"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

agree

lol, Anthony , luckily you don’t get paid per word on this thread.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by 4K2K

They might have a TV that can do 2D to 3D creation by itself, but want to buy a "real" 3D Blu-ray because they think it has been shot in stereoscopic 3D.

If such a customer can't tell the difference between a 3D Blu-ray (whether shot native or post-converted) and a 2D Blu-ray converted by the "logic" in their TV, I think they have bigger problems.

Originally Posted by 4K2K

If it hasn't, they're kind of being misled.

How are they being misled? The disc says "3D" on it and indeed presents a 3D movie. Would you say the same about the lack of explicit information regarding any of the examples I gave in my last post? If the box said "Filmed in native 3D!" and that was a lie, you'd have a misleading box. I'm not aware of any packaging that makes such claims.

[Penton-Man]

Quick belated (doctorossi, lately I’m further behind in acknowledging the passing of some filmmakers than I am of watching some Arsenal matches) R.I.P. to cinematographer Don Peterman, who I will always truly thank for this scene …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vx4J...B43AC7975D9166

As well as that of the scene in Flashdance in which Jennifer Beals eats lobster in the restaurant ….of which I presume member cjamescook will never forget either.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Dennis M

We're just going to forget you even made that comment.

You Canadians are just too damn happy anyway…http://www.cnngo.com/explorations/li...ty-list-755223
So it’s good for us Yanks to put a little scare into you sometimes.

Seriously, even several years ago, if so inclined, the content provider could have scanned a 65mm element (think BIG) of Grand Prix (1966) at least at 4K rather than using a squeezed down 35mm IP element (think little) as the source like they did for the HD DVD in 2006….as fellow mastering maestros Schawn and Paul at Fox and FotoKem, respectively, created and scanned a new 65mm wetgate IP for another large format film, namely, South Pacific (1958) at 4k back in 2005 (perhaps earlier when you include initial work) and the Blu-ray home media edition of that came out very well according to well-respected reviewers…..and that was using the now rather archaic D5 tape format as a master for the South Pacific Blu-ray.

Now, in 2010/2011, (for Blu-ray home theater enthusiasts) not to do at least a 4k scan of a 65mm film element of a 65mm motion picture is, well, …..no comment. I guess it’s kind of like some folks being acceptant of lossy audio on Blu-ray movies – just give us something….and we’ll buy it.

[4K2K]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

If such a customer can't tell the difference between a 3D Blu-ray (whether shot native or post-converted) and a 2D Blu-ray converted by the "logic" in their TV, I think they have bigger problems.

Being misled is still being misled. And they're paying money for something which isn't what they think they're getting (something shot in 3D).

How are they being misled? The disc says "3D" on it and indeed presents a 3D movie.

But not being told that it is 2D made into 3D (but with a big logo saying 3D). Like I said, it would be okay if it said it was a conversion or a 20% conversion etc.

Would you say the same about the lack of explicit information regarding any of the examples I gave in my last post?

As long as it was how it was on its initial release (eg. in the cinema) then it's okay. If they've changed it since, then they should really say (since it's not the same) and/or put the unchanged stuff on the disc too as additional audio tracks/branchable video.

Also, for cinema advertising, if they're advertising that something is 3D, I think they should also say if it's a 2D->3D conversion (since it won't be as "true stereoscopic 3D" as something shot that way - though if it's only a tiny amount I suppose it's not as needed - though I think it depends on the % of the duration). I suppose it's the same with the football disc, if it's less than 1% of the duration that is converted from 2D, it might not need it.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by 4K2K

Shouldn't consumers be told if some/all of a title is converted to 3D instead of shot that way? If only a small percentage of a title is converted wouldn't it be better if they were told (eg. on the back cover of the disc) approx what percentage was converted from 2D?

Well, I’m telling you here on this thread about the 2010 FIFA World Cup Blu-ray (albeit a small amount of converted material included), so Sony is hiding nothing from those consumers who are astute enough to know where to look for cutting edge information.

As regards to answering for other content providers/studios and their revelations of the presence or absence of 2D -> 3D converted material in their movies, you would have to ask the other filmmakers themselves. I can tell you that for AVATAR the thinking was that to reveal this information beforehand might negatively bias some of the audiences against the motion picture without justification….given inaccurate perceptions/generalizations about all converted material.

P.S.
By the way, since last evening, given all the vendors involved, I’m told there are 45 or 47 (depending on how good one’s arithmetic is) 2D -> 3D converted shots in AVATAR.

[Penton-Man]

Gotta go. 10:30 a.m. meeting and it’s a long walk from building to building.
Carry on.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by 4K2K

Being misled is still being misled. And they're paying money for something which isn't what they think they're getting...

Back in the day, after examining the front and back covers of the box, I purchased one of the home media renditions of Flashdance …starring Jennifer Beals (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm125735680/tt0085549) naively thinking that Jennifer did all the dancing in the flick.

Since this morning when I posted the link above, I’ve since been informed (via PM) by some anonymous cruel member here from Pixar (I owe you one, just wait) that Jennifer in fact did not do all the dancing for that particular motion picture which is a great flick for people (of all genders) to watch as an inspiration to stick with and follow-through on their passions and goals in life - despite how difficult the obstacles presented along the way.

I feel “misled” now. So much so that I think I will henceforth boycott watching the series The Chicago Code on TV because I really don’t know if every time the camera is *showing ‘Jennifer’* if in fact, it really is Jennifer.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

I don't know. Should they be told if some of the stunt sequences in a movie involve CG wire-removal? Should they be told if some of the characters are portrayed by doubles in second-unit distance shots? Should they be told if some of the vintage recordings on the period soundtrack were originally recorded in mono, despite the movie being advertised as 'in Dolby Surround Stereo'?

