"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I foresee a new use of digital manipulation for 3D post production specialists, i.e. quelling the fears of some actresses….

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment...tmans-3D-worry

Again, back to the boobs... Can't we agree that she needs NO artificial manipulation?

Having had the pleasure of meeting her in person, I assure you she's perfectly stunning just the way she is.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Again, back to the boobs... Can't we agree that she needs NO artificial manipulation?

Having had the pleasure of meeting her in person, I assure you she's perfectly stunning just the way she is.

I agree, Nat's great. She has nothing to worry about.

Though I might understand if she felt a little self-conscious being around Kat Dennings...

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Anyway, I don’t want to dominate this thread with downsampling algo talk; otherwise I'll fall asleep at the keyboard and we'll probably drive everyone but Spears away so, speaking of other expertise, I’ve just been informed of the credentials of the guy that did the Gladiator review which I linked here -
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post3546616

Apparently, he has been reviewing home entertainment software media for years, if not decades , so he’s not a duffer and his name is John Puccio, if anyone is familiar with him from the days of DVDs and such.

Penton,

John and I are friends. I trust his eyes and what he witnessed. I got my hands on a "new" copy of Gladiator today from Brenda and will do a comparison tomorrow and post my thoughts.

Also, check out the crazies at AVS regarding John's review: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=18961881

fuzz!'s post is a real hoot!

Best,

[madshi]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

Also, check out the crazies at AVS regarding John's review: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=18961881

It's kind of interesting that every time the AVS screenshot guys complain about a Blu-Ray transfer, people here are saying: "They are never satisfied, they are not happy if they can't find anything to complain about". But when the AVS screenshot guys then defend a Blu-Ray transfer and tell reviewers that their scores are too low for a specific Blu-Ray transfer, people here are saying: "Check out the crazies at AVS". You can't have it both ways.

FWIW, the post you're linking to does have a valid point. John's review states that the lack of DNR is not so easy to appreciate. This is a weird thing to say, as the difference is extremely visible to most people.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by madshi

It's kind of interesting that every time the AVS screenshot guys complain about a Blu-Ray transfer, people here are saying: "They are never satisfied, they are not happy if they can't find anything to complain about". But when the AVS screenshot guys then defend a Blu-Ray transfer and tell reviewers that their scores are too low for a specific Blu-Ray transfer, people here are saying: "Check out the crazies at AVS". You can't have it both ways.

Sorry, but it's almost always the former, rather than the latter.

It's to the point where people are surprised when they DO like something.

As Penton has said, they've completely alienated the studios and insiders.

[Dennis M]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

As Penton has said, they've completely alienated the studios and insiders.

And long standing members of the forum, who have now moved on.

It used to be a place where you could have an open and informed discussion.

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by madshi

It's kind of interesting that every time the AVS screenshot guys complain about a Blu-Ray transfer, people here are saying: "They are never satisfied, they are not happy if they can't find anything to complain about". But when the AVS screenshot guys then defend a Blu-Ray transfer and tell reviewers that their scores are too low for a specific Blu-Ray transfer, people here are saying: "Check out the crazies at AVS". You can't have it both ways.

FWIW, the post you're linking to does have a valid point. John's review states that the lack of DNR is not so easy to appreciate. This is a weird thing to say, as the difference is extremely visible to most people.

John sits very close to a 52 inch display (around 1.5 screen widths). What the nuts are saying is that watching the movie in motion isn't the way to compare it and the "only valid method" is to use screen captures.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Again, back to the boobs...

Hey, she said it, I didn’t and whatever talent wants….talent gets.
If you want me to get off the boobs then you should hear what Cameron Diaz really thinks about her butt sometime.

We might be asked to enhance that in 3D if/when the time comes.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

John sits very close to a 52 inch display (around 1.5 screen widths). What the nuts are saying is that watching the movie in motion isn't the way to compare it and the "only valid method" is to use screen captures.

