Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

I am quite happy with the mix, but of course, it's not on par with the the sheer awesomeness of TPM and AOTC.

I can't comment on the BD but the DVD sounded almost like it didn't have any LFE sound. When the ships explode in the beginning and the Jedi fighters fly through the debris, the first time I watched it I thought 'this is going to take my face off,' but nothing much happened. It's a shame as AotC had one of the best sounds in history of cinema with the seismic charges during the Obi-Wan/Jango asteroid chase.

Update: I just played the beginning on my PC and while there is quite a lot of bass the explosions seem more subdued than previous episodes.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by iamsometal

Funny coincidence, AlexSing, I too am watching TPM on blu for the first time. Borrowed the set from a friend to watch the bonus features, and thought i'd demo my new sound system with TPM. I also wanted to give the film itself another shot, thinking the improved PQ and stellar AQ would help sway my feelings a bit.

So far i'm not swayed in the least. My main issue is that i'm bored to the point of posting here while i'm in the middle of the film. Jar Jar and Anakin are still as grating as ever, and the acting performances are lousy across the board (the only performances that aren't irritating are Neeson, McGregor and the few appearances of Ray Park). The story still makes no sense whatsoever. The sound quality is pretty amazing though, and the PQ is a mixed bag. Faces look waxy, but most all-CGI shots look pretty impressive. I just hit the Tatooine part of the film, so hopefully the podrace will be mind-blowing.

What bothers me the most is how much of a waste Kenobi and Darth Maul are in this film. Had there have been way more focus on those two characters, i might be enjoying this alot more. Jar Jar inexplicably has 10 times the screen time that Maul has, and possibly twice as much screen time as Kenobi. Had tehy actually fleshed Maul out as a character, he might have been a compelling villain, rather than just a cool looking action figure.

And holy crap are all of the child actors horrible in this. Why Lucas needed to put his and other crew's kids in this is beyond me. Okay, podrace is starting, gonna try to enjoy this one scene.

Edit: Yeah, the podrace is still an amazing sequence, and a visual and audio spectacle. It's definitely the highlight of this blu-ray. That was one of the sickest examples of DTS-HD audio i've heard on my system so far. LOVE the sound of Sebulba's podracer engines. The PQ was also uniformly terrific. Now i'm in the Coruscant sequence, and bored to tears again. I forgot Terence Stamp was in this! And like most other great actors in this film, a completely wasted asset.

Edit #2: Why the heck doesn't Obi-Wan have his super speed he had in the beginning of the film when Qui-Gon is fighting Darth Maul? And Anakin accidentally blowing up the trade federation ship is still absolutely, mind-numbingly dumb. The final battle between Obi-Wan and Darth Maul is way too choreographed and over-rehearsed. It looked more like a dance number than a lightsaber battle. I will say it sounded INCREDIBLE though. So did the space "battle." Also, the digital Yoda is an improvement over the rapey-looking puppet in the original version. That's one change i can support. Though i think it's a disservice to Frank Oz's fantastic performance. Oh well, at least his voice work is still there.

Overall thoughts: Looks good (even great at times), sounds FANTASTIC, but still a dreadful disappointment. Jar Jar and Jake Lloyd are still the two worst parts of the film, but it's got so many other problems. It's a boring mess from beginning to end, except for the podrace. That sequence still rocks! I so want to love this film, hence the disappointment. Sadly, i'd rather watch TPM than the other two prequels. Goes to show how much i loathe AOTC and ROTS.

A lot of your points about the film are dead on. Im still a fan of the PT overall but it just could have been SO much better. Froma technical standpoint its mostly fine but they really screwed up the human/character development portions.

- Obi Wan does nothing at all. Hes a central character, IMO and may as well just be a henchmen in this film.

- Qui Gon is actually cool and I like his rebellious, rogue attitude sometimes but he gets killed. Meh.

- The whole trade blockade doesnt make much sense. Here is a high-tech planet(Naboo) with obvious resources to spare and a few days of a trade blockade cause widespread death and starvation? Huh? And, what does The Trade Fedration stand to gain in all this? Its just a mess of a plot and then some.

