HDR Discussion Thread - Page 347 - Blu-ray Forum

gkolb · 10-07-2018, 06:48 PM

^ - Penton, Look forward to hearing what these projects are.

Jumpman · 10-07-2018, 06:54 PM

Is Dolby Vision suppose to look a bit more natural than HDR10?

So, bought a TCL 6-Series panel on Friday and I've got the Apple TV 4K and the first generation Philips 4K player hooked up to it. I've spent an entire day "calibrating" the various modes as best I could and right now, I'm streaming BATMAN v SUPERMAN via the Apple TV 4K in Dolby Vision while on disc, it's in HDR10. The results are...interesting.

Like, HDR10 has more pop and I kind of feeling like the color tend to over do it in HDR10, while in Dolby Vision, yes, things a "tad" dimmer but everything looks more natural looking, but the pop of HDR isn't gone.

I am wondering, as a novice and I know it does vary between the content, if the two HDR formats are suppose to look drastically different or slightly different from one another.

Thanks...

LordoftheRings · 10-07-2018, 08:00 PM

We need a HDR/Dolby Vision expert, like from Sony, from Dolby Labs, from Hollywood Universal movie studios. No theory, not salad on papers, real physical applications and measured results.
Someone unbiased, neutral, educative, professionally honest, someone advanced, calibrated and from a higher level.

Panasonic seems to be the new Professional Hollywood video expert, with their new HDR Optimizer chips inside their players, and their OLED HDR TVs for sale in Europe and Canada.

I'm no expert, Dolby Vision seems to be @ best when streaming.
HDR excels @ both streaming and physical HDR BR discs.

Yeah, a Sony expert, a professional video expert. ...And a Dolby Labs pro guy.
Are you experienced?

https://vimeo.com/109988488

HDMan72 · 10-07-2018, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumpman

Is Dolby Vision suppose to look a bit more natural than HDR10?

So, bought a TCL 6-Series panel on Friday and I've got the Apple TV 4K and the first generation Philips 4K player hooked up to it. I've spent an entire day "calibrating" the various modes as best I could and right now, I'm streaming BATMAN v SUPERMAN via the Apple TV 4K in Dolby Vision while on disc, it's in HDR10. The results are...interesting.

Like, HDR10 has more pop and I kind of feeling like the color tend to over do it in HDR10, while in Dolby Vision, yes, things a "tad" dimmer but everything looks more natural looking, but the pop of HDR isn't gone.

I am wondering, as a novice and I know it does vary between the content, if the two HDR formats are suppose to look drastically different or slightly different from one another.

Thanks...

I noticed this too when comparing Dolby Vision & HDR10 while watching Halloween 4K UHD. DV is a tad dimmer with deeper blacks for sure. DV looks superior in a way to me. Maybe because of the dynamic metadata that is going on. My display is a Vizio P-series F1 (2018).

Jumpman · 10-07-2018, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDMan72

I noticed this too when comparing Dolby Vision & HDR10 while watching Halloween 4K UHD. DV is a tad dimmer with deeper blacks for sure. DV looks superior in a way to me. Maybe because of the dynamic metadata that is going on. My display is a Vizio P-series F1 (2018).

Glad I wasn’t the only one.

It really does vary depending on content when it comes to adjusting the picture to make everything how one wants it. It’s not inconvenient because it’s usually one or two slight adjustments. Definitely a learning curve at the moment.

I do love how Dolby Vision looks though. Nothing wrong with HDR10. It looks splendid as well but for me, I just feel that Dolby Vision is deployed more smartly than HDR10.

This is going to be a fun few days, testing all this stuff.

HDMan72 · 10-07-2018, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumpman

Glad I wasn’t the only one.

It really does vary depending on content when it comes to adjusting the picture to make everything how one wants it. It’s not inconvenient because it’s usually one or two slight adjustments. Definitely a learning curve at the moment.

I do love how Dolby Vision looks though. Nothing wrong with HDR10. It looks splendid as well but for me, I just feel that Dolby Vision is deployed more smartly than HDR10.

This is going to be a fun few days, testing all this stuff.

I've been adjusting Gamma from 2.1 - 2.4. I watch movies with all lights out. I was using an LED backlight for my previous display which was Edge-lit so the backlight came in handy.

Geoff D · 10-08-2018, 12:07 AM

Apart from the raised letterbox bars on darker full-field content in DV I can detect very few differences between it and HDR10 on the Sony ZD9 in terms of APL, colour, retention of highlight detail and so on. But then I've made sure that the HDR10 is tracking the correct brightness curve (having also tested the same patterns in forced DV) and used the same white balance calibration on both. If I had to pick them apart in a blind test on this TV I'd be very hard pressed to do so (black bars aside), although on very close scrutiny the DV seems to have a slightly more involving usage of the local dimming, but then that could just be my eyes playing tricks as I haven't directly compared two sources back and forth at the same time.

