"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

That's what I was talking about- higher-element-density CCDs with discrete simultaneous multiplexed capture as an HDR methodology. It's one of the principal avenues John Galt at Panavision is exploring.

John’s nickname title has become “Senior Vice President of Something Terribly Important” ….over there in Woodland Hills.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Well, now, it seems some of the screenshot science crowd on another forum may beg to differ with Ridley and are pulling out the pitchforks claiming the D-theater version has more detail, less contrast pump, so look out! ...

Agreed. Just look at the head of the Chestburster Alien - detail such as tiny veins are blown out by boosted white contrast on the Blu-ray image...

I finally took a quick look at what I think is the Alien screenshot comparison to which you’re referring–
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1251

That screenshot comparison thread may indeed prove interesting….given the online hyped PQ expectations of the Blu-ray edition.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I finally took a quick look at what I think is the Alien screenshot comparison to which you’re referring–
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1251

That screenshot comparison thread may indeed prove interesting….given the online hyped PQ expectations of the Blu-ray edition.

See Penton, this post you are referring to represents the huge pile of crap that I am talking about.

They literaly have to blow up the pic, get out a magnifying glass just to CLAIM to see any difference. Not only that, they have NO WAY of knowing if those two pics are showing the same frame.

I looked at those and I cant really see enough of a difference and in my opinion if I look at screenshot science and cant see anything wrong with it in less than 10 seconds, then it aint big enough a difference to matter.

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Yes, I understand your position and that of other consumers sharing the same sentiment. On the flip-side, I believe the Finance Managers of the content providers (studios) probably would call this sort of thing something like ‘good business sense’ based on their models and their arithmetic.

I’m not sure what you want of me. With regards to the thread, are you desiring that I pass on the results of the poll to decision-makers in the business as a form of ‘enlightenment’ so as to re-direct their course, so to speak?

Be patient. This all will pass in time.

Two things - I wanted to get you expert opinion on this and yes I wold like you to pass this on. On thing that came up on the AVS forum in reference to this - because the studios are withholding content the studios are creating a new generation of pirates. These are people who want to purchase quality 3D movies and because of the lack of titles available they are resorting to piracy to get these titles. People an AVS and here are really getting angry because they spent so much money on 3D equipment and have so little content to purchase. In the long run both the manufactures and studios are hurting themselves.

I remember when the Blu-ray first came out the manufactures offered coupons for free Blu-ray movies with the purchase of a Blu-ray player or a PS3. To me that was a much better model and one that kept all the customers happy.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by merrick97

See Penton, this post you are referring to represents the huge pile of crap that I am talking about.
They literaly have to blow up the pic, get out a magnifying glass just to CLAIM to see any difference. Not only that, they have NO WAY of knowing if those two pics are showing the same frame.

I looked at those and I cant really see enough of a difference and in my opinion if I look at screenshot science and cant see anything wrong with it in less than 10 seconds, then it aint big enough a difference to matter.

I think the point is that the D-Theater home media version which was sourced from an outdated 2003? master looks just as good as…and arguably better (based on their screenshot analysis) than the 2010 Blu-ray - which was sourced from a technologically state-of-the-art ‘remaster’ presumably performed within the last year. This is especially interesting given the fact Alien was anamorphic, although granted that was before Panavision made their G-Series primes and newer anamorphic zooms……some of whom believe had their development fertilization at a raucous SMPTE Hollywood section meeting back in Oct. or Nov. of ’02….. but that is a story for yet another day.

Bottom line, if the Blu-ray looks “gorgeous”, then the out-dated D-Theater version looks just as gorgeous when compared side-by-side and I would say……super-cali-fragil-istic-espi-ali-docious gorgeous, given its vintage.

That is food for thought.

[Penton-Man]

Merrick, I recall you’re a big tennis fan are you not?
Heads-up, since this is your last day to search for a local retail store which is offering –
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...102686979.html

Let me know what you think if you catch the U.S. Open in 3D. Of the non-contact sports, I’ve only seen golf in 3D and I feel the extra dimension really adds to the viewing experience as it greatly illustrates the relief, i.e. slopes of the greens and fairways, which is far more difficult to appreciate in 2D.

One thing that everyone should keep in mind that as far as these sporting events goes, the 3D capture techniques are not static but continuously evolving as the shooters gain more and more experience with each project. For example, I’m told that in regards to the tennis tournament in New York, after last week’s broadcasting, they moved one of the primary cameras from the corner of the court to a lower position at court level behind the baseline where it enhances viewing the speed and spin on the ball way over what’s possible with conventional 2D capture/viewing.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

Two things - I wanted to get you expert opinion on this and yes I wold like you to pass this on....

Shoot me a PM or post a heads-up here as to when the poll has dissipated in terms of input and I’ll pass it on as per your request. Keep in mind that we do live in a capitalistic society.

Also, more immediately, please explain what you mean by “piracy” in a PM, as that may require a bit more expedited attention/action esp. if you are able to procure a sample.

[Penton-Man]

Where's sharkshark?

[Vincent Pereira]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I think the point is that the D-Theater home media version which was sourced from an outdated 2003? master looks just as good as…and arguably better (based on their screenshot analysis) than the 2010 Blu-ray - which was sourced from a technologically state-of-the-art ‘remaster’ presumably performed within the last year. This is especially interesting given the fact Alien was anamorphic, although granted that was before Panavision made their G-Series primes and newer anamorphic zooms……some of whom believe had their development fertilization at a raucous SMPTE Hollywood section meeting back in Oct. or Nov. of ’02….. but that is a story for yet another day.

