"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by GeneK

Hi Penton, as above but in advance.

I read the question and answer with Grover concerning Taxi Driver and I don’t understand something at all. Grovers says and I quote “By process, I mean a full 4K workflow with no downrezing. Especially scanning at 4K, it preserves the essential resolution of the 35mm negative. The resulting HD master used for the Blu-ray authoring was derived directly from the final 4K files.”

That answer makes no sense to me. When you go from 4K to HD (1920x1080) that in fact is downrezing and he says “no downrezing”. I don’t want to sound beligerent but what does he mean exactly or was he misquoted?

Well, not to worry as you sound sincere to me rather than belligerent. Now if you came in here saying something like...“I haven't been in this thread for quite some time. Whats going on? Usual mountain bike or motorcycle talk”? and had a *history*. That would be a different story, cause my momma didn’t raise no fool. I’ve just taken the liberty to do a little paragraph formation on your initial post to make it easier on my eyes.

Anyway, the key phrase is “a full 4K workflow with no downrezing”. What he means is not only was the film element scanned in 4K but all the work (repair work like scratch removal, dirt removal as well as color grading) for Taxi Driver was also done at the 4K resolution, i.e. “full 4K”. In other words, for the whole project it stayed in the 4K domain. So, there was no “downrezing” during the restorative work on the film. Unlike for instance, a lot of other films which although may be lucky to get scanned in 4K, the operators do all the work with 2K proxies. I assume your next question would be why is this so special?

Well, it’s significant in the fact that, for one, this ‘full 4K’ digital workflow is a bit rare as not many facilities have the capability to do this and to date, very few projects by any studio or post house have been allocated the necessary funds by the studio to make it happen. The reason why working in full 4K is embraced as a superior practice is that it is a more precise process leading to a superior outcome in terms of picture quality rather than downrezing to some smaller intermediate step (like 2K) in order to handle all the files easier and quicker at facilities which have older platforms and are data storage challenged.

Another thing is that the digital (down-conversion) filters used for going directly from the final 4K files to the HD master (1920x1080) produced for the Blu-ray, yield a superior PQ result when no intermediate 2K step is involved. In short, you get a sharper image with 4K straight to HD.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by GeneK

Also he says and I quote “There were enormous scratches running through some scenes that were difficult to remove. It almost never fails that when a film is scratched, it is right down the middle of a character's face - never way over to the side of the frame as you would hope. So, those kinds of things are difficult to achieve without altering the underlying structure of the emulsion. This film had several things like that wrong with it. Thousands of instances of minus density dirt specs were embedded in the emulsion of the negative, some of which can be removed easily and most not.”

My question to you is what specific tool did they use to fix all these scratches and is it something that someone like I can buy or is it some kind of Sony proprietary tool?

Thanks again, Eugene.

No, nothing expressed in that Q & A is/was really that secretive except for that Chemtone photochemical process (now historical) which essentially kicked up the darkest portions of the image into gamma scale area where one could more easily discern shades of darkness (in other words, *it opened up the shadows*) and at the same time, muted the colors….which is what Marty and Michael desired for that final infamous scene.

I can’t speak to your budget but, the specific software tool which you desire (notice the scratches all over the image of the lady’s face) is this…
http://www.mtifilm.com/storage/pdfs/...9_Brochure.pdf
If that ^ pdf link doesn’t work for you, go here and download the brochure…
http://www.mtifilm.com/digital-film-...lm-restoration

[PaulGo]

A bit more news on the 3D technology used in Spider-man 4:

http://hollywoodinhidef.com/2011/03/...ts-for-3ality/

[MerrickG]

Hey Penton explain something to me.

What role does the distributor play in the release of a film?

Examples include Fox and Lucasfilm for the Star Wars films and Lucasfilm and Paramount for the Indiana Jones films.