It's just art, man, and native stereo shooting and post-conversion are both ways to make it.

agree

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by 4K2K

But not being told that it is 2D made into 3D (but with a big logo saying 3D). Like I said, it would be okay if it said it was a conversion or a 20% conversion etc.

For the FIFA World Cup 3D Blu-ray? ... in normal motion, guesstimate…5% or less. I don’t know exactly as I would have to view the appropriate material again.

More importantly, the point of this revelation is that no reviewer or even casual observer whom I’ve ever heard about has even questioned, much less correctly identified the 2D -> 3D converted scenes/footage in either of these two offerings (AVATAR nor the World Cup) upon viewings in the commercial theater or at home with the Blu-ray editions. I think that speaks volumes to the internet misconception regarding all converted material.

Solely from the standpoint of professional technical curiosity only (< is that proper grammar ?), I’m interested in seeing if/and what footage Michael Bay converts from 2D to 3D for his new 3D Transformers motion picture (Dark of the Moon) which is coming out this summer….and most importantly, why.

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Quick belated (doctorossi, lately I’m further behind in acknowledging the passing of some filmmakers than I am of watching some Arsenal matches) R.I.P. to cinematographer Don Peterman, who I will always truly thank for this scene …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vx4J...B43AC7975D9166

As well as that of the scene in Flashdance in which Jennifer Beals eats lobster in the restaurant ….of which I presume member cjamescook will never forget either.

At the 51 second mark, one thing popped into my mind: "Lucky Dog!"

Wowza, what a body!

[DenonCI]

Penton,

We all know she can't act, but she makes one hell of an underwear model: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_827767.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

At the 51 second mark, one thing popped into my mind: "Lucky Dog!"
Wowza, what a body!

Not to mention the fact “the body” obtained her B.A. from Yale …for those who, like me, admire girls with a smart mind too. Plus, JimSD, she rides a bike ....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILWSp...=21&playnext=5

On another note, the cold/rain front is due to pass thru here in L.A. before the Oscars. So, it should be a fine sunny day for the show. Local weather forecasters say that there is a possibility there will be SNOW on Saturday on top of the Hollywood sign (http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2010/...gn-hugh-hefner) something quite unusal for these parts.

The buzz is not to be late for the first few minutes of the show or else you’ll miss the Best Cinematography award presentation.

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Not to mention the fact “the body” obtained her B.A. from Yale …for those who, like me, admire girls with a smart mind too. Plus, JimSD, she rides a bike ....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILWSp...=21&playnext=5

On another note, the cold/rain front is due to pass thru here in L.A. before the Oscars. So, it should be a fine sunny day for the show. Local weather forecasters say that there is a possibility there will be SNOW on Saturday on top of the Hollywood sign (http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2010/...gn-hugh-hefner) something quite unusal for these parts.

The buzz is not to be late for the first few minutes of the show or else you’ll miss the Best Cinematography award presentation.

My DVR is set to record the show, but I won't start watching it until around 6:30 or so Pacific...I hate all the commercials!

[JimSD]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Not to mention the fact “the body” obtained her B.A. from Yale …for those who, like me, admire girls with a smart mind too. Plus, JimSD, she rides a bike ....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILWSp...=21&playnext=5

I couldn't help but notice that it doesn't look like the bike fits her that well.

Looks like Rex Ryan's lawyers must have got to you about a comment that seems to have disappeared.

[Penton-Man]

^ *I don't recall*

[Penton-Man]

For those locals unable to attend or even get near the red carpet at the Oscars tomorrow, the Spirit awards today in Santa Monica are a worthy alternative – http://www.spiritawards.com/, especially given the fact that since 2008, it has become exceedingly difficult for Indie producers to finance their films (but that’s a story for another day) and so these filmmakers deserve all the support and accolades they can get from cinephiles as well as serious videophiles who esp. appreciate the art of motion pictures.

And speaking of different awards shows, as it’s always good to see how our international friends think about motion pictures, this be from the recent Cesar Awards in Paris –http://english.sina.com/entertainmen...25/361713.html

With a special lenser tip of the hat to Caroline Champetier for winning her first Cesar for Cinematography with…..Of Gods and Men.

[Penton-Man]

Attention Merrick, I posted a gamer dude link here….

https://forum.blu-ray.com/3d-technol...ml#post4431263

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

I don't know. Should they be told if some of the stunt sequences in a movie involve CG wire-removal? Should they be told if some of the characters are portrayed by doubles in second-unit distance shots? Should they be told if some of the vintage recordings on the period soundtrack were originally recorded in mono, despite the movie being advertised as 'in Dolby Surround Stereo'?

I find it fun to learn these things, but then I may have a strange definition of "fun".

Truly, if I can enjoy watch something for art's sake, the story, the entertainment, that's great. If I can then learn about what goes on behind the scenes afterwords, it's a bonus. I don't need to hear about them prior to my first viewing as such facts can be spoilers. However, I do appreciate the option of watching a second time with these facts - even single-framing.

I hope Richard Feynman would applaud.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by merrick97

I haven't been in this thread for quite some time. WHats going on?
Usual European football talk?

Well, a little bit different, as I’ll direct your attention toward reassurances given today regarding the quality of ‘the pitch’ for the Carling Cup Final between Arsenal and Birmingham as I figure you've been sitting on the edge of your chair waiting for this ...http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...up/9406184.stm. Set your DVR for the broadcast of the match tomorrow, in case you're busy working in the lab.

But, just in case you find that news a bit of a bore, then, on the other hand, since I know you’re a conscientious graduate student involved in a challenging science program, I’m sure you’ll appreciate this heads-up for more upcoming information in terms of the DNA of a Blu-ray, so to speak….https://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-mo...ml#post4428542