"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Other than the fact I can't watch Sony Blu-rays without the subtitles engaged because they have no dynamic range control anymore?

I'm serious. Before I could watch stuff like Air Force One at a decent volume and not wake the neighbors but not anymore. 2012? Fuggedaboudit.

(The amount of misinformation in that thread was astounding)

Of which my friend, in your enthusiastic promotion of your point of view, your hands are not squeaky clean either and for which, although hesitant, I was compelled to step into the fracas and correct you –https://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-mo...ml#post1945658

Peter, I’ll have you and Merrick watching English Premier League football and singing for Arsenal in unison with us yet…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMceSenRNOA

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

The complex doesn't take kindly to daytime rumbling either.

I think Ron Burgundy would say that sounds rather prudish, given –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LysBp...eature=related

[Penton-Man]

I see we’ve got a big boy (65 mm) in the news today… https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=5922. It should be interesting to see if this Blu-ray movie is struck from an outdated telecine of a 35mm reduction print (IP) or whether it has been newly remastered from a scan of the large format source.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

more than one recent example of Blu-ray movie titles now with a lossy *main* audio track

Can you cite any such titles, P-Man?

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I see we’ve got a big boy (65 mm) in the news today… https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=5922. It should be interesting to see if this Blu-ray movie is struck from an outdated telecine of a 35mm reduction print (IP) or whether it has been newly remastered from a scan of the large format source.

With sadness at the realism of my cynical outlook, I've got a tenner says it's the very same master as the red disc.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Can you cite any such titles, P-Man?

Bambi is arriving lossy. One of Disneys most important and loved titles.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

Bambi is arriving lossy. One of Disneys most important and loved titles.

Did we get confirmation on that? Last I heard, it was up in the air. Atrocious, if true.

[svenge]

It's been confirmed. DVDBeaver's review is one source (among many) reflecting that it's a DTS-HD High Res @ 2046 kbps...

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

With sadness at the realism of my cynical outlook, I've got a tenner says it's the very same master as the red disc.

But, if memory serves, isn’t this the 45th anniversary of the original theatrical presentation?

Oh well, perhaps for the 55th? Hey, do you think if Grand Prix is acceptable to the Blu-ray masses *as is*, using that source element, then we can do a matted 35mm IP element and use that as the source of the transfer for Lawrence, or, will folks get angry.

I guess I should be more kind to the Bros. in Burbank as they’ve had a particularly tough time of it financially compared to the other major studios in town- http://pursuitist.com/arts/warner-br...traight-years/

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Did we get confirmation on that? Last I heard, it was up in the air. Atrocious, if true.

Yes.

It's DTS-HD HR 7.1 @2Mbps, which is basically lossy standard DTS with 2 extra channels.

Uncle Buck is another one, the first lossy title from Universal...despite the John Hughes-typical use of classic and current songs throughout.

Of course you probably know about the single disc version of RED from Summit.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Some audiences listen to dub tracks. If their high audio quality inclusion were to truly compromise picture quality to any visually significant extent then the practice would be re-evaluated.

I think something which is more interesting/ominous for home theater enthusiasts to worry about is why despite the maturing of the Blu-ray format since its initial launch, is there apparently more than one recent example of Blu-ray movie titles now with a lossy *main* audio track.

agree

[Dennis M]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I see we’ve got a big boy (65 mm) in the news today… https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=5922. It should be interesting to see if this Blu-ray movie is struck from an outdated telecine of a 35mm reduction print (IP) or whether it has been newly remastered from a scan of the large format source.

That's a very good question. Hoping that it is in fact the latter. Been waiting for this one for a long time now.

[Dennis M]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

With sadness at the realism of my cynical outlook, I've got a tenner says it's the very same master as the red disc.

You may very well be right. Have a hard time seeing Warner remastering this one. Catalog has not been a big income generator so far on this format. But I'm still hoping they will. Miracles have been known to happen.

[bt12483]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

Bambi is arriving lossy. One of Disneys most important and loved titles.

