"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, I’m back, at least momentarily and posting under the influence of pain and a cocktail of post-op pain meds, antibiotics and other funny looking pills so forgive what will probably be some irregularity in posting contributions for the time being until I completely recover .

Other Club members feel free to chime in to take up the slack as honestly I feel like road kill but the show must go on. If I start rambling incoherently, just rack that up to the drugs….not early dementia.

Welcome back! I wish you have a quick recovery.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by androvsky

Licenses to view files will be stored on the "cloud", yes, but getting at the videos themselves will be done any number of ways, including streaming, preloading onto purchased devices (mentioned in the speech), or simply downloaded.

agree, poor choice of words on my part in that post, I was trying to go through it fast. Like I said in the previous post if you buy Vudu UV it would be Vudu and DC UV would be DC.

That's not what I meant. I was responding to Steedeels' apparent worry that 1080p masters would just go away if Blu-ray dies. My point was that they need to have a 1080p master even if Blu-ray goes away, since they still need one for the 1080p downloads anyway. But yes, one master for all the formats.

OK, but not what you said, plus I think his worry is bad 1080p and not the total disapearence of 1080p.

It's not a pure cloud service, in fact, the central UV repository doesn't deliver movies at all, only licenses. It's not pure streaming as licensed players can play files from different storage media (as I quoted above). And it's not just the providers delivering what they've been giving us, there's a new file format they have to deliver, one that works with all UV players (depending on resolution).

but that is what I said in the original post and my point. UV is not a DL service it is just like insurance, right, you have insurance, if your house gets robbed, the insurance company does not give you back your stuff that got robbed but what they see as the $ equivalent and then you buy them back. Here it is a bit diffferent because you don't only use it if robbed and you need to register each thing you buy for it to be "insured".


The issue is you are making a too common mistake PMs link is not a consumer presentation but one for the biz, when they talk of one format he is not saying what you get from Vudu will be the same as from Bestbuy or some other source but that bestbuy and vudu will get the same thing. That is for example why he said at some point that they have licensed (so far) 5 DRM. Since DRM is part of the data file (if it was not it woul;d be easy to strip off and useless) obviously the data will be different.


My understanding is that for simplicity UV will have 5 "categories" but that does not mean that they would necesserily nbe 100% the same from all sources. And that is to make it simple (after all I guess, for example and since he did not go in detail, if you buy the SD version you don't want people to DL the 1080p from elsewere)

I also see the world a bit different then you, you think of movie X 3D and movie X as the same film so if the 5 choices are 240p (hand held),480p (SD), 720p, 1080p (low) and 1080p high you say "there is no 3D but I see it as two different content, so to continue with the idea movie X would be available in 320,480,720,1080l,1080h but they can also have movie x 3d in those same levels. So you would not need it as one of the categories and so not mentioned as such. for example on Vudu
http://www.vudu.com/movies/#!content...-Needs-Moms-3D
http://www.vudu.com/movies/#!content...ars-Needs-Moms

are not treated as the same film.

[androvsky]

Sorry for dumping another novel on your thread Penton-Man, I'll try to keep this one shorter. We're still trying to figure out how this crazy UV thing works still, I think.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

OK, but not what you said, plus I think his worry is bad 1080p and not the total disapearence of 1080p.

Yeah, but it's what I meant, I make goofs too (curse you ambiguous pluralization). If his worry is about the quality of the 1080p masters, that's a different discussion... one that I kept expecting him to bring up. It's a more valid concern, but by the time Blu-ray dies there'll be better codecs (there are now), and since even streaming services are already competing on quality (again, see VUDU) I'm not too worried.

The issue is you are making a too common mistake PMs link is not a consumer presentation but one for the biz, when they talk of one format he is not saying what you get from Vudu will be the same as from Bestbuy or some other source but that bestbuy and vudu will get the same thing. That is for example why he said at some point that they have licensed (so far) 5 DRM. Since DRM is part of the data file (if it was not it woul;d be easy to strip off and useless) obviously the data will be different.

No, I caught the DRM bit too. I was talking about video format, since that was the point of discussion, since encryption won't affect the encoding quality. It's pretty clear that players are supposed to support all 5 DRMs anyway (somehow).

I fully expect streaming providers to downgrade the quality, it'll probably happen automatically if it's using adaptive streaming. There's not much reason to offer lower-quality files for download though, since bandwidth and space concerns are better handled by using lower-resolution files, unless the studios are providing super high-quality massive bitrate encodes that have to be downgraded to be practical. Which would be nice, since I'm sure someone would offer those straight up.