I am just curious and those two examples are the most obvious.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

A bit more news on the 3D technology used in Spider-man 4:
http://hollywoodinhidef.com/2011/03/...ts-for-3ality/

TS-5, hmm, I heard of that ….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/4448333-post16771.html

It’s good to see the mainstream press picking up on the importance of 3D rigs and not just the cameras themselves. Scott H. has always been rather astute in covering the nuances of new technology.

P.S.
And 3D news back at ya …
http://www.orange.com/en_EN/press/pr...cp110307en.jsp

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

...I heard of that ….

Speaking of which, spanning the globe for Blu news –
https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=6015

^ Of specific interest to some lovers of the western genre, namely The Comancheros (1961). Who done da work, one might ask?- https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post4370646

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by merrick97

Hey Penton explain something to me. What role does the distributor play in the release of a film?

Dang, where’s KubrickFan when I need him?
They distribute…http://www.deadline.com/2011/02/para...-thanksgiving/

[Penton-Man]

PeterTHX – When you're feeling confined by non-detached single family dwelling living, get out and take in a flick…http://www.americancinemathequecalen...tion-picture-0

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Dang, where’s KubrickFan when I need him?
They distribute…http://www.deadline.com/2011/02/para...-thanksgiving/

I thought that if I stepped in again, they'd have to rename the thread . And also, I don't know nearly enough about motorcycles and football to keep this thread interesting .

On a slightly more serious note, Penton, do you get tired of people getting tired of 3D? If a movie has been announced and happens to be in 3D, the first reactions/complaints will be about that. I always get the feeling that if color or widescreen photography would be introduced now, they'd get the same reactions. Your thoughts?

[Dotpattern]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

On a slightly more serious note, Penton, do you get tired of people getting tired of 3D? If a movie has been announced and happens to be in 3D, the first reactions/complaints will be about that. I always get the feeling that if color or widescreen photography would be introduced now, they'd get the same reactions. Your thoughts?

Or movies with sound.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

PeterTHX – When you're feeling confined by non-detached single family dwelling living, get out and take in a flick…http://www.americancinemathequecalen...tion-picture-0

Interesting! Thanks for the heads up!

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Thanks for expressing your concern. So do I, and for that matter, everyone in Japan. It seems the next worries are with the nuclear reactor, more waves and after-shocks. They're definitely having a tough time of it over there.

And although most, as of yet, have been too tasteful to make inappropriate Godzilla jokes about Japan's quake/nuclear crises--
It's surprising that few film buffs have as yet invoked the (prophetic) Akira Kurosawa reference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTg3D1PoyUE

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by merrick97

What role does the distributor play in the release of a film?

It will depend on the agreement and how much control they each have. It can be from the whole enchilada (if we are talking about disk distribution of a classic that can go from deciding when it is released and the restoration) to having no say and just putting a label on it (i.e. distributing it).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

...On a slightly more serious note, Penton, do you get tired of people getting tired of 3D? If a movie has been announced and happens to be in 3D, the first reactions/complaints will be about that. I always get the feeling that if color or widescreen photography would be introduced now, they'd get the same reactions. Your thoughts?

The disparaging of 3D in the sense of people attempting to impose their beliefs and opinions of their disdain for 3D upon those who are either open-minded about the ‘choice’ or outright enthusiasts of 3D, reminds me soooo much of the online forum battles of HD DVD vs. Blu-ray…it’s scary. Same sarcastic remarks by non-3D owners, same misinformation in trying to advocate their negative feelings toward 3D, etc.

I just don’t understand why some people won’t let bygones be bygones. When I raced motorcycles I absolutely loved 2-strokes and pretty much hated (to ride) 4-strokes but, I never got on any pulpit declaring my disdain for 4-strokes to 4-stroke owners. Of course back then, you pretty much had to deal with folks face-to-face.
P.S. I learned years later that for courses which were muddy and slippery throughout,…4-strokes ruled, hands down.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Dotpattern

Or movies with sound.

Yep, a retrospective concerning another technological advancement with motion pictures...
http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2...remendous.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

...scanned in 4K

Speaking of which, sharkshark I’ll have you know that for Disney’s restoration of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (1954), the squid sequence which was shot in a storm at night by the filmmakers in order to obscure the wires from the theatrical audiences became quite noticeably visible when the film elements (YCM masters and original Cinemascope neg) were scanned at 4K on a Northlight.