Seriously.

Honest question: what is/is there a clear economic (e.g. money saving) reason to not use lossless?

Penton? Anyone? What amount of $$ could Disney have saved by using lossy DTS-HD-HR vs lossless DTS-HD-MA??


The movie is 70 minutes long. It is on a BD-50. Did they really pack in so many extras on the single BD-50 that no room was left for lossless audio???? Hence we have DTS-HD-HR?

If the motivation wasn't saving $$ via the codec itself then the only reason left would be that lossy was used because space was so tight on the BD-50 with the movie and extras??

Is this the 1st Disney title ever to not be lossless??

I think it is quite lame for Disney, bluray supporter extraordinaire all the way back to lossless PCM in 2006/2007...is now playing these games with lossy audio.

W. T. F. On their (chipped/cracked) DIAMOND edition no less....

[Dennis M]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Hey, do you think if Grand Prix is acceptable to the Blu-ray masses *as is*, using that source element, then we can do a matted 35mm IP element and use that as the source of the transfer for Lawrence, or, will folks get angry.

We're just going to forget you even made that comment.

[4K2K]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Some audiences listen to dub tracks. If their high audio quality inclusion were to truly compromise picture quality to any visually significant extent then the practice would be re-evaluated.

I think something which is more interesting/ominous for home theater enthusiasts to worry about is why despite the maturing of the Blu-ray format since its initial launch, is there apparently more than one recent example of Blu-ray movie titles now with a lossy *main* audio track.

Have their been 'blind' tests done with many viewers, all at the recommended viewing distance for resolving full 1080p where they were shown the same content:-

1) with lossy audio tracks, but higher bitrate video (the video taking up the bitrate that would have been used to make the audio tracks including the dub tracks lossless.)
2) with a lossless main track but lossy dub tracks, with lower bitrate video
3) with lossless audio tracks for the dub tracks as well as the main track, but the lowest bitrate video

And if so, what were the results of the tests, and which did they prefer?

[4K2K]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Therefore, unbeknownst to many (and though I’m a bit hesitant to publically reveal this), not all of the footage seen on the Blu-ray of the FIFA World Cup was acquired (shot) in native 3D….meaning some of it was actually 2D -> 3D converted.

Shouldn't consumers be told if some/all of a title is converted to 3D instead of shot that way? If only a small percentage of a title is converted wouldn't it be better if they were told (eg. on the back cover of the disc) approx what percentage was converted from 2D?

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by 4K2K

Shouldn't consumers be told if some/all of a title is converted to 3D instead of shot that way?

I don't know. Should they be told if some of the stunt sequences in a movie involve CG wire-removal? Should they be told if some of the characters are portrayed by doubles in second-unit distance shots? Should they be told if some of the vintage recordings on the period soundtrack were originally recorded in mono, despite the movie being advertised as 'in Dolby Surround Stereo'?

It's just art, man, and native stereo shooting and post-conversion are both ways to make it.

[4K2K]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

It's just art, man, and native stereo shooting and post-conversion are both ways to make it.

They might have a TV that can do 2D to 3D creation by itself, but want to buy a "real" 3D Blu-ray because they think it has been shot in stereoscopic 3D. If it hasn't, they're kind of being misled. I think they should be told when it's a conversion, and if it's partial conversion, about what percentage is converted from 2D. Otherwise consumers are being misled. It's like a Blu-ray that is up-scaled from standard def - it's fine as long as the consumer is told that it's up-scaled.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Yes. It's DTS-HD HR 7.1 @2Mbps, which is basically lossy standard DTS with 2 extra channels.

Uncle Buck is another one, the first lossy title from Universal...despite the John Hughes-typical use of classic and current songs throughout.

Of course you probably know about the single disc version of RED from Summit.

I didn’t know about Uncle Buck! I love that guy (movie). Not quite to the same extreme, but growing up, I too had an uncle who also *marched to the beat of a different drummer* like Buck, whom I found hilarious. I miss him.