Penton-Man · 10-08-2018, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

....And streaming doesn't count, not in this dojo.

Some at Sony would think you a bit of a ‘snob’….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhbVw6PaZA0#t=3m35s

Penton-Man · 10-08-2018, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gkolb

^ - Penton, Look forward to hearing what these projects are.

Will do, when I can.

Penton-Man · 10-08-2018, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumpman

....I am wondering, as a novice and I know it does vary between the content, if the two HDR formats are suppose to look drastically different or slightly different from one another.

Thanks...

On the scale of slightly to drastically, it’s much more to the slightly (but better

) side.

Penton-Man · 10-08-2018, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Apart from the raised letterbox bars on darker full-field content in DV I can detect very few differences between it and HDR10 on the Sony ZD9 in terms of APL, colour, retention of highlight detail and so on. But then I've made sure that the HDR10 is tracking the correct brightness curve (having also tested the same patterns in forced DV) and used the same white balance calibration on both. If I had to pick them apart in a blind test on this TV I'd be very hard pressed to do so (black bars aside), although on very close scrutiny the DV seems to have a slightly more involving usage of the local dimming, but then that could just be my eyes playing tricks as I haven't directly compared two sources back and forth at the same time.

good eval

Penton-Man · 10-08-2018, 01:55 AM

Waboman, where are you? Do you possess any beach football or soccer skills?

Penton-Man · 10-08-2018, 01:59 AM

Super busy for next few days, keep the thread warm.
Later.

Geoff D · 10-08-2018, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Some at Sony would think you a bit of a ‘snob’….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhbVw6PaZA0#t=3m35s

And I couldn't care less. After Kaz Hirai publicly doubted whether there'd be a 4K disc format at all (despite the BDA working on it at the time) it was obvious that some at Sony wanted to concentrate on their 4K streaming service and ditch the physical side of things that was losing them money, but thank **** that didn't turn out to be the case as Sony have proved to be true champions of the 4K Blu-ray format.

gkolb · 10-08-2018, 03:49 AM

Speaking of dynamic range, watched the Space-X launch from Vandenberg tonight from my backyard in the Central Valley. The first stage burn, second stage burn had a huge V contrail that had myriad colors in it. Meanwhile the first stage re-entry burn was vividly visible while the second stage was ascending.

It was the most SciFi moment I’ve ever had in real life. (and I’ve been to the Cape Canaveral and Smithsonian museums).

The two launch burns totaled about 12 minutes and were vivid until the second stage shutdown for the satellite orbit insertion. The second stage contrail spread out like the size of a large umbrella in the southwest sky. It truly was a ‘cosmic’ kind of experience for me, I’m guessing we were about 135 miles from the spaceport. Tried to video it with my iPhone 6s, the camera wasn’t up to it, all I got was black screens (even though I could see the burn and contrail on the screen while videoing).

HDMan72 · 10-08-2018, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Apart from the raised letterbox bars on darker full-field content in DV I can detect very few differences between it and HDR10 on the Sony ZD9 in terms of APL, colour, retention of highlight detail and so on. But then I've made sure that the HDR10 is tracking the correct brightness curve (having also tested the same patterns in forced DV) and used the same white balance calibration on both. If I had to pick them apart in a blind test on this TV I'd be very hard pressed to do so (black bars aside), although on very close scrutiny the DV seems to have a slightly more involving usage of the local dimming, but then that could just be my eyes playing tricks as I haven't directly compared two sources back and forth at the same time.

You might of exactly described what I might be seeing, DV having more usage with the local dimming. To me the black levels look deeper. The other thing is my previous Samsung JS8500 (2015) was HDR10 but also needed Dynamic Contrast to really see HDR. Now with this Vizio its night & day difference, probably from color volume, tone mapping and FALD.

RockyIII · 10-08-2018, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Apart from the raised letterbox bars on darker full-field content in DV....

Do you mean that you are getting grey-ish black bars?

Steedeel · 10-08-2018, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyIII

Do you mean that you are getting grey-ish black bars?

. This is how I feel at times. This thread should have a translator for all the technical terms. I just like the end result of a 4K experience but I don’t get all the bells and whistles that get me there.

Penton-Man · 10-08-2018, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Waboman, where are you?

waiting outside the gate?

Penton-Man · 10-08-2018, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

We need a HDR/Dolby Vision expert, Are you experienced?

https://vimeo.com/109988488

with analyzing thee imagery?, I’d say, a wee bit

, for example…
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...0#post13298760
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...4#post13299664

but it’s time for other people to take a turn and step up to the plate.

