"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[jkwest]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, here’s something all forum members should understand, namely 3D and fighting words -
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/6ab79d54-5...#axzz1HWUIMTNc

Alas, nobody has sent me the YouTube commercial with the actor and the monkey yet so I’m unable to link it at this time.

holy crap..now we are going to have a 3D war shootout?!

dang, I kind of wish Toshiba was somehow involved..

[jkwest]

hey Penton,

in that article you posted about the different 3D technologies, it states

“From a consumer’s point of view, it is hard to tell the differences in terms of 3D effects,” says Mr Park at Daishin Securities.

“What counts for them is content rather than technology,” he adds.

“I bet that 3D TVs are surely the industry’s next big thing but demand is unlikely to grow rapidly in one or two years unless prices come down and content is reinforced.”

um...do you believe that as well??? do you think the content offered will be the driving force behind the sales, or, do you think that tech will prevail?

[Penton-Man]

From my perspective, the key thing is how to provide filmmakers with the tools to tell their stories so they appear as realistically as possible, whether it be with things like increased resolution and wider colorspace or adding depth by way of 3D acquisition and post.

Unlike the impression you may get by reading some internet sites/forums, I can tell you that filmmakers by-and-large from the biggies like Martin Scorsese and Peter Jackson on to less recognized groups which you may never have heard of…http://www.allianceofwomendirectors.org/events.html are quite interested in trying out the 3D format as another tool in their filmmaking arsenal. For example, following its screening at Berlinale, many folks think that pina (in 3D) is the best live action 3D movie to date. This is a little background on this rather unknown (at least in the U.S.) flick - http://www.wim-wenders.com/movies/mo...nterview-1.htm < from http://www.wim-wenders.com/

All that said, I think most typical consumers (mainstream) buy TVs when they’re in the market to buy a TV. In other words, being primarily motivated by things like adding one to another room which currently doesn’t have a display, replacing a TV which they have given to one of their kids to have at college, or to upgrade to a larger size monitor, thinner form factor, etc. with other features like 3D capability (gamers aside) taking on more of a secondary importance in their purchasing decision. Then, when the decision to finally pull the trigger is made (buy a NEW TV), as long as the price differential is not exorbitant between a 2D-only TV and that of a 2D TV with 3D capability, I think many folks will choose the later just to future-proof as much as possible, whether or not there is enough 3D content available to their liking at the current time.

And other analysts predict that may change sooner than expected by many… http://www.rbr.com/media-news/resear...0-by-2014.html

Keep in mind that since the production of motion pictures takes quite a bit longer (at least, feature films) than does that of a *TV show*, the former content will naturally take longer to travel down the pipeline and get into the homes of 3D capable consumers. But more 3D movies will come in time also…http://www.homemediamagazine.com/3-d...-upswing-23436

[phansson]

Hey Penton,

I am personally excited about 3D. I don't need the "effects jumping out of the screen" type effects, I am happy with the general depth that is added. Tron "legacy" is a good example of 3D being used correctly. The depth of some scenes in the theater were amazing to me and added to the general experience.

I have upgraded to 3D now on my projector system and am just waiting for content to become more readily available. I understand the "exclusive" deals that companies sign, but it is frustrating to see some good content out there with no reasonable way to access it.

[Bobby Henderson]

I think the movie exclusive pairings with 3D hardware is by far the most stupid move movie studios and electronics companies could have done for promoting 3D in home theater.

Maybe they forgot why Blu-ray beat HD-DVD in the format war a couple years ago: Blu-ray had the better titles and more of them. Blu-ray's technical superiority had little if anything to do with it.

The PS3 is arguably superior to the XBox360 in technical terms. The PS3 can do more than an XBox360. Yet the XBox360 is still selling better because its platform has a larger supply of quality titles.

There isn't enough 3D content easily available to home theater customers for them to get excited about 3D. There's only lots of hurdles. If you want a certain movie you have to buy a certain kind of TV to get it. Absolutely stupid. That kind of restrictive marketing only pushes away customers. Broadcasters are trying to seed the 3D cable market, but not enough is going on there to generate excitement. Finally it's difficult for customers to even understand the various competing 3D technologies in flat panel TV sets, much less the pros and cons with each one. There's plenty of reasons for a customer to just go with a 2D only TV set or merely wait a few years for the market to sort out all the confusion. Oh yeah, and the economy is still largely in the toilet for most people with food and fuel costs spiking the "misery index" to the same highs we saw before the housing industry imploded.

