"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

You're forgetting Apple Records sued Apple Computer over trademark infringement.

We're not forgetting it, Peter; it was the basis of my joke.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

"Very satisfied customers" don't immediately upgrade their device.

You're seriously telling us that tens of millions of people pay $2,500 each for an iPhone and contract simply because it's faddish like Cabbage Patch Kids and that despite being unhappy and unsatisfied with their $2,500 devices, opt to stand in line to immediately repeat the process because they're still so gripped by the fad mentality? And they also give answers to customer satisfaction surveys that are the precise opposite of their opinions because... what... they wouldn't want the survey-taker to know that they're so uncool as to not actually like the product that they're lining up to re-buy?

You believe tens of millions of people are enacting this scenario?

It may take a while, but can I introduce you to Occam's razor?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

You believe tens of millions of people are enacting this scenario?

Yeah.

Also a majority of those are uneducated and don't realize there are better performing phones at better prices, and simply want what "xxxx" have.

[rickah88]

Keep fighting the good fight, Peter...it's very inspiring.
brb, I'm gonna go download a few songs on iTunes.

[Steedeel]

The guy is entitled to his likes and dislikes. He recognises what quality is. Not what the sheep follow. Personally, i wouldn't lower myself to listen to mp3 Quality music on any set-up. In my opinion, music was never intended to be compressed. I am sure i remember reading that mr jobs used to listen to vinyl when he got home.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Yeah.

Wow.

I just can't imagine the mental world you inhabit, Peter.

I can't imagine feeling burned by a $2,500 product (that also has a huge personal opportunity-cost because owning it also means that you can't use a smartphone you do like) and then quickly going back to the store, not to return it, but to greedily repeat the mistake, buying another phone you don't like despite not actually having any need to upgrade!

I agree with you that some consumers seem to make foolish decisions, but I had no idea the bizarro-world they live in! No wonder the economy's in the toilet.

I'd love to meet some of these millions upon millions of people who eagerly line up to re-buy multi-thousand-dollar products they don't like (or need) and then glowingly review them. The people I know return a $30 pair of pants if they're not totally satisfied with them.

Are you sure they don't just *like* their iPhones? It would really explain a lot.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised- I never went to business school.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

The guy is entitled to his likes and dislikes. He recognises what quality is. Not what the sheep follow. Personally, i wouldn't lower myself to listen to mp3 Quality music on any set-up. In my opinion, music was never intended to be compressed. I am sure i remember reading that mr jobs used to listen to vinyl when he got home.

Nor do I listen to mp3 music...or much of any music for that matter...but I don't go bashing all the people that do support this industry.

[Steedeel]

So do you consider yourself a fence sitter then? He can bash who he likes! Free speech and all. How many people do you know that keep quiet if they really hate something. There is nothing wrong with strong views. Not everyone likes them but that is tough.

[rickah88]

Nope!

[Steedeel]

If you dislike something, you remain quiet and do not share your dislike with anyone else?

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

He can bash who he likes! Free speech and all.

Well, that's Penton's call, really. I don't see anyone trying to shut him down, though. He can say it and, in turn, we can tell him that it's off-topic and a little tired.

[Steedeel]

Off topic? How exactly. I see many topics discussed in this forum. Apple offering a HDTv or new set top box or similar could be seen as direct competition to bluray. Let's say someone has an apple tv and a bluray player. They are in two minds if they should buy a film they like the look of or rent it on apple tv. They rent it and do not think it is worth buying. That is a lost sale. Great for consumers to save money , but not for bluray and not for the film industry in my opinion. If apple tv owners continue to use this method and only buy a handful of blurays compared to the usual, say, 20-30 discs or more they may normally buy that is direct impact on bluray isn't it?
Some may argue that true bluray fans will always buy the disc. Maybe that is true, but for more casual bluray fans their head may be turned.

Let's not forget, many bluray fans buy blind still, including me for many, many titles.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

If you dislike something, you remain quiet and do not share your dislike with anyone else?

I'm assuming you're responding to me, even though you don't reply directly to me...
I couldn't care less about Peter's fight against Apple and it's supporters. I think he's fighting a losing battle, but whatever makes him happy.
I don't support Apple, but can appreciate what they've done with their products(as do a few other people I'm told).
I dislike rainy/snowy/windy weather but I don't think I was going to share my feelings towards it on this thread.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Off topic? How exactly. I see many topics discussed in this forum. Apple offering a HDTv or new set top box or similar could be seen as direct competition to bluray. Let's say someone has an apple tv and a bluray player. They are in two minds if they should buy a film they like the look of or rent it on apple tv. They rent it and do not think it is worth buying. That is a lost sale. Great for consumers to save money , but not for bluray and not for the film industry in my opinion. If apple tv owners continue to use this method and only buy a handful of blurays compared to the usual, say, 20-30 discs or more they may normally buy that is direct impact on bluray isn't it?
Some may argue that true bluray fans will always buy the disc. Maybe that is true, but for more casual bluray fans their head may be turned.

Let's not forget, many bluray fans buy blind still, including me for many, many titles.