Bottom line, if the Blu-ray looks “gorgeous”, then the out-dated D-Theater version looks just as gorgeous when compared side-by-side and I would say……super-cali-fragil-istic-espi-ali-docious gorgeous, given its vintage.

That is food for thought.

Remember though that the 2003 version wasn't an HD telecine job, it was a DI (2K I assume), as the ALIEN "Director's Cut" got a Digital Cinema and 35mm theatrical re-release. Perhaps this would help explain why the two look similar in terms of detail?

Vincent

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Where's sharkshark?

Hopefully not foodfood on his latest diving expedition!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

Hopefully not foodfood on his latest diving expedition!

Well, I hope he’s taking good notes or else has fresh batteries in his tape recorder because there are a lot of things starting to happen up there in Toronto, not the least of which is Bruce Springsteen's Tuesday discussion session, plus, I would like to read his review of the opening night film….Score! A Hockey Musical-
http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b199...fly_north.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Vincent Pereira

Remember though that the 2003 version wasn't an HD telecine job, it was a DI (2K I assume), as the ALIEN "Director's Cut" got a Digital Cinema and 35mm theatrical re-release. Perhaps this would help explain why the two look similar in terms of detail?

Vincent

That would suggest that there has been little or no technological advancement in the field of scanners, post facilities’ displays, nor color corrector software and its algorithm based tools since 2003…..or probably a little earlier, when that particular hardware/software pipeline was installed in the respective post facility.

I haven’t been following the Blu-ray production history of the Alien Anthology set, other than the fact that posters in that AVS thread have alluded to Lowry Digital having done the ‘restoration’ on Alien. Does anyone know specifically what was the source used for the modern day Alien Blu-ray and how it was harvested and subsequently transferred?

By specifically, I mean for example, another motion picture from the 1980’s is TRON and that had a restoration which I believe involved new 6k scans of the Vistavision and 8k scans of the 65mm IP’s for the upcoming Blu-ray incarnation, whenever that streets.

If Lowry Digital did indeed do the work on Alien, were they just sent the old 2k digital files or HD deliverable from ’03….or was a new scan of some film element performed?

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Merrick, I recall you’re a big tennis fan are you not?
Heads-up, since this is your last day to search for a local retail store which is offering –
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...102686979.html

Let me know what you think if you catch the U.S. Open in 3D. Of the non-contact sports, I’ve only seen golf in 3D and I feel the extra dimension really adds to the viewing experience as it greatly illustrates the relief, i.e. slopes of the greens and fairways, which is far more difficult to appreciate in 2D.

One thing that everyone should keep in mind that as far as these sporting events goes, the 3D capture techniques are not static but continuously evolving as the shooters gain more and more experience with each project. For example, I’m told that in regards to the tennis tournament in New York, after last week’s broadcasting, they moved one of the primary cameras from the corner of the court to a lower position at court level behind the baseline where it enhances viewing the speed and spin on the ball way over what’s possible with conventional 2D capture/viewing.

I am a fan of Tennis when Roger Federer or Andy Roddick is playing well. Sadly Fed lost in the semifinals again at the US Open.

I got the Dallas Cowboys game to watch.

[Penton-Man]

^ Was it as good for you as it was for me?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

Thanks, saw it. Cedia is, personally, a bit more interesting because we get NA prices and a few people that I know that will be there....

Are any of our intrepid Blu-ray.com journalists covering CEDIA like they did for IFA 2010?

It should be interesting to observe how much of a 3D-dominated theme all the consumer electronics companies will offer at the Atlanta show. IBC 2010 (Amsterdam) is wrapping up and it’s good to see that three 3D-related things are mentioned amongst their prestigious awards including the Best Conference Paper Award……http://www.ibc.org/page.cfm/link=148

Peter THX, please note The Judge’s Prize winner.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Are any of our intrepid Blu-ray.com journalists covering CEDIA like they did for IFA 2010?

It should be interesting to observe how much of a 3D-dominated theme all the consumer electronics companies will offer at the Atlanta show. IBC 2010 (Amsterdam) is wrapping up and it’s good to see that three 3D-related things are mentioned amongst their prestigious awards including the Best Conference Paper Award……http://www.ibc.org/page.cfm/link=148

Peter THX, please note The Judge’s Prize winner.

Judging on engineering, not content.

Contest wise, fortunately for them "Most Boring" isn't a category.

[Penton-Man]

^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTFKjJaV15I

or, you can just jump to this –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bX8Bahj2cY

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTFKjJaV15I

or, you can just jump to this –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bX8Bahj2cY

This one's better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-Ln_...eature=related

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

This one's better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-Ln_...eature=related

[Dennis M]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

However, I’m currently convinced that many videophiles don’t pay much attention to the colors of Blu-ray home video incarnations as compared to the theatrical presentations as long as three criteria are now met….
1. The color changes for home video have been *approved* by the Director.
2. The color changes now are more in line with an *eye candy* look….meaning more vivid than drab and dull.

And most importantly,

3. Pretty much all color discrepancy to theatrical is dismissed if the images are sharp as a tack with no evidence of haloing.

Penton, I hope this observation on your part is not true.

Colour directly impacts the presentation and mood of a scene. If you change the colour the whole emotional intent is changed.
In my opinion it would be like musically re-scoring a film.

Colour accuracy was one of the key reasons I went with my projector. Having a CMS, and not being subjected to the notoriously inaccurate colour decoders in standard displays, has been a real pleasure.

It would be dis-hearting if there is indeed a trend to accept this practice.