Well, I certainly don't agree with that screenshots are the "only valid method" to compare movie image quality. Of course there are different methods with different effectiveness. Right on top would be to setup two identical displays and Blu-Ray players next to each other, to allow a direct comparison. John had to walk to another room to compare. But to be honest, the difference in image quality is so big that even if you watch the old BD one day and the other BD the next day, it should be pretty obvious how much more detail the new BD has.

Originally Posted by DenonCI

What the nuts are saying

I wouldn't judge all AVSForum posters by one post of a single person. Come on, you're better than that!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

Penton,

John and I are friends. I trust his eyes and what he witnessed. I got my hands on a "new" copy of Gladiator today from Brenda and will do a comparison tomorrow and post my thoughts.

Also, check out the crazies at AVS regarding John's review: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=18961881

fuzz!'s post is a real hoot!

Best,

Hey, you don’t know the half of it. VincentP went after your buddy late last night and I was compelled to tip my toe in the water over there because I felt sorry for the poor fellow.

Geez, Vincent lighten up there a little. Even if John were wrong, it's a rather benign mistake for any reviewer to make, as you can see that he's basing his thoughts upon both what the DP allegedly said in an old AC article and the imdb specs which come directly from the studios for feature films.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by madshi

It's kind of interesting that every time the AVS screenshot guys complain about a Blu-Ray transfer, people here are saying: "They are never satisfied, they are not happy if they can't find anything to complain about". But when the AVS screenshot guys then defend a Blu-Ray transfer and tell reviewers that their scores are too low for a specific Blu-Ray transfer, people here are saying: "Check out the crazies at AVS". You can't have it both ways.

lol, not me. I think I’m very consistent in my opinion of them. I dislike even when they “defend a Blu-ray” with their flawed *screenshot science*.

[DenonCI]

I'll be comparing the two discs later today using two different players going to a calibrated front projection system and will be able to switch "on the fly" with only about a 5 second delay as the old HDMI handshake takes place. John's metheds weren't perfect, but he has a pretty good eye IMO.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by madshi

FWIW, the post you're linking to does have a valid point. John's review states that the lack of DNR is not so easy to appreciate. This is a weird thing to say, as the difference is extremely visible to most people.

madshi, have you viewed the actual 2010 Blu-ray of Gladiator or are you going by screenshots? From John’s review and comments about the 2009 version, I take it that the main, predominating problem he’s seeing is the excessive sharpening that’s damaged many of the scenes in the ’09 version (not detail loss from degraining)…..and this sharpening is variable as to its severity seen throughout the movie.

No?

P.S.
I notice that you posted on that Gladiator thread in AVS too and I’m impressed in your unbiased outlook when you stamped out that theory that *DNR* would be responsible for such a color shift noted in the screenshots. Pure internet bullsh*t. I have never seen such a considerable color shift even when a degrainer is used at the bottom of the stack and theoretically, if it ever did occur, the operator could easily go back and tweak the colors back on a second pass after degraining.

A tip of the hat for that.

I would also like to commend OliverK for posting Roger Ebert’s *food for thought* for those with apparent selective memory loss as to the presentation of Gladiator at their local cinema when it was first released…

https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post3548172

It’s funny how some "enthusiasts" can easily recollect colors and grain structure from less hotly debated movies….15, 20 or even more years ago….. when they are so inclined to do so.

Kudos OliverK.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

lol, not me. I think I’m very consistent in my opinion of them. I dislike even when they “defend a Blu-ray” with their flawed *screenshot science*.

IMHO screenshot comparisons *can* be misleading, if done wrong. E.g. screenshots could be taken with wrong colors. Or "I" frames could be compared to non-"I" frames, which would be unfair. However, if done right, especially when paired with an "in motion" comparison, IMHO screenshot comparisons can be quite revealing and helpful. But I guess we shouldn't discuss this topic here, because we would just pollute this thread...

Originally Posted by DenonCI

I'll be comparing the two discs later today using two different players going to a calibrated front projection system and will be able to switch "on the fly" with only about a 5 second delay as the old HDMI handshake takes place.

Looking forward to your impressions. I'm quite positive that the detail increase in the new BD will knock you out of your socks. The requirement for that is, though, that you're resistent against falling for fake detail produced by sharpening.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

that theory that *DNR* would be responsible for such a color shift

WHA?!

