of the matter is, Wally has the power to get even a 6K scan of his preferred film format, if he cared to, just like he has the power to resist studio pressure to do a DI in the first place. WB isn’t that cheap to deny a 4K or 6K scan to him given how much money Christopher’s motion pictures make the studio.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Now that's better.

Paul says Spain….
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/...news/#38174925

Damn my new computer at home is FAST, more RAM than you have Sharkshark

Liar, I'm running 12gb.

[Vincent Pereira]

Very interesting stuff there, Penton. I'd actually love to hear one of Wally's real rants, too bad they aren't on-line somewhere like Mr. Gibson's recent ugly indiscretions...

Regarding INCEPTION, I have a question re: the IMAX version if you might know the answer. The AC article says the 35mm timed IP was scanned at 4K for the IMAX blow-up- is this inclusive of the 65mm material? Or did they use the original scans of the 65mm footage for the IMAX version? I'm debating whether to see this in IMAX and whether they used the original 65mm scans vs. the 35mm reductions for the IMAX version will be the deciding factor.

Vincent

[42041]

Originally Posted by Vincent Pereira

Darius Khondji said much the same in the 'AMERICAN CINEMATOGRAPHER' piece on CHERI- that even at 4K the DI didn't look as good as the straight "analog" dailes printed off the negative.

It's a bit frustrating that cinematographers/directors would use a frame of reference that, realistically, a final release print shown in a commercial cinema cannot approach...
Out of curiosity, I'm going to see Inception on both a Sony 4K projector and a 35mm print... I have doubts the 35mm will compare favorably in a "realistic" screening situation.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Anyway, 4K is generally considered the optimal scanning resolution for S35. For 35mm anamorphic photography shot outdoors on slower film stock, a few folks say 6K is all that’s necessary but, even that's debatable, given human visual acuity.

Fact of the matter is, Wally has the power to get even a 6K scan of his preferred film format, if he cared to, just like he has the power to resist studio pressure to do a DI in the first place. WB isn’t that cheap to deny a 4K or 6K scan to him given how much money Christopher’s motion pictures make the studio.

...I'm all for digital, particularly for times where it can do things you simply couldn't do optically with any kind of accuracy. However, just as shooting on film stock vs video is an aesthetic choice, I don't disparage those DOPs that feel, perhaps strongly, that the digital tools simply cannot impart the same look/feel as their preferred optical workflow.

I, however, take your point - there's no need to denigrate the digital workflow in order to support the "traditional" method - (ie., "digital sucks!", as paraded by many a vinylphile).

At the same time, disappointed with his denigration of digital, I assume you equally would take his point that for some things the "old" method may be preferred to achieve a given look. Plus, you'll also, I'd think, be one of the first to agree that the dude can make a motion picture look damn purdy, no matter his (somewhat reactionary) derision of DI.

ps. I've got $5 on Uruguay, and $15 on Spain. I might lose even MORE money...!

[sharkshark]

hey, for a good 10 minutes the shark was looking as smart as the Octopus, at 2-1...

heck of a game, it's anyone's still...

[sharkshark]

oh, my... off the bar!!!

well, congrats to Oliver and the rest of the Deutschies...

Forlan should have scored...

[DenonCI]

Penton,

Just caught up on your thread, but I wanted to give an update on my adventures in the WSOP Main Event.

Sadly, I busted-out day one with about 30 minutes to go. Needless to say, luck was not with me all day and it culminated in one of the worst bad beats I've experienced (especially given the stage of my first main event). Anyway, with 30 minutes to go I'm dealt a pair a queens. I bet 4 times the big blind ($1600) and get two callers. The flop comes 10, J, 4 and they guy in early position bets out $3k and I call (the third player folds). At this point, I put the guy on a top pair (Aces or Kings based upon the way he played all day). Anyway, the turn comes and it's a Queen (paydirt). I now have top-set (for you non-poker guys, this is one hell of a hand). He bets into me 1/2 my remaining chips and I instantly push all-in. He thinks about it for about 10 seconds and calls my bet. We turn our cards over and he shows a pair of Aces. At this point, his chance of winning is only 5% (only two Aces left in the deck--2/44=approximately 5%). The river comes and breaks my heart--one of the two Aces left in the deck and my dreams of becoming the 2010 world champion are over. If I would have won that hand I would have been just under chip average moving into Day 2. Oh well, that's Poker for you.