- Anakin should NOT have been so young in this film. It kills his character arc over the next two films since in AOTC hes so much older that we are essentially starting over. Hes just a dorky kid in TPM and then becomes an obnoxious teen in the next film. Doesnt work. He should have been about 12 to 14 years old on TPM and then 19 to 22 years old in AOTC.

Oh well, they are what they are. Just could have been so much better.

[iamsometal]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

A lot of your points about the film are dead on. Im still a fan of the PT overall but it just could have been SO much better. Froma technical standpoint its mostly fine but they really screwed up the human/character development portions.

- Obi Wan does nothing at all. Hes a central character, IMO and may as well just be a henchmen in this film.

- Qui Gon is actually cool and I like his rebellious, rogue attitude sometimes but he gets killed. Meh.

- The whole trade blockade doesnt make much sense. Here is a high-tech planet(Naboo) with obvious resources to spare and a few days of a trade blockade cause widespread death and starvation? Huh? And, what does The Trade Fedration stand to gain in all this? Its just a mess of a plot and then some.

- Anakin should NOT have been so young in this film. It kills his character arc over the next two films since in AOTC hes so much older that we are essentially starting over. Hes just a dorky kid in TPM and then becomes an obnoxious teen in the next film. Doesnt work. He should have been about 12 to 14 years old on TPM and then 19 to 22 years old in AOTC.

Oh well, they are what they are. Just could have been so much better.

Agreed on all counts. Qui Gon is the closest thing we get to a real flesh-and-blood protagonist that we can route for. I would have liked some more of his and Obi Wan's history. I think they should have just brought Anakin in at the same age as Luke in ANH. That way we could have avoided having any child actors in it at all. You're right though, even having Anakin be a teenager rather than a child would have been an improvement.

As far as the Trade Federation's invasion, i just didn't believe any of it. It might have to do with the fact that we don't see any of the planet's civilians until the parade at the very end of the film. And we don't ever witness any of the death and suffering they say is going on. How are people dying after 2 days of no trade? Don't they have food in their cupboards? Are they getting murdered by the trade federation in a holocaust? I was more confused watching it yesterday then i ever was. The fact that most major plot developments occur during meetings made me realize that this movie was just a bunch of meetings, cut apart by a few great action sequences. It seemed like every 15 minutes we were watching people have a meeting, then another, and another. And Jar Jar, it just boggles my mind that they gave this annoying creature so much screen time, and gave Darth Maul next to nothing. He could have been SUCH a cool villain. I would have liked to see some of his origins, his training, anything really. It's mind blowing how the story is just lacking the least amount of basic fantasy/sci fi storytelling or common sense.

I still had fun watching it though, mainly because of the AQ and laughing at the child performances. LOVED the punch of the lightsaber hits, the blaster sounds, and all of the sound during the space battle at the end. And that podrace, holy crap on a cracker that sounded AWESOME!

At times, it looked phenomenal too. It seemed to me that any bright day-lit scene was less DNR'ed, especially when there was alot of CGI on screen. Like they DNR'ed the plate footage that was shot on film first, then animated the CGI characters and backrounds over top of that, leaving the human characters looking waxy. It looked super scrubbed and lacked detail in most of the darker scenes at night, except for that final space battle, which looked mostly incredible. But since that was mostly CGI anyway, no need to scrub the heck out of those images.

I just wish i could get past Hayden Christensen's performance in AOTC and ROTS so i could get through them again, but i just can't. It's not like he's a child actor that you can just enjoy laughing at. His dialogue delivery sounds like a grown man speaking with a toddler's voice, constantly pouting and whimpering. I'm sure it looks and sounds incredible though, so maybe i'll put it in when i'm cleaning the house today or something.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by iamsometal

Agreed on all counts. Qui Gon is the closest thing we get to a real flesh-and-blood protagonist that we can route for. I would have liked some more of his and Obi Wan's history. I think they should have just brought Anakin in at the same age as Luke in ANH. That way we could have avoided having any child actors in it at all. You're right though, even having Anakin be a teenager rather than a child would have been an improvement.