I also see the world a bit different then you, you think of movie X 3D and movie X as the same film so if the 5 choices are 240p (hand held),480p (SD), 720p, 1080p (low) and 1080p high you say "there is no 3D but I see it as two different content, so to continue with the idea movie X would be available in 320,480,720,1080l,1080h but they can also have movie x 3d in those same levels. So you would not need it as one of the categories and so not mentioned as such. for example on Vudu
http://www.vudu.com/movies/#!content...-Needs-Moms-3D
http://www.vudu.com/movies/#!content...ars-Needs-Moms
are not treated as the same film.

I kinda agree in that streaming services could offer 3D, but again, UV isn't just streaming. 3D isn't part of the supported formats, at least not publicly. 3D copies could be made available, but if there's no standard, they might not work in different players (assuming 3D players, of course), and thus wouldn't really be part of the UV standard.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

Penton,

A funny article to read while you recover from your surgery:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...ORDS=golf+once

Get well soon.

There is great wisdom in that article. The first thing that the Caddyshack pic reminded me of was the uncanny resemblance of ‘Danny’ from Caddyshack with ‘Rory’, the U.S. Open winner (check out the comparison pic)…
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7...s-danny-noonan

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by JimSD

Get well, Penton. Is it related to the problem from late last year?

No, and that’s the kicker. I would have thought that with the a-fib thing, I had paid my *health dues* to the system for at least several years.

I’m honestly beginning to think that all this ‘40’ is the new ‘30’ and ‘50’ is the new ‘40’, etc. talk is all nonsense.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

wish you all the best and a quick recovery

Thanks. I need it as the pain meds cause me constipation to the point I feel bloated like a whale, plus I'm sure they prevent me from getting a good, deep sleep (no R.E.M. sleep) and I just lay in bed drifting in and out of espisodes of shallow sleeping.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

What, "International" ...
ps. Diving the Northumberland strait tomorrow, wish me luck.

Yes , and good luck with the dive. Wet or Dry suit?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

Welcome back! I wish you have a quick recovery.

Thanks . A futuristic enhancement for 3D?

“How intense would your 3-D movie-going experience be if you felt a falling sensation when a James Bond leaps from a plane, or a creepy hand on your neck at the right moment in a horror movie? And let's not even think about its applications at the hands of a firm like Vivid Video”....

http://www.fastcompany.com/1772583/d...ies-and-gaming

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by androvsky

Sorry for dumping another novel on your thread Penton-Man, I'll try to keep this one shorter. We're still trying to figure out how this crazy UV thing works still, I think. ....

I don’t mind novels, as long as they’re not boring and yours as well as the other contributors, have not been so …..other than the ‘what are the bitrates’, ‘what are the bitrates’, ‘what are the bitrates’, by steedeel.

Plus, according to this article (prompted by the fact that as of last July 13, manufacturers will be able to license technological framework for a fee and can begin linking their products up to UltraViolet’s digital rights locker)

you’re helping to do Hollywood’s job for them –
http://gigaom.com/video/ultraviolet-b2b-launch/

Which means you (and Anthony) are also ultimately providing a service to the consumer .

[JimSD]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

There is great wisdom in that article. The first thing that the Caddyshack pic reminded me of was the uncanny resemblance of ‘Danny’ from Caddyshack with ‘Rory’, the U.S. Open winner (check out the comparison pic)…
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7...s-danny-noonan

I noticed the resemblance during the Open. Wouldn't a Rory-Bill Murray pairing at the AT&T Pro-Am at Pebble be great?

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by androvsky

Sorry for dumping another novel on your thread Penton-Man, I'll try to keep this one shorter. We're still trying to figure out how this crazy UV thing works still, I think.

take it this way, PM needs to relax and recover, so hopefully we are helping to keep this thread interesting as well as active

Yeah, but it's what I meant, I make goofs too (curse you ambiguous pluralization). If his worry is about the quality of the 1080p masters, that's a different discussion... one that I kept expecting him to bring up. It's a more valid concern, but by the time Blu-ray dies there'll be better codecs (there are now), and since even streaming services are already competing on quality (again, see VUDU) I'm not too worried.

you and I have different definitions of competing I don't find Vudu's quality at all acceptable.

as for "by the time Blu-ray dies there'll be better codecs" better codecs be damned, I want 4k losslessly ompressed video (admitedly a format with either of them - high quality 4k or lesless- would do fine as middle step and would get me off of BD.)

my issue with better CODEC, (or encoders) is that lossy is losssy why not have both? I don't care about file size, I care about quality, if one day we can get a 5GB file on a better encoder that matches a 50GB BD today why would I want that 5GB file that matches BD today and not a 50GB file that looks much better?