The only good news is I entered a smaller tournament today and came in second place for a nice cash prize that paid for my expenses on the trip. Better luck next year!

PS Too bad about Germany. They played their worst game of the World Cup at the most inopportune time.

[sharkshark]

Ah, was wondering how your day was going... Sorry to hear about the bust out, me I'd be paranoid (irrationally) about the weasel straight with slick, people sticking with the inside despite the (accurate, book wise) raise that you pulled. It's why I have never done well at a tournament, I'm always against people pulling inside straights or rivering me despite doing what "should" be right.

At any rate, congrats on the second tourney (where did you play it?), and enjoy LV. If you have a chance, go try the Carpaccio at Carnevino, it's super awesome... Or, if not, go grab a Fatburger for me...

Originally Posted by DenonCI

Penton,

Just caught up on your thread, but I wanted to give an update on my adventures in the WSOP Main Event.

Sadly, I busted-out day one with about 30 minutes to go. Needless to say, luck was not with me all day and it culminated in one of the worst bad beats I've experienced (especially given the stage of my first main event). Anyway, with 30 minutes to go I'm dealt a pair a queens. I bet 4 times the big blind ($1600) and get two callers. The flop comes 10, J, 4 and they guy in early position bets out $3k and I call (the third player folds). At this point, I put the guy on a top pair (Aces or Kings based upon the way he played all day). Anyway, the turn comes and it's a Queen (paydirt). I now have top-set (for you non-poker guys, this is one hell of a hand). He bets into me 1/2 my remaining chips and I instantly push all-in. He thinks about it for about 10 seconds and calls my bet. We turn our cards over and he shows a pair of Aces. At this point, his chance of winning is only 5% (only two Aces left in the deck--2/44=approximately 5%). The river comes and breaks my heart--one of the two Aces left in the deck and my dreams of becoming the 2010 world champion are over. If I would have won that hand I would have been just under chip average moving into Day 2. Oh well, that's Poker for you.

The only good news is I entered a smaller tournament today and came in second place for a nice cash prize that paid for my expenses on the trip. Better luck next year!

PS Too bad about Germany. They played their worst game of the World Cup at the most inopportune time.

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Ah, was wondering how your day was going... Sorry to hear about the bust out, me I'd be paranoid (irrationally) about the weasel straight with slick, people sticking with the inside despite the (accurate, book wise) raise that you pulled. It's why I have never done well at a tournament, I'm always against people pulling inside straights or rivering me despite doing what "should" be right.

At any rate, congrats on the second tourney (where did you play it?), and enjoy LV. If you have a chance, go try the Carpaccio at Carnevino, it's super awesome... Or, if not, go grab a Fatburger for me...

Mini-tournament was at O'Shea's. It was only a $45 buy-in and I won just under $500. Add that to the money I won from the seat and my net cost is Vegas is a +$50 or so. Thankfully I fly a lot for work so it cost me $5 round trip (damn government fees) and I got a discount rate at the Rio for playing in the tournament. I'm flying home in the morning and have no regrets at all. I got my money in right and unfortunately couldn't beat the one thing out of my control--LUCK!

On a positive note, I came to the realization that I'm actually pretty darn good at poker. At my table were 7 professional players and I held my own with them all day. I plan on trying to win a seat next year and I'll give it my best shot again. In the mean time, I'll play a tournament or two a week to further hone my skills. Thus far I've played in 33 events and I've cashed in 21 of them, so my winning percentage is pretty good. Hopefully I can get better over the next year and the pros better be wary of me in 2011

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Liar, I'm running 12gb.

Now I know how President Obama felt!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Vincent Pereira

Very interesting stuff there, Penton. I'd actually love to hear one of Wally's real rants, too bad they aren't on-line somewhere like Mr. Gibson's recent ugly indiscretions...

Regarding INCEPTION, I have a question re: the IMAX version if you might know the answer...