3D in home theater is going to go absolutely nowhere as long as major Blu-ray 3D titles like Avatar are bottled up in ridiculous exclusivity agreements. IMHO, Panasonic would be selling more of its 3D Blu-ray players and TV sets if anyone could buy a copy of Avatar on Blu-ray 3D for any 3D capable TV set and Blu-ray player.

A format war over TV display technology isn't a good thing to have breaking out at this time. The various electronics companies involved in 3D TV had better get their act together on this ASAP or just enjoy watching the general public adopt 3D at a glacial pace.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by phansson

...I have upgraded to 3D now on my projector system and am just waiting for content to become more readily available. I understand the "exclusive" deals that companies sign, but it is frustrating to see some good content out there with no reasonable way to access it.

Well, since the time of the debut of the 3D Blu-ray Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs, I think that SPHE has taken a leadership role in not embracing prohibitively exclusive 3D Blu-ray content tie-ins to consumers.

Not to mention the fact that at great upfront expense, the FIFA World Cup was captured in 3D by Sony and broadcast in 3D when a pittance of Sony TVs were on the shelves available for sale to the public in the U.S. at the time of the start of the competition, that which had other consumer electronics companies salivating with glee at the *gifted* incentive to purchase their brands, so comparatively, I think Sony has done its part to make 3D as available as possible to the consumer.

Thusly, I believe your beef is with other studios and consumer electronics companies…sort of like the issues of DNR and lossy audio on 2D Blu-rays.

That said, the upside to posting your concern here is that I know V.P.s from other studios read this thread largely due to the Insider Forum groundwork laid by a team of influential Insiders here…
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...rs-thread.html
and here …
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...y-edition.html

and given the fact this thread, I think, still has the distinction of being the 2nd? most viewed thread on Blu-ray.com ( < which hands-down is the most popular location on the web in the U.S. for Blu-ray software information, except maybe? perhaps for comments on Amazon.com which has quite a bit of contributor *noise* and of which I don’t follow)….your and Bobby’s public concern related to 3DBD is at least getting pretty good ‘exposure’.

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, since the time of the debut of the 3D Blu-ray Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs, I think that SPHE has taken a leadership role in not embracing prohibitively exclusive 3D Blu-ray content tie-ins to consumers.

Not to mention the fact that at great upfront expense, the FIFA World Cup was captured in 3D by Sony and broadcast in 3D when a pittance of Sony TVs were on the shelves available for sale to the public in the U.S. at the time of the start of the competition, that which had other consumer electronics companies salivating with glee at the *gifted* incentive to purchase their brands, so comparatively, I think Sony has done its part to make 3D as available as possible to the consumer.

I also think Sony is in partnership with Discovery offering a 3D cable channel (which Comcast does not carry). When it comes to 3D, content is what makes the public want to purchase hardware. If the consumer sees available content they will want the equipment to play it on. When Blu-ray was first released the manufactures through the Blu-ray association got together and offered many free Blu-ray movies if you purchased a Blu-ray player (plus these titles were available for sale). This made a lot more sense than offering one or two fee movies with the purchase of a TV. One of the hottest 3D titles is Avatar which if available for general sale would cause a lot of consumers to purchase 3D equipment, instead this title is locked up until 2012!.

[phansson]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, since the time of the debut of the 3D Blu-ray Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs, I think that SPHE has taken a leadership role in not embracing prohibitively exclusive 3D Blu-ray content tie-ins to consumers.

Not to mention the fact that at great upfront expense, the FIFA World Cup was captured in 3D by Sony and broadcast in 3D when a pittance of Sony TVs were on the shelves available for sale to the public in the U.S. at the time of the start of the competition, that which had other consumer electronics companies salivating with glee at the *gifted* incentive to purchase their brands, so comparatively, I think Sony has done its part to make 3D as available as possible to the consumer.

Thusly, I believe your beef is with other studios and consumer electronics companies…sort of like the issues of DNR and lossy audio on 2D Blu-rays.

That said, the upside to posting your concern here is that I know V.P.s from other studios read this thread largely due to the Insider Forum groundwork laid by a team of influential Insiders here…
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...rs-thread.html
and here …
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...y-edition.html

and given the fact this thread, I think, still has the distinction of being the 2nd? most viewed thread on Blu-ray.com ( < which hands-down is the most popular location on the web in the U.S. for Blu-ray software information, except maybe? perhaps for comments on Amazon.com which has quite a bit of contributor *noise* and of which I don’t follow)….your and Bobby’s public concern related to 3DBD is at least getting pretty good ‘exposure’.

Penton,

Sorry, if my comment was taken personally as a dig against you and Sony. That was not my intention and I apologize.

I am personally excited about 3D (and was trying to show that).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by phansson

Penton,

Sorry, if my comment was taken personally as a dig against you and Sony. That was not my intention and I apologize.

