4K Movies Releases

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

But, we here are not:

After Earth
Sony
Deluxe Digital Cinema
4k Scope (4096x1716)
108 GB
Run Time: 1:34:19
5.1 Audio

P.S. Steedeel, congrats on signing Ba today….what’s that make it, 6 or 7 guys you’ve added to the team already ?

Peruzzi, huddlestone and Giaccherini to come with more expected. That's about 15 million I think, plus whatever the rest will cost. That would make it eleven new signings with the three I just mentioned. Already spent plenty of money on previous signings as well as a few bosman frees!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Peruzzi, huddlestone and Giaccherini to come with more expected. That's about 15 million I think, plus whatever the rest will cost. That would make it eleven new signings with the three I just mentioned. Already spent plenty of money on previous signings as well as a few bosman frees!

Good for you . I hope the Black Cats do well this year, not only because I’m your friend but also because I simply love to see Di Canio so animated along the touchline during matches. I like seeing that in a manger.

From the Prem onto the business side of potential 4K 2014 Brazil World Cup News… http://svgeurope.org/blog/headlines/...ons-cup-tests/

[Penton-Man]

More on the business side of things, but this time with cinema…recalling Oblivion was shot with a true (attention Sap) 4K camera, in the end it was finished in 2K.

DCP
2048 x 858 (2K scope)
110GB
5.1 sound

Any guesses as to roughly how much more it would have cost the producers to have finished the flick in 4K?

Answer…






About 1½ million $ more.

[Penton-Man]

Heads-up to SoCal locals with the day off and perhaps headed to the beach, for on the way there you can also check out in person 4K by LG (on Wilshire)…. http://www.twice.com/articletype/new...-center/107639

I imagine you should be able to directly compare them to the same-sized Sony brand models…. http://www.twice.com/articletype/new...4k-sets/105978

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Good for you . I hope the Black Cats do well this year, not only because I’m your friend but also because I simply love to see Di Canio so animated along the touchline during matches. I like seeing that in a manger.

From the Prem onto the business side of potential 4K 2014 Brazil World Cup News… http://svgeurope.org/blog/headlines/...ons-cup-tests/

Well arsenal saved our ass last year so I will shout for them as my second team!

[tob]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Well arsenal saved our ass last year so I will shout for them as my second team!

Thanks man

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by tob

Thanks man

My pleasure. We may even start playing like arsenal under de canio. Excited by some of the players he is bringing in.

So next season my teams are

1. Obviously Sunderland, red and white blood through my veins
2. Arsenal for my online buds
3. Whoever Newcastle are playing

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Being an American, I’m a little embarrassed to admit that I don’t follow any American soccer players ….unless they play in the English Premier League and I happen to watch their respective team play (e.g. never seen Hull City play).

The only real exception to that, coincidentally (in regards to your Black Cats) has been that I followed the career of Claudio Reyna since he graduated from THE University…. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudio_Reyna

Also, I’m a donor to his foundation… http://www.claudioreynafoundation.org/

I don’t even watch the U.S. National Team play any WCQs, except when they go against Mexico since that’s a rather big rivalry for us Americans. So, I can’t help you out on the Jozy thing.

The American player I admire the most…because of his excellent workman-like quality and skill (relative to other American field players) is without a doubt, Clint Dempsey.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/report-...145300063.html

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

More on the business side of things, but this time with cinema…recalling Oblivion was shot with a true (attention Sap) 4K camera, in the end it was finished in 2K.

DCP
2048 x 858 (2K scope)
110GB
5.1 sound

Any guesses as to roughly how much more it would have cost the producers to have finished the flick in 4K?

Answer…

About 1½ million $ more.

That seems like a very silly thing to quibble over considering that 1.5 million is roughly 1-2% of the film's total budget of $120 million. This also gives them a more future-proof DI to mine 4k content from.

Then again, they may just sell upconverted 2k content and slap a 4k label on it, just as many Hong Kong studios sell DVD sourced content on BD without indicating that it is not from an HD quality source.