No, I caught the DRM bit too. I was talking about video format, since that was the point of discussion, since encryption won't affect the encoding quality. It's pretty clear that players are supposed to support all 5 DRMs anyway (somehow).

but video format is imaterial you don't DL/stream video you DL/stream data, some of which is DRM, some video and some audio. You realize if Vudu DRM is one of the 5 that Vudu gets the A/V file and then add their DRM to it so that you DL Vudu data so why is it so hard to accept that they can also change the BW while they do that in order to fit waht Vudu has in the specs (assuming it is different then some of the other providers and the data given by the studio)?

I fully expect streaming providers to downgrade the quality, it'll probably happen automatically if it's using adaptive streaming. There's not much reason to offer lower-quality files for download though, since bandwidth and space concerns are better handled by using lower-resolution files, unless the studios are providing super high-quality massive bitrate encodes that have to be downgraded to be practical. Which would be nice, since I'm sure someone would offer those straight up.

I disagree, I don't see a difference between streaming and DL, first what if there is DL streaming (i.e. watch the movie while it transfers to your HDD so that next time you can watch it on the HDD)? why can't you use the same for streaming "if you want less data then stream the lower rez file". I agree that with streaming if the server is doing 10mbps and you only have 5mbps that you will constatly have playback issues (jitter, frame skip, cutouts....) but doesn't it also hold for DL in a different way, if the guy decides to start the DL in the morning to watch it when he gets back to work and because of his internet speeds it is not ready until the next day, he would be equaly as unhappy as the guy with bad playback. Also back in Jan Netflix put out a report and Canadian ISPs fared much better then US ISPs (BW/customer) http://techblog.netflix.com/2011/01/...-networks.html but a couple of months later Netflix lowered Canadian default http://blog.netflix.com/2011/03/netf...by-23-for.html rate. Why? here in Canada many ISPs have much smaller caps then in the US, from the report in Jan, it was not because the ISPs don't offer the BW needed, but my guess a lot of people after the first month went way over their cap and complained why it was so expensive and Netflix lowered the default in order to use a lot less BW. Do you think the ISP/consumer cares if it is DL or streaming, if the large amount of data drives themn beyond the cap they are over the cap.

I kinda agree in that streaming services could offer 3D, but again, UV isn't just streaming. 3D isn't part of the supported formats, at least not publicly. 3D copies could be made available, but if there's no standard, they might not work in different players (assuming 3D players, of course), and thus wouldn't really be part of the UV standard.

again I don't see why you see a distinction, streaming DL it is all the same, data over the internet to your player. If you buy your X 3D movie for streaming from a UV associated company it is X 3D. Yes a person would need a 3D player and 3D TV and maybe 3D receiver, but did that stop BD from having 3D? did that stop Vudu from having 3D? why would it be harder from straight DL then streaming? If the data is coming from your HDD (DL first) or directly from the internet (aka streaming) why would it be harder for the UV player. Honestly I am guessing streaming 3D would have more issue since the internet is less dependable (data timing wise) then an HDD.

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

There is great wisdom in that article. The first thing that the Caddyshack pic reminded me of was the uncanny resemblance of ‘Danny’ from Caddyshack with ‘Rory’, the U.S. Open winner (check out the comparison pic)…
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7...s-danny-noonan

One of my favorite passages from "Caddyshack:"

Danny Noonan: I planned to go to law school after I graduated, but it looks like my folks won't have enough money to put me through college.

Judge Smails: Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Yes , and good luck with the dive. Wet or Dry suit?

wet (don't own a dry, although cert'd for it - willing to take donations towards one should your Sony stocks improve )

Excellent dive, actually, just off the wharf... 15ft of water for about 70 min, saw a tonne of bass, crabs, starfish, etc. My first "cold" saltwater dive (temp was 70F)

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Thanks . A futuristic enhancement for 3D?