I am personally excited about 3D (and was trying to show that).

It’s not you…it’s me , no apology necessary. I know you’re one of the good guys and I pulled out the pulpit to give everyone else reading a history lesson. I think I got frustrated with your particular post being the straw that broke the camel’s back, so to speak, as over the past months I’ve read so many generalizations like ‘the studios shouldn’t use DNR' or, most recently, “the studios are developing a trend of using lossy audio on some Blu-rays” rather than specifically naming names (which studio).

I can see why bloggers would be purposely vague and lump all studios or content providers together like that, as they would be very hesitant to bite the hand that feeds them but, I think a little more forthright posting in terms of specificity by mainstream forum members (other than you and Bobby, who I know meant not harm ) could be in order.

[EatingPie]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

On a bubbly note, I see in Bobby’s link on the past page, in one of the news pieces, it mentions Howard Hall (http://www.howardhall.com/stories/breakingin.html)

Makes me think of diving again. You may have some reservations about James Cameron (and I’m quite certain we’ll hear yet more lobbying by him for higher frames rates for 3D in Digital Cinema come March 31st when he speaks at CinemaCon) but, be that as it may, did you know that Jim spent the same amount of time submerged as did the underwater film crew did when filming The Abyss?

Quite impressive for an amateur diver. I mean the man didn’t miss one dive.

I think Control Freak won out over amateur diver!

The Abyss DVD extras were pretty awesome. I want those in HD as much as the movie, though I suspect they were videoed rather than filmed.

Um... what were you guys talking about again?

-Pie

[Penton-Man]

Last night I received some PMs concerning my last post which some took as a slight against other Blu-ray forums on the internet. Well, that was not my intent.
As penance, I will post a link to another online forum namely, HTF ….
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/foru...ray-in-2009-or

with the following query -
Whether tis nobler to scan (for optimal restoration) a 65mm OCN at 6K (Ben-Hur) or at 8K (The Sound of Music)… http://www.facebook.com/video/video....50282259450612

That is zee question.

I'll bet the well-informed videophiles on this forum as well as on another audio/visual forum, namely AVS , easily know the correct answer to that question even if they're a little uncertain as to how much detail can be harvested from a 65mm OCN, they're certainly familiar with the fact that an over-sampled image size ultimately avoids or suppresses aliasing artifacts.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by EatingPie

I think Control Freak won out over amateur diver!

-Pie

Well, where have you been? Glad you showed up . I need a recommendation for a new pie (other than Apple) for a Fourth of July cookout we’re having.

[EatingPie]

....Oh wait, now I remember.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

From my perspective, the key thing is how to provide filmmakers with the tools to tell their stories so they appear as realistically as possible, whether it be with things like increased resolution and wider colorspace or adding depth by way of 3D acquisition and post.
...

Then you need to convince Dreamworks to sell the 3D algorithms to everyone else! With the exception of Avatar, they are the only studio doing 3D consistently right... and beautifully! How to Train Your Dragon was an amazing 3D experience. It's also an amazing movie, period. Technically, the 3D was smooth, and by far the most natural I've seen. But this is also one film where the utilization of 3D really engaged the audience: think Dragon Ride, and you're on it!

Monsters Vs. Aliens was also amazing, establishing a sense of scale and depth -- particularly in the alien spacecraft -- that no one outside of Dreamworks has accomplished.

Consider this against Toy Story 3, certainly a wonderfully told movie, but the 3D was just... incidental. First, it didn't really add or help engage you into the story. Second, it was kind of crappy 3D (compared to Dreamworks)... sort of just there.

I'd say the same for Tangled or Despicable Me, both of which I loved, but were not good enough 3D to justify the added theatrical premium price.

All that said, I think most typical consumers (mainstream) buy TVs when they’re in the market to buy a TV. In other words, being primarily motivated by things like adding one to another room which currently doesn’t have a display, replacing a TV which they have given to one of their kids to have at college, or to upgrade to a larger size monitor, thinner form factor, etc. with other features like 3D capability (gamers aside) taking on more of a secondary importance in their purchasing decision. Then, when the decision to finally pull the trigger is made (buy a NEW TV), as long as the price differential is not exorbitant between a 2D-only TV and that of a 2D TV with 3D capability, I think many folks will choose the later just to future-proof as much as possible, whether or not there is enough 3D content available to their liking at the current time.[/url]

Absolutely agree here. My current TV predates HDMI, but is awesome and I'm not replacing until it croaks. At that point, I am happy to pay a few hundred dollars on a multi-thousand TV to future-proof.