It is also strange that After Earth is 108 GB despite being a 4K DCP. Based on that data rate After Earth would be 138GB if it were the same length as Obvilion which is only a 27% increase in file size despite being 4K. Are there any bit rate standards for DCPs, Penton? Or can studios pretty much send whatever they want? I know going from 2K to 4K doesn't necessarily result in a doubling of the file size but I'd expect it to be more than 27% given that both DCPs use the JPEG2000 codec.

I remember my friend saying that Happy Feet was ~30 GB or so for the DCP whereas Casino Royale was over 100GB. Sony consistently had the largest DCP file sizes whereas Warner's were the smallest. That was a while ago so I wonder if anything's changed.

[Canada]

We do need 4K technology TV's are getting bigger all the time but where we really need it is for people who have projectors.

[Canada]

Are the movies that come Sony's 4K TV, do they have lossless audio, I would assume so.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Canada

We do need 4K technology TV's are getting bigger all the time but where we really need it is for people who have projectors.

Agreed

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/report-...145300063.html

Well those Brazilians can be tough to compete against for a position on the roster.

Anway, if Clint ends up being transferred to you guys I feel certain he’ll give 100% because he’s a very unselfish, team-oriented player.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by singhcr

...Are there any bit rate standards for DCPs, Penton? Or can studios pretty much send whatever they want?...

I’ll need about 15 min. to type up a response to that because I’m not sure how familiar people are with the basics of this topic and it will take some time to explain things. Plus, you’ve also touched on something important to 4K delivery into the home.

Be patient. I’ll be back.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by singhcr

...Are there any bit rate standards for DCPs, Penton? Or can studios pretty much send whatever they want?...

Well there are maximum standards (a maximum allowable data rate) and recommended practices but, other than that, the content providers can do whatever they want in terms of how low a bit rate they wish to go with the picture quality.

What I mean is that in order to be DCI compliant, the maximum allowed data rate for the JPEG 2000 images in a DCP (for the formats most here are familiar with) is 250 Mbit/s…..and that applies to both 2K and 4K DCPs. In other words, the DCI specs allow for any image data rate as long as it doesn’t peak above 250 Mbit/s.

Last Sept. (with the impetus being The Hobbit), a maximum compressed bit rate of 500 Mb/sec was recommended for HFR content (see the various red Ps here…
http://www.dcimovies.com/Recommended..._2012-0928.pdf )

So, in essence for practically all theatrical motion pictures these days think of 250 Mbit/s as being the maximum allowable bit rate. Note that this rate is for the image only, whereas the audio and subtitles have their own separate data rate. At the maximum (constant) data rate of 250 Mbit/s a two hour movie would result in a DCP of around 230 GB (image only)…which would give maximum allowable quality per DCI spec. To make DCPs as compact as possible in order to save space, etc., in practice, variable data rates between 80 Mbit/s - 150 Mbit/s usually lead to results which are deemed acceptable by the studios. In fact, most of the encoding systems default to ~125 Mbit/s for just 2K content. At a data rate of 125 Mbit/s, a two hour movie would result in a DCP of around 115 GBytes in size (image only).

If the data rate is set too low then the images will first become soft or blurry before more annoying compression artifacts become visible. In that regard, maybe the Director and D.P. could, but I doubt typical theatrical movie-goers could recognize whether the images they’re viewing were a little softer with *frugal* bit rates than if the studio (or whoever they hire to produce the actual DCP (e.g. Deluxe) alternatively had used a higher bit rate for optimal quality within DCI standards. DCPs do seem to be getting smaller and smaller over the years and some question whether theatrical audiences are seeing the maximum quality that JPEG 2000 is capable of….especially for 4K DCPs….because of the incentive to make DCPs as small as possible.

You know you’ve hit upon something (compression) which is also relevant to upcoming 4K media content into the home (be it Sony’s hockey puck, satellite 4K, cable 4K, whatever) and a quality issue which despite being quite critical and deserving, is not given nearly the same attention by video bloggers as is ‘true’ 4K (4096) vs. consumer (3840) 4K or HDMI 2.0 (despite the real world fact of the preponderance of 4K 24 fps cinema for which current HDMI works just fine). Hmm, there must be a lot of movie nerds out there on the world wide web who are closet sports junkies who really need frame rates > 24 fps. Right. There’s Stee, Tob and me, there’s …Stee,…Tob and….me., there's...