What about Netflix rentals, Redbox, Blockbuster, every other BD rental outlet? Your logic is quite flawed. By your logic in order for me to be a "true bluray" fan, I have to buy every BD that comes out and/or I like. Uhmm I like BMW's too, but I don't buy every one that I like. Same logic for my house. Same for sports cards or comicbooks I used to collect years ago. Collectors have been, and always will be, limited by their respective collecting budgets.
I was anywhere from 15-20 BD's from Netflix per month. That saves me a tidy sum of money on movies that I never would've bought. On the flip side a few of those movies I did buy, based on what I saw. So I could counter your flawed logic and say that because of Netflix's BD rental program I bought some movies that, had I not previewed beforehand would never have bought.

That's the beauty of message board arguments:
There's always 2 sides to the story, and each side is always right!

[Steedeel]

Rick, i still see bluray renters as part of the problem. If they rent with no intention of buying, they might as well rent a dvd. The whole point of bluray for me is to have a film, preserved in fantastic quality, available to watch anytime i like. No one is expecting any collector to buy every film out there, i was referring more to the person who may of just recently 'got into' bluray. Rentals through streaming services are going to turn their heads, no question. That is why i think peter's argument is relevant. I see streaming services as a
straight rival to bluray. Absolutely.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

If they rent with no intention of buying, they might as well rent a dvd.

Mightn't a Blu-ray renter be likely to purchase on Blu-ray those of his/her rentals that were enjoyed? And, even if s/he didn't, this customer is still adding to the demand for Blu-ray and not adding to the demand for any of Blu-ray's competitors.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

The whole point of bluray for me is to have a film, preserved in fantastic quality, available to watch anytime i like.

For you, sure. However, you are not the only consumer Blu-ray was designed to meet the needs and wants of.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

That is why i think peter's argument is relevant. I see streaming services as a straight rival to bluray.

Peter's opinion about iTunes as a competitor to Blu-ray would be perfectly relevant to a conversation about Blu-ray's competitors. That's not a conversation we were having at the time.

Again, he's perfectly welcome (as far as I know) to change the subject to that one... but we've been through it a dozen times already and it's a little annoying to be talking about something else and have a giant Apple-as-dog-turd image dropped into the thread from out of nowhere.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Rick, i still see bluray renters as part of the problem. If they rent with no intention of buying, they might as well rent a dvd. The whole point of bluray for me is to have a film, preserved in fantastic quality, available to watch anytime i like. No one is expecting any collector to buy every film out there, i was referring more to the person who may of just recently 'got into' bluray. Rentals through streaming services are going to turn their heads, no question. That is why i think peter's argument is relevant. I see streaming services as a
straight rival to bluray. Absolutely.

You're on your own little doomsday island, you've proven nobody can tell you any different. Even if God came down and stated blu-ray will be around and prosper for years to come, I still think you'd be nervous for it's eventual demise...so debating you on that topic is pointless.
As far as renting...well if I recall correctly for a while dvd was the best in home viewing standards(at the consumer level), and renting a dvd didn't slow that industry down one bit. Unlike you, I am a realist and I know blu-ray will run it's course and become another lost format....but I also believe the newer prevailing technology(like BD to dvd) will be backwards compatible so my BD collection is still relevant.
As for Peter's argument, I think it's a pointless one. He's saying that supporters of Apple are mindless sheep that need to upgrade every so often. Well until Peter lists his entire life experience to include all technological purchases with dates of purchase, I'll take his arguments with a grain of salt. I use Verizon wireless and they allow an upgrade every 2 years as a part of my plan....and?? Does that make me one of Verizon's "mindless sheep"? Nope, just a smart shopper that likes to future proof as much as possible.
My only question is this:
If physical media rentals, streaming, digital downloads, etc are all(in yours & Peter's opinion) killing and/or hastening the demise of blu-ray...why aren't we seeing this in the sales data?
Must be one big cover up, I suppose(Rickah is rolling his eyes at this point).

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Even if God came down and stated blu-ray will be around and prosper for years to come, I still think you'd be nervous for it's eventual demise...

That's because God is just a renter.

[Steedeel]

See, this is now becoming patronizing in my opinion. Not appreciated. We disagree. Fair enough. Do i feel that streaming/download jeopardizes high quality in future? Absolutely. Does not mean i am a fantasist.
Streaming advertises HD quality and in my opinion, more often than not it is dvd quality. Does no one see the danger in that?

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

In any case, it always seems that the iProduct faithful are eager to get rid of their devices when a new one comes out. If it's so pleasing, why not keep it more than a year?

Try reading some of the message boards at DroidForums.net. It's not just "iProduct' faithful.

As for not keeping it for more than a year, I have been told that Apple products have a decent resale value. I myself had plans to upgrade my iPad 2 to an iPad 3 this year, but financial reasons will be preventing me from doing so.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Yeah.

Also a majority of those are uneducated and don't realize there are better performing phones at better prices, and simply want what "xxxx" have.

Consider me a minority then. I have an Android phone, and as soon as I get the chance, I'm replacing it with an iPhone. The reason? I prefer the iPhone over the Android phones. No "keeping up with the Jones'" here...

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

That's because God is just a renter.

God doesn't need to rent...

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Personally, i wouldn't lower myself to listen to mp3 Quality music on any set-up. In my opinion, music was never intended to be compressed. I am sure i remember reading that mr jobs used to listen to vinyl when he got home.

Though they may still be compressed (at this time), I believe the future is looking bright for better quality music on iTunes.

~Alan