So, dem wires were painted out.

[Doctorossi]

Wahoo! Nice to hear a 20k Leagues update (that, at least, the work continues).

[SpaceDog]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

The disparaging of 3D in the sense of people attempting to impose their beliefs and opinions of their disdain for 3D upon those who are either open-minded about the ‘choice’ or outright enthusiasts of 3D, reminds me soooo much of the online forum battles of HD DVD vs. Blu-ray…it’s scary. Same sarcastic remarks by non-3D owners, same misinformation in trying to advocate their negative feelings toward 3D, etc.

I just don’t understand why some people won’t let bygones be bygones. When I raced motorcycles I absolutely loved 2-strokes and pretty much hated (to ride) 4-strokes but, I never got on any pulpit declaring my disdain for 4-strokes to 4-stroke owners. Of course back then, you pretty much had to deal with folks face-to-face.
P.S. I learned years later that for courses which were muddy and slippery throughout,…4-strokes ruled, hands down.

Any online outlet that offers the opportunity for user commentary is the perfect place for people to vocally and repeatedly express their strong and unyielding opinions - even when those opinions have no bearing on the reality of the situation.

On just about every subject that I care about there are too many people who dislike or "hate" what it is that I favor enough that they continue to try to enforce their views at the detriment of rational and even discussion. I suppose it's the effect of not having faces to be accountable for. Every meek individual with a keyboard will either repeat their own, or parrot others commentary in vitriol for something they don't care for rather than ignoring it.

I can't tell you how many times on this forum (or ew.com or tvguide.com, etc) that you read something about a show or a movie, and there are 20 people jumping at the chance to declare "this sucks, they shouldn't have made it/should cancel it, etc". Further, there seems to be a weird contingent that read every celebrity news story then pipe in "why should we care?, celebrities suck".

I'm tangenting here - and I apologize, but my point is that there are far too many people at their keyboards actively complaining about things that they otherwise don't need to comment on because if they simply ignore the thing, it has no bearing on their lives.

3D is a wonderful CHOICE for filmmakers. I've seen it used to some wonderful effect now and again. As long as the filmmaker gets to choose, and the home video release also has a choice - I don't see the complaint. 3D is like color, sound, scope, or any other tool in the filmmaker's arsenal. We should embrace it if we love it - or watch the 2D version if we don't.

When you are not being forced to adopt/use/participate in a thing - your commentary isn't necessary. If you absolutely must comment - you need not comment over and over and over again. It's not just aggravating - it's lame.

</Rant>

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Speaking of which, sharkshark I’ll have you know that for Disney’s restoration of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (1954), the squid sequence which was shot in a storm at night by the filmmakers in order to obscure the wires from the theatrical audiences became quite noticeably visible when the film elements (YCM masters and original Cinemascope neg) were scanned at 4K on a Northlight.

So, dem wires were painted out.

Sounds...fishy.

*cough*

[Penton-Man]

“O jest unseen, inscrutable, invisible.”

For new or junior members, sharkshark chides me as he is well aware I post fact rather than speculation. If one wants the later, there are a plethora of other places on the web which do so.

If one desires debate though, I present you and others with this…..Whether tis nobler to restore a classic motion picture the way it was shot (i.e. The Bridge on the River Kwai), ‘mumps’ and all,

or, not to (i.e. 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea) and thusly re-create. In other words, as you folks will eventually discover whenever ‘Leagues’ makes it onto Blu-ray, that the mump-itis evident with the original theatrical presentation of ‘Leagues’ has been *corrected* during the recent restoration by applying a 0.5% digital squish to the entire image in order to *fix* it.

So, whether tis nobler to squish or not to squish, That is zee question .
(both shot full-aperture 2.66:1)

Or, should I not pose such a question to those recovering on Day 1 after St. Patrick’s Day?