P.S.
LordoftheRings, to catch when I post external to this thread, (rather than solely internally - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...9#post13192739)
you’ve got to be attentive all along the watch tower….

The Jimi Hendrix Experience - All Along The Watchtower (Official Audio) - YouTube

10-08-2018, 03:49 AM	#6935
gkolb Blu-ray Samurai Member since: Feb 2012 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 4,818 Thanks: 21,530 Thanked 2,397 times in 1,431 posts	Speaking of dynamic range, watched the Space-X launch from Vandenberg tonight from my backyard in the Central Valley. The first stage burn, second stage burn had a huge V contrail that had myriad colors in it. Meanwhile the first stage re-entry burn was vividly visible while the second stage was ascending. It was the most SciFi moment I’ve ever had in real life. (and I’ve been to the Cape Canaveral and Smithsonian museums). The two launch burns totaled about 12 minutes and were vivid until the second stage shutdown for the satellite orbit insertion. The second stage contrail spread out like the size of a large umbrella in the southwest sky. It truly was a ‘cosmic’ kind of experience for me, I’m guessing we were about 135 miles from the spaceport. Tried to video it with my iPhone 6s, the camera wasn’t up to it, all I got was black screens (even though I could see the burn and contrail on the screen while videoing). Last edited by gkolb; 10-08-2018 at 03:59 AM.

10-07-2018, 06:48 PM	#6921
gkolb Blu-ray Samurai Member since: Feb 2012 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 4,818 Thanks: 21,530 Thanked 2,397 times in 1,431 posts	^ - Penton, Look forward to hearing what these projects are.

10-07-2018, 06:54 PM	#6922
Jumpman Blu-ray Champion Member since: Nov 2008 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 10,364 Thanks: 2,375 Thanked 3,786 times in 1,834 posts	Is Dolby Vision suppose to look a bit more natural than HDR10? So, bought a TCL 6-Series panel on Friday and I've got the Apple TV 4K and the first generation Philips 4K player hooked up to it. I've spent an entire day "calibrating" the various modes as best I could and right now, I'm streaming BATMAN v SUPERMAN via the Apple TV 4K in Dolby Vision while on disc, it's in HDR10. The results are...interesting. Like, HDR10 has more pop and I kind of feeling like the color tend to over do it in HDR10, while in Dolby Vision, yes, things a "tad" dimmer but everything looks more natural looking, but the pop of HDR isn't gone. I am wondering, as a novice and I know it does vary between the content, if the two HDR formats are suppose to look drastically different or slightly different from one another. Thanks...

10-07-2018, 08:00 PM	#6923
LordoftheRings Special Member Member since: Mar 2010 Location: Portishead ♫ Posts: 28,561 Thanks: 4,112 Thanked 6,899 times in 4,825 posts	We need a HDR/Dolby Vision expert, like from Sony, from Dolby Labs, from Hollywood Universal movie studios. No theory, not salad on papers, real physical applications and measured results. Someone unbiased, neutral, educative, professionally honest, someone advanced, calibrated and from a higher level. Panasonic seems to be the new Professional Hollywood video expert, with their new HDR Optimizer chips inside their players, and their OLED HDR TVs for sale in Europe and Canada. I'm no expert, Dolby Vision seems to be @ best when streaming. HDR excels @ both streaming and physical HDR BR discs. Yeah, a Sony expert, a professional video expert. ...And a Dolby Labs pro guy. Are you experienced? https://vimeo.com/109988488

10-08-2018, 12:07 AM	#6927
Geoff D Blu-ray Emperor Member since: Feb 2009 Location: Swanage, Engerland Posts: 97,980 Thanks: 68,783 Thanked 159,927 times in 49,763 posts	Apart from the raised letterbox bars on darker full-field content in DV I can detect very few differences between it and HDR10 on the Sony ZD9 in terms of APL, colour, retention of highlight detail and so on. But then I've made sure that the HDR10 is tracking the correct brightness curve (having also tested the same patterns in forced DV) and used the same white balance calibration on both. If I had to pick them apart in a blind test on this TV I'd be very hard pressed to do so (black bars aside), although on very close scrutiny the DV seems to have a slightly more involving usage of the local dimming, but then that could just be my eyes playing tricks as I haven't directly compared two sources back and forth at the same time.

10-08-2018, 01:55 AM	#6932
Penton-Man Retired Hollywood Insider Member since: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,165 Thanks: 24 Thanked 4,173 times in 3,113 posts	Waboman, where are you? Do you possess any beach football or soccer skills?

10-08-2018, 01:59 AM	#6933
Penton-Man Retired Hollywood Insider Member since: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,165 Thanks: 24 Thanked 4,173 times in 3,113 posts	Super busy for next few days, keep the thread warm. Later.