As far as the Trade Federation's invasion, i just didn't believe any of it. It might have to do with the fact that we don't see any of the planet's civilians until the parade at the very end of the film. And we don't ever witness any of the death and suffering they say is going on. How are people dying after 2 days of no trade? Don't they have food in their cupboards? Are they getting murdered by the trade federation in a holocaust? I was more confused watching it yesterday then i ever was. The fact that most major plot developments occur during meetings made me realize that this movie was just a bunch of meetings, cut apart by a few great action sequences. It seemed like every 15 minutes we were watching people have a meeting, then another, and another. And Jar Jar, it just boggles my mind that they gave this annoying creature so much screen time, and gave Darth Maul next to nothing. He could have been SUCH a cool villain. I would have liked to see some of his origins, his training, anything really. It's mind blowing how the story is just lacking the least amount of basic fantasy/sci fi storytelling or common sense.

I still had fun watching it though, mainly because of the AQ and laughing at the child performances. LOVED the punch of the lightsaber hits, the blaster sounds, and all of the sound during the space battle at the end. And that podrace, holy crap on a cracker that sounded AWESOME!

At times, it looked phenomenal too. It seemed to me that any bright day-lit scene was less DNR'ed, especially when there was alot of CGI on screen. Like they DNR'ed the plate footage that was shot on film first, then animated the CGI characters and backrounds over top of that, leaving the human characters looking waxy. It looked super scrubbed and lacked detail in most of the darker scenes at night, except for that final space battle, which looked mostly incredible. But since that was mostly CGI anyway, no need to scrub the heck out of those images.

I just wish i could get past Hayden Christensen's performance in AOTC and ROTS so i could get through them again, but i just can't. It's not like he's a child actor that you can just enjoy laughing at. His dialogue delivery sounds like a grown man speaking with a toddler's voice, constantly pouting and whimpering. I'm sure it looks and sounds incredible though, so maybe i'll put it in when i'm cleaning the house today or something.

Yep - Im with ya. I will defend Christainsen a bit though since neither he nor most other people were given much to work with. The dialog is just bad and can only be delivered in such a way, it seems. There are enough cool things going on for me to watch and I guess enjoy the prequels but damnit...the logic gaps and plot contrivances are just numerous. And, you'd think George or somebody would have caught these.

No film is perfect, I can find little things here and there in even the greatest films that are a little dodgy of convenient. But, the prequels have a very rushed feel to them. Like noone thought any of this out or realized that the plots are illogical and inconsistent. Unless someone DID know but didnt want to say anything to George.

Ah well - they are what they are. A lost opportunity, except for some cool stuff.

[Howdy]

^^^^

I just wanted to point out to the above posters that nowhere in TPM did they say that the trade federation blockade was in place for only 2 days. The movie begins with the blockade in place, so we are led to believe it has been in place for a long time already. That is why the two jedi are sent to negotiate secretly for the chancellor. Palpatine is the puppet master behind everything as darth sidious, as the trade federation are doing his bidding. He's creating the crisis on naboo to ultimately get the chancellor removed and gain his seat.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Howdy

^^^^

I just wanted to point out to the above posters that nowhere in TPM did they say that the trade federation blockade was in place for only 2 days. The movie begins with the blockade in place, so we are led to believe it has been in place for a long time already. That is why the two jedi are sent to negotiate secretly for the chancellor. Palpatine is the puppet master behind everything as darth sidious, as the trade federation are doing his bidding. He's creating the crisis on naboo to ultimately get the chancellor removed and gain his seat.

I get ya - but the whole thing still seems to be a stretch. This planet *appeared* to be fairly well developed and capable of survival for a long period of time. The blockade also didnt appear to be that hard to get through - our heroes did it with one ship without much fuss. Its not like the entire planet was surrounded either - the opposite side was unprotected. Think of how hard and long it would take to truly deprive a planet enough to cause starvation and dying as its said to be happening in this flick. And, as one poster mentioned, they could have shown us some of this carnage. It just would have felt more realistic and believable. Naboo looked to have a ton of water and plenty of other resources. If they would have at least explained a shortage of a key resource that the planet didnt have, it would have also helped. But we are meant to just accept they are starving and dying - like a third-world country on Earth would be. Doesnt work.

I also get the whole Palpatine thing. That still doesnt explain what the Federation was getting out of the deal. They were putting just about everything at risk...for what exactly? This happens again in the next two films - The Federation gets used as a Pawn with nothing tangible to gain. These are details that would have helped to know more about. There was little motivation for Gunray to do all of this, IMO.

Plenty of holes and "huhs?" in this film. Doesnt mean I dislike it - I do enjoy it overall. They needed to tighten this stuff up better though. I understand they needed to get palptine more power to further the plot and such but it could have bveen handled better, IMO.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Howdy

I just wanted to point out to the above posters that nowhere in TPM did they say that the trade federation blockade was in place for only 2 days.

We don't really know how long they've been there for though, it's one of the little cheats of the Star Wars Universe where parallel stories seem to take different lengths of time but meet up together at a certain point.

Luke training with Yoda while Han, Leia and company travel to Bespin is another example.

My only criticism of the whole Trade Federation is that they don't really do anything and we don't see the Nabooian's suffer. The Federation cuts a few trees down and makes a few pilots sit in a hangar and that's about it. They even left that gigantic power generator running. We don't have any perspective on the size of the population either (although they throw a good funeral at the end of TPM). Perhaps Lucas didn't want to start the story off too heavy, I'm not sure a Star Wars film would work with it's target audience been shown concentration camps full of starving prisoners (although the Clone Wars series has touched on similar things) and burning homes (although Episode IV went there).

The BBFC did a Podcast the other day and they said that A New Hope wouldn't have gotten a U rating if it had been submitted today because of some of the images in it push what's acceptable for that classification even with a fantasy film.

[Howdy]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

I get ya - but the whole thing still seems to be a stretch. This planet *appeared* to be fairly well developed and capable of survival for a long period of time. The blockade also didnt appear to be that hard to get through - our heroes did it with one ship without much fuss. Its not like the entire planet was surrounded either - the opposite side was unprotected. Think of how hard and long it would take to truly deprive a planet enough to cause starvation and dying as its said to be happening in this flick. And, as one poster mentioned, they could have shown us some of this carnage. It just would have felt more realistic and believable. Naboo looked to have a ton of water and plenty of other resources. If they would have at least explained a shortage of a key resource that the planet didnt have, it would have also helped. But we are meant to just accept they are starving and dying - like a third-world country on Earth would be. Doesnt work.

I also get the whole Palpatine thing. That still doesnt explain what the Federation was getting out of the deal. They were putting just about everything at risk...for what exactly? This happens again in the next two films - The Federation gets used as a Pawn with nothing tangible to gain. These are details that would have helped to know more about. There was little motivation for Gunray to do all of this, IMO.

Plenty of holes and "huhs?" in this film. Doesnt mean I dislike it - I do enjoy it overall. They needed to tighten this stuff up better though. I understand they needed to get palptine more power to further the plot and such but it could have bveen handled better, IMO.

I hear ya, but sometimes the audience has to suspend their disbelief and just enjoy the ride.

[Breather]

Originally Posted by Dotpattern

For quite some time now, and I may get flamed for this, I've felt that a "change" that needed to be made to ROTJ was to include CGI Ewoks and Stormtroopers for just 1 or 2 shots. 1) To show how incredibly outnumbered the Stormtroopers are - this would help give credibility that the Stormtroopers could be over-powered and 2) to show that Ewoks actually have the strength of chimpanzees which would also easily help explain just how devastating their attacks are on any given Stormtrooper.

That's an excellent idea. I usually only support effects fixes like fixing lightsabers, matte boxes, matte lines, orange glob under speeder, etc., and I actually prefer the UOT to the SE's, but that's the kind of change I would support. Your idea would take what is now a completely unbelievable sequence and the biggest weakness in the OT, in my opinion, and improve its credibility greatly. As long as the CGI was top notch and blended in properly, that would work well.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Howdy

I hear ya, but sometimes the audience has to suspend their disbelief and just enjoy the ride.

And I most certainly do

[AlexSing]

Originally Posted by iamsometal

Funny coincidence, AlexSing, I too am watching TPM on blu for the first time. Borrowed the set from a friend to watch the bonus features, and thought i'd demo my new sound system with TPM. I also wanted to give the film itself another shot, thinking the improved PQ and stellar AQ would help sway my feelings a bit.

So far i'm not swayed in the least. My main issue is that i'm bored to the point of posting here while i'm in the middle of the film. Jar Jar and Anakin are still as grating as ever, and the acting performances are lousy across the board (the only performances that aren't irritating are Neeson, McGregor and the few appearances of Ray Park). The story still makes no sense whatsoever. The sound quality is pretty amazing though, and the PQ is a mixed bag. Faces look waxy, but most all-CGI shots look pretty impressive. I just hit the Tatooine part of the film, so hopefully the podrace will be mind-blowing.

What bothers me the most is how much of a waste Kenobi and Darth Maul are in this film. Had there have been way more focus on those two characters, i might be enjoying this alot more. Jar Jar inexplicably has 10 times the screen time that Maul has, and possibly twice as much screen time as Kenobi. Had tehy actually fleshed Maul out as a character, he might have been a compelling villain, rather than just a cool looking action figure.

And holy crap are all of the child actors horrible in this. Why Lucas needed to put his and other crew's kids in this is beyond me. Okay, podrace is starting, gonna try to enjoy this one scene.

Edit: Yeah, the podrace is still an amazing sequence, and a visual and audio spectacle. It's definitely the highlight of this blu-ray. That was one of the sickest examples of DTS-HD audio i've heard on my system so far. LOVE the sound of Sebulba's podracer engines. The PQ was also uniformly terrific. Now i'm in the Coruscant sequence, and bored to tears again. I forgot Terence Stamp was in this! And like most other great actors in this film, a completely wasted asset.

Edit #2: Why the heck doesn't Obi-Wan have his super speed he had in the beginning of the film when Qui-Gon is fighting Darth Maul? And Anakin accidentally blowing up the trade federation ship is still absolutely, mind-numbingly dumb. The final battle between Obi-Wan and Darth Maul is way too choreographed and over-rehearsed. It looked more like a dance number than a lightsaber battle. I will say it sounded INCREDIBLE though. So did the space "battle." Also, the digital Yoda is an improvement over the rapey-looking puppet in the original version. That's one change i can support. Though i think it's a disservice to Frank Oz's fantastic performance. Oh well, at least his voice work is still there.

Overall thoughts: Looks good (even great at times), sounds FANTASTIC, but still a dreadful disappointment. Jar Jar and Jake Lloyd are still the two worst parts of the film, but it's got so many other problems. It's a boring mess from beginning to end, except for the podrace. That sequence still rocks! I so want to love this film, hence the disappointment. Sadly, i'd rather watch TPM than the other two prequels. Goes to show how much i loathe AOTC and ROTS.

Well I've just finished the final two prequels and here are my thoughts:

Ep2 : AQ is fine, not amazing - certainly not as good at Ep1 - but not bad. And PQ is again fine. Some lovely shots and plenty of average ones too. Parts looked gorgeous but only CGI cities / space scenes etc.

Now I promise I went into the movie with an open mind but I have to say it's an absolute travesty of a film. I won't repeat what's been said a hundred times before but Annikin is horrific, the love story between him and padame is laughable bordering on unwatchable (as is the dialogue between them. Only Obi-Wan's "good call Annikin" and Yoda's "A perimiter around them we must make" have similar cringe factor). The action is just puked out at you to the point of there being so much going on it becomes boring, and the only interesting bits were Obi Wan discovering the clone army and.....er, well I can't think of much else (and I only watched it yesterday) - and that's me being kind. Of all of the plot holes, one that stands out that I can't remember anyone bringing up is why was padame being protected from outside her bedroom that had a huge window with no blinds or curtains closed, with one pane of glass that anyone could fly up to undetected and try and kill her? And why didn't the assasin just shoot her? Grrr.... That's just one example of not thinking it through and just rushing the making of the movie.
I really, truthfully hated it and I promise I wanted to like it. I could go on but others have said lots of the other points that I want to say, only more eloquently.


Ep3: AQ - disappointing in comparison to the other 2. Not bad, but nowhere close to reference and as this is Star Wars that's a huge let down. PQ however, was awesome. It looked great from beginnng to end.

Now nearly everyone says this is probably the best of the new movies and I have to agree, although that's not to say I thought it was great. Minor irritations: Annikin's continued whining, not helping Windu, and then killing the children (I love how they're called "younglings" so George didn't have to have characters say "he's slaughtered little children") - SO unnecessry, even from a character development point of view. It's just not the Vader I knew and feared. Baby killer? Come off it, he doesn't have to kill babies for us to believe his transition you moron. Also (and I'm not sure anyone has said this) how comes when they rescue the Chancellor they crash land a huge spaceship with a space-age control panel and digital plasma read-outs everywhere and yet when Vader is on the bridge of the ship at the end, the controls everywhere are pure 70's knobs and levers without a digital readout in sight. I know that ties in with the tech of the OT but I thought the fanboy excuse was that technology regressed during the clone wars, not in 45 minutes? It just felt weird and out of place.
Finally, I have to bring it up, but the Nooooooooo at the end would have been fine had he not stretched his arms out like a little *****. A clenched fist at most would have sufficed.

That being said, it was still a huge clunker but after the first two movies it wasn't that bad with several redeeming features. At least there was some kind of plot. And on that note, for films so obviously aimed at a younger audience - and that in itself is fine with me - why did the plot of all 3, especially the first, have to be so intricate to the point of not really making sense? I don't have anything to do with the expanded universe so I can't fill any gaps so at times I found myself having trouble explaining it all to my wife, and I promise I'm not THAT stupid.

Again, there are hundreds of points I could make but I'll leave it there. These are my honest feelings and I'm not looking for an argument. Maybe the reason I feel more annoyed with these films compared to other bad films that I just watch and forget is that all the way through you see how good they could have been. If only George had cared more and not been so lazy. That for me is what makes them unforgiveable

(I'm still glad I watched them though, if only to say I have).

OT and special features next weekend

[Mr. Movie Fan]

Originally Posted by Breather

That's an excellent idea. I usually only support effects fixes like fixing lightsabers, matte boxes, matte lines, orange glob under speeder, etc., and I actually prefer the UOT to the SE's, but that's the kind of change I would support. Your idea would take what is now a completely unbelievable sequence and the biggest weakness in the OT, in my opinion, and improve its credibility greatly. As long as the CGI was top notch and blended in properly, that would work well.

I take it you weren't aware that the Ewoks are an analog to the Vietcong?
Now is it all so unbelievable?

[AlexSing]

Originally Posted by Fanboyz

I take it you weren't aware that the Ewoks are an analog to the Vietcong?
Now is it all so unbelievable?

I never knew that (as a kid).

TBF the Vietcong had some kick-Ass tree houses.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by Fanboyz

I take it you weren't aware that the Ewoks are an analog to the Vietcong?
Now is it all so unbelievable?

The concept of the Ewoks being an analog to the Viet Cong wasn't the problem, it was the execution of the concept. The VC were humans fighting other lightly-equipped humans who really didn't want to be there, whereas the Ewoks were 2ft Teddy Ruxpin clones fighting what was supposed to be crack Imperial troops with freakin' body armor, posted at what was at the moment the Empire's most important installation.

Sure it was established in ANH that their armor was useless against blasters, but against sticks and rocks? That's where it fell apart for me....

[JamesKurtovich]

I never questioned the Ewoks ability to take out the