But I really want to see 3D succeed. And in all honesty, we need people to first recognize quality, and then follow the lead. That means paying real attention to Dreamworks for animation, and Avatar for live action (as much as we can call it that).

-Pie

[EatingPie]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, where have you been? Glad you showed up . I need a recommendation for a new pie (other than Apple) for a Fourth of July cookout we’re having.

Ask and you shall receive!

Cherry Pie from Julian Apple Company Julian Pie Company. Don't let the name fool you, hands down the best cherry pie you can get today. And Natural Food stores like Jimbo's carries them, though I'm not sure how much in your neck of the woods.

They sell 'em online too.

-Pie

PS I'm not affiliated with Julian Pie Company or Dreamworks... I likes what I likes!

[JimSD]

Originally Posted by EatingPie

Cherry Pie from Julian Apple Company. Don't let the name fool you, hands down the best cherry pie you can get today. And Natural Food stores like Jimbo's carries them, though I'm not sure how much in your neck of the woods.

Penton can hit a Jimbo's on the way to his island place with the new Tiger Woods floor. Jimbo coached my son in soccer one year - great guy.

[EatingPie]

Originally Posted by JimSD

Penton can hit a Jimbo's on the way to his island place with the new Tiger Woods floor. Jimbo coached my son in soccer one year - great guy.

Of course he's a great guy! He stocks Julian Pie Company pies, that's one step below angelic!



BTW, they have a great Sugar Free Apple (naturally sweetened, no additional sugar added, so it tastes good!), as well as a great Dutch Apple. The Apple Crumb is hit and miss for me, I like it, but it can be overwhelmingly sweet.

It's impossible to find a good Cherry Pie anywhere at all. Even though Julian is famous for apples, the JPC cherry is their best pie, and the best cherry pie I've ever had... preferably in 3D!

-Pie

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by EatingPie

Ask and you shall receive!

Cherry Pie from Julian Apple Company Julian Pie Company. Don't let the name fool you, hands down the best cherry pie you can get today. And Natural Food stores like Jimbo's carries them, though I'm not sure how much in your neck of the woods.
They sell 'em online too.

-Pie

PS I'm not affiliated with Julian Pie Company or Dreamworks... I likes what I likes!

That’ll work…just substitute ‘cherry’ for ‘apple’ come the 4th….I love baseball, hot dogs, cherry pie and Chevrolet…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_Y-2...layer_embedded

Thanks Pie . We were kinda getting tired of apple pie every year.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by JimSD

Penton can hit a Jimbo's on the way to his island place with the new Tiger Woods floor. Jimbo coached my son in soccer one year - great guy.

Did someone say soccer as PeterTHX perks his ears in unrestrained anticipation …http://www.screendaily.com/home/blog...025341.article

Nothing like a filmfest and soccer.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Last night I received some PMs concerning my last post which some took as a slight against other Blu-ray forums on the internet. Well, that was not my intent.
As penance, I will post a link to another online forum namely, HTF ….
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/foru...ray-in-2009-or

with the following query -
Whether tis nobler to scan (for optimal restoration) a 65mm OCN at 6K (Ben-Hur) or at 8K (The Sound of Music)… http://www.facebook.com/video/video....50282259450612

That is zee question.

I'll bet the well-informed videophiles on this forum as well as on another audio/visual forum, namely AVS , easily know the correct answer to that question even if they're a little uncertain as to how much detail can be harvested from a 65mm OCN, they're certainly familiar with the fact that an over-sampled image size ultimately avoids or suppresses aliasing artifacts.

So, people ask me, that’s all fine and dandy for all those rare 65mm birds in existence but what resolution should a Super 35/4 perforation frame be scanned at for an optimal restoration of that more typical modern-day film sized negative?

I say, 4K at the minimum, even better 6K if possible.

So, invariably they ask….”Why so, Penton”?

I say, “to quote Hans, “At the moment, 35mm film with a 6K scan is the only way of capturing images to survive a 4K workflow and projection.”

or, in other words, if you don’t trust in Sony, then trust in Arri…page 15, “Avoiding Alias” with its handy little chart - http://efilm.com/publish/2008/05/19/4K%20plus.pdf

So, invariably they say…”Nice article but, who the hell is Hans?”

I say….”That paper was written by Hans Kiening , who subsequently was awarded this kudo in 2009 for his knowledge -
http://www.smpte.org/about/awards_pr..._award_winners

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Did someone say soccer as PeterTHX perks his ears in unrestrained anticipation …http://www.screendaily.com/home/blog...025341.article

Nothing like a filmfest and soccer.

Nah, my eyes glaze and the scrolling finger tenses