Anyway, it sure would be nice to see some comparison demos at trade shows, etc. showing imaging samples at various diminishing bit rates of whatever the current distribution codec of choice for consumer 4K might be… be it eyeIO’s optimization of H.264, or HEVC, in order to see exactly how much softening is occurring with the compression of the native material. Granted, avid home theater enthusiasts will appreciate the difference in picture quality but, even with original camera acquired 4K material, the visual difference in the resolution of typical ‘uncompressed’ 4K imagery is not overwhelming (i.e. knock your socks off) compared to ‘uncompressed’ HD at optimal viewing distances and then if it is being further diluted by aggressive compression…..well, you’re not going to end up getting much of a benefit at all from your 4K content no matter if it’s shown on a projection screen or a 55” TV at home.

Frame rates for 4K > 24fps are a valid and deserving issue (I’m a big advocate) for non-cinematic content like some sports for the future but, a more immediate concern right now should be how truly visually lossless these compression schemes are to ‘uncompressed’ camera content and encouraging the industry-at-large to show it/prove it to you rather than showing pretty pictures without providing viewing audiences any ‘control’ group.

[Penton-Man]

Hey, I notice this thread rolled over the 150,000 mark....and it's a tech thread, no less.

Good job contributors.....and lurkers.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

What I mean is that in order to be DCI compliant, the maximum allowed data rate for the JPEG 2000 images in a DCP (for the formats most here are familiar with) is 250 Mbit/s…..and that applies to both 2K and 4K DCPs. In other words, the DCI specs allow for any image data rate as long as it doesn’t peak above 250 Mbit/s.

Last Sept. (with the impetus being The Hobbit), a maximum compressed bit rate of 500 Mb/sec was recommended for HFR content (see the various red Ps here…
http://www.dcimovies.com/Recommended..._2012-0928.pdf )...

Forgot to mention, that SMPTE will soon be coming out with its own recommendations including the following formats…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...te#post7712655

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Heads-up to SoCal locals with the day off and perhaps headed to the beach, for on the way there you can also check out in person 4K by LG (on Wilshire)…. http://www.twice.com/articletype/new...-center/107639...

Well, the local news crew showed up for the event ^.
From my local TV channel (KABC TV)…http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/video?id=9171376

As an aside, at first I thought the reporter said “Dallas Raines’s ‘crotch’ coming straight at you”

Interesting aside, the LG rep said that the 7900 series would have HEVC decoders (good for 4K content esp. due to its efficiency). But, come to think of it, doesn’t matter which codec decoder you have, if you don’t have access to the popular 4K content to begin with.

In other words, Sony’s hockey puck won’t work with the LG tv so, for the time being these TVs are limited to accessing such niche things as 4K internet streaming (compression ?????), future broadcast and boutique 4K services…..perhaps until the PS4 arrives on scene. Sony is not dumb.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well those Brazilians can be tough to compete against for a position on the roster.

Anway, if Clint ends up being transferred to you guys I feel certain he’ll give 100% because he’s a very unselfish, team-oriented player.

True, I don't think it will happen though.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Anyway, it sure would be nice to see some comparison demos at trade shows, etc. showing imaging samples at various diminishing bit rates of whatever the current distribution codec of choice for consumer 4K might be… be it eyeIO’s optimization of H.264, or HEVC, in order to see exactly how much softening is occurring with the compression of the native material.

Granted, avid home theater enthusiasts will appreciate the difference in picture quality but, even with original camera acquired 4K material, the visual difference in the resolution of typical ‘uncompressed’ 4K imagery is not overwhelming (i.e. knock your socks off) compared to ‘uncompressed’ HD at optimal viewing distances and then if it is being further diluted by aggressive compression…..well, you’re not going to end up getting much of a benefit at all from your 4K content no matter if it’s shown on a projection screen or a 55” TV at home...

This is what I’m talking about. See pages 36 – 38 …. http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/events/webin...dHD_update.pdf

P.S.
Credit and thanks goes to an amateur British cycling EBU member for sending me the link ^ today to the illustrative pdf file by Dr. Hoffmann.

So, back at you . Vive le Tour! ...http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-...froome-2053895