“How intense would your 3-D movie-going experience be if you felt a falling sensation when a James Bond leaps from a plane, or a creepy hand on your neck at the right moment in a horror movie? And let's not even think about its applications at the hands of a firm like Vivid Video”....

http://www.fastcompany.com/1772583/d...ies-and-gaming

It reminds me of an old movie that used a similar gimmick - "The Tingler"

The film tells the story of a scientist who discovers a parasite in human beings, called a "Tingler", which feeds on fear. The creature earned its name by making the spine of its host "tingle" when the host is frightened. In line with several other Castle horror films, including the 1958 Macabre and 1959 House on Haunted Hill, Castle used gimmicks to sell the film. The most well-known for The Tingler was called "Percepto!", which featured vibrating devices in some of the theater chairs which activated in time with the onscreen action.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tingler

[coolmilo]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Thanks . A futuristic enhancement for 3D?

“How intense would your 3-D movie-going experience be if you felt a falling sensation when a James Bond leaps from a plane, or a creepy hand on your neck at the right moment in a horror movie? And let's not even think about its applications at the hands of a firm like Vivid Video”....

http://www.fastcompany.com/1772583/d...ies-and-gaming

Is this similar to what they are doing with the new Spiderman? Looking at the preview, it looks like the 3D experience is going to create a sensation as if we are flying from place to place on the string of the spidy web.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

No, and that’s the kicker. I would have thought that with the a-fib thing, I had paid my *health dues* to the system for at least several years.

I’m honestly beginning to think that all this ‘40’ is the new ‘30’ and ‘50’ is the new ‘40’, etc. talk is all nonsense.

Welcome to the 60's

"Welcome to the 60's" - Hairspray on Tour - YouTube

[4K2K]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

again I don't see why you see a distinction, streaming DL it is all the same, data over the internet to your player. If you buy your X 3D movie for streaming from a UV associated company it is X 3D. Yes a person would need a 3D player and 3D TV and maybe 3D receiver, but did that stop BD from having 3D? did that stop Vudu from having 3D? why would it be harder from straight DL then streaming? If the data is coming from your HDD (DL first) or directly from the internet (aka streaming) why would it be harder for the UV player. Honestly I am guessing streaming 3D would have more issue since the internet is less dependable (data timing wise) then an HDD.

3D isn't in the list of supported video formats of Ultraviolet according to the page linked in this thread. If it isn't in the list of supported formats, that seems like you won't be able to stream/download Ultraviolet 3D content until it gets added to the Ultraviolet specs (if ever) if it isn't already.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by coolmilo

Is this similar to what they are doing with the new Spiderman? Looking at the preview, it looks like the 3D experience is going to create a sensation as if we are flying from place to place on the string of the spidy web.

No, ASM should have nice 3D , but *only*, 3D. The teaser trailer which you refer to was unique in that it contained some 3D POV footage as if looking thru the eyes of Spidey while on the move.

I will say one thing in general about the technical aspect of 3D motion picture production (native stereoscopic acquisition) and 3D post production, which some readers may be unaware of. If you shoot ‘good’ 3D, you have so much control in post (and I’m not referring to converting [2D -> 3D] but rather, tweaking the native 3D footage in post) that, in experienced hands, working with a modern 3D capable DI system, and under no inhibiting time constraints, you have the ability to make ‘great’ 3D out of ‘good’ 3D footage. This is why, for example, 3D filmmakers are now starting to embrace shooting parallel and doing HIT (horizontal image translation) in post.

What the engineers for the House of Mouse research facility in Pittsburgh are working on in the lab is more akin to a very elegant and highly sophisticated version of tactile stimulation with electronics rather than another human assisting in the experience, like with this –

Feel-Around - YouTube

[Blu-Ray Watcher]

Lucky Japan...

http://www.theamazingspiderman.net/international/

[ole geezer]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Thanks. I need it as the pain meds cause me constipation to the point I feel bloated like a whale, plus I'm sure they prevent me from getting a good, deep sleep (no R.E.M. sleep) and I just lay in bed drifting in and out of espisodes of shallow sleeping.

Urghhhh....sorry you had to go under the knife. I know of whence you speak about the pain pills. I had a knee replaced in late March and they sure pack a powerful punch. The effects evened out a bit when I reduced the dosage from 2 pills to one and took a sleeping pill at night. One good thing though. The pills not only killed the pain but my appetite as well....lost 35 lbs which I managed to keep off despite the return of my appetite. Hang in there guy.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Thanks . A futuristic enhancement for 3D?

“How intense would your 3-D movie-going experience be if you felt a falling sensation when a James Bond leaps from a plane, or a creepy hand on your neck at the right moment in a horror movie? And let's not even think about its applications at the hands of a firm like Vivid Video”....

http://www.fastcompany.com/1772583/d...ies-and-gaming

I saw Final Destination 5 in 3D today and all I can say is WOW!!! Talk about a "falling sensation"....