Honestly, I don’t know. He only spoke briefly on that topic shortly after making his disparaging comment about the progressive evolution of digital home media movie software with an indirect condescending cut at Blu-ray…..at which time I immediately toned him out in disbelief as to his attitude which I found a bit snobbish…..as in ‘theatrical film snob’.

I mean it’s not like everyone has the funds nor even the inclination to go out to their local Multiplex on a regular basis to watch a motion picture but, they still love watching movies…even if only at home.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

...I assume you equally would take his point that for some things the "old" method may be preferred to achieve a given look. Plus, you'll also, I'd think, be one of the first to agree that the dude can make a motion picture look damn purdy, no matter his (somewhat reactionary) derision of DI.

Yes, I agree unequivocally with you on both counts. Additionally, he’s been so successful at his craft that he only needs to do a few commercials between his gigs with Chris Nolan. You can’t argue with success …esp. when you have a family to support.

Keep in mind though that the optical workflow is becoming a lost art….FAST and many who still employ that process only trust a handful of facilities today to do everything correctly.

Also, for some real world balance, Vilmos Zsigmond was also a big proponent of anamorphic and after he shot The Black Dahlia with a 4K post, he automatically became a fan of S35.

Respectfully, Wally is no Vilmos….I think it was Lloyd Bentsen who said that.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

The only good news is I entered a smaller tournament today and came in second place for a nice cash prize that paid for my expenses on the trip.

[Penton-Man]

Got to go to sleep early tonight. Big day tomorrow with an early morning group ride, the World Cup Final to watch and a potential definitive mountain stage in the Tour de France.

[Vincent Pereira]

I'm shocked and amazed that anybody working in the film industry would make condescending comments re: Blu-ray as a delivery format. A well-mastered BD from a proper film-to-video transfer literally LOOKS LIKE FILM. Even on the largest front-projection system, it can look like a near-perfectly projected pristine answer-print, so what's the problem?

Vincent

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Honestly, I don’t know. He only spoke briefly on that topic shortly after making his disparaging comment about the progressive evolution of digital home media movie software with an indirect condescending cut at Blu-ray…..at which time I immediately toned him out in disbelief as to his attitude which I found a bit snobbish…..as in ‘theatrical film snob’.

I mean it’s not like everyone has the funds nor even the inclination to go out to their local Multiplex on a regular basis to watch a motion picture but, they still love watching movies…even if only at home.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Vincent Pereira

Even on the largest front-projection system, it can look like a near-perfectly projected pristine answer-print, so what's the problem?

It's the "nearly" part (I'm guessing). Keep in mind, this is a guy who's now, when possible, shooting Imax. Not "fauxmax", real, honest-to-God Imax. Nothing comes close in terms of digital projection, period. The Dark Knight Blu Ray taunts me every time, saying "you fool! this is nothing compared to the theatrical experience!". What's weird is that it does so in a Maldovan accent, for reasons unaccounted for.

I've not seen his comments, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were slightly exaggerated through retelling, and were of the same ilk at the decades Neil Young et. al. disparaged CDs as being "digital crap", even refusing to release certain titles on the format until "high def" formats like DVD-A came along.

I'm sure in the cool light of dawn WP would find lots of value in a well produced BD, but, seriously, is it so insane to not say that in an ideal world you'd be watching every film you could on a big screen? In Wally's world, that's exactly what he -can- do (I picture Hollywood working like this, he picks up the phone, dials a secret number, and says "hey, this is Wally... setup the Chinese for a private screening for me and my buds and strike a new print of Apocalypse, k? Cheers..."

Again, I've got no idea what his comments were, or how strongly he feels, but I fear that (like Kubrick and the 4:3 sillyness) things may be taken out of context mildly, and that given the opportunities that HE has regarding theatrical screenings, I'd be taking his side over home shiny disc any time.

But, that said, we're realists here, even buying our own discs to watch. So, yeah... go Blu Ray...

[sharkshark]

[Penton-Man]

Shark – so how did you end up doing with your office pool? The Final was quite boring except for your pic above.

Jim SD – We’re all watching the Tour de France right now (commercial/nature break). Did you see that wild boar they showed on the aerial view running through the field in the Alps?