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by madshi

But I guess we shouldn't discuss this topic here, because we would just pollute this thread...

There's a concept!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Sorry, but it's almost always the former, rather than the latter.
It's to the point where people are surprised when they DO like something.
As Penton has said, they've completely alienated the studios and insiders.

Regarding the screenshot scientists, I’m sure there must be a redeeming value for giant hissing cockroaches too…..I just haven’t figured out what it is yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbKHYXTMhCw&feature=fvsr

The disgruntled ones left over from the format war think of me not as Penton-Man but as the Orkin-Man – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RJoicvy-Wo

I would like to say that I readily welcome with open arms some of the most notorious AVSers from the old days of the format war, if they, like me, have *let it go* and are not inclined just to make trouble (ala *screenshot scientists*). With that in mind, and as proof of my principled outlook, I see that Robert Zohn is a new member here but probably too embarrassed to open his mouth for fear he might get castigated but, I welcome him, especially into our new 3D forum section for his valuable insights and opinions because as a professional retailer, he has access to a variety of 3D displays and such that other members may find helpful who can’t attend demos and do direct comparisons as easily. He should also be an asset for his knowledge of 2D Blu-ray brand electronics and to its reliability over time, based on his experience with dealing with past customers’ complaints.

I know that Iceman welcomes him as well.

Robert Z., don’t be afraid to make your voice known.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

madshi, have you viewed the actual 2010 Blu-ray of Gladiator or are you going by screenshots? From John’s review and comments about the 2009 version, I take it that the main, predominating problem he’s seeing is the excessive sharpening that’s damaged many of the scenes in the ’09 version (not detail loss from degraining)…..and this sharpening is variable as to its severity seen throughout the movie.

I have seen the 2009 version, the 2010 version and the BEV broadcast, all in motion on my HTPC. Not the whole movie, though, just parts of it, to check the image quality. The BEV broadcast is significantly better than the 2009 version. Still, the BEV broadcast can't hold a candle to the 2010 BD, IMHO. To my eyes, if I compare the 2009 and 2010 BDs, the 2009 BD almost looks like a DVD.

I'm talking about film-like look, natural grain, abundance of detail, total lack of processing artifacts. I'm not talking about colors here, because I don't dare to judge them.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

[...] *DNR* would be responsible for such a color shift noted in the screenshots. Pure internet bullsh*t.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

A tip of the hat for that.

Thanks!

[Penton-Man]

In regards to the Preliminary Program of The Reel Thing XXV which I linked to here ….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post3555022

This may be of some practical value for any of you ‘seasoned’ fellows out there as I often get PMs asking me for a referral about this subject. Anyway, if you’re like me and because of doing work for others you’ve neglected over the course of time your own motion pictures or just plain home movies you’ve shot which are of great personal value.

In other words, if you have any stuff that you’ve shot in 16mm or even Super8 slowly deteriorating in film cans and you would like to have them transferred to DVD or Blu-ray, then might I suggest you make note of the Speakers on the list by the name of Ralph Sargent and Alan Stark from Film Technology, Inc. in Hollywood.

They do great work and I recommend them for your needs. Give me a moment and I’ll hunt up their contact info. ^http://www.filmtech.com/

[Penton-Man]

One Housekeeping note .

I notice that Martin gave a fine review of ‘A Prophet’ which is due out on Blu-ray next week…..
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/A-Pro.../11256/#Review

Then, in checking the specs on imdb here...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1235166/technical

Where it says ‘Kodak’ it doesn’t list the stock and it should read Kodak 5218. Plus, for those who are into this sort of thing, I’ll inform you that nearly all the scenes in the movie were captured with only one camera, namely the Aaton 35-III boasting a set of Cooke S4s and a 28-76 mm Angénieux Optimo zoom.

That Aaton 35-III, along with those lenses is quite well suited for handheld work and the camera itself was first introduced in 1997. For those camera freaks out there, the 35-III with a 400 ft. load and onboard battery, I think weighs only about 3lbs more than its 16mm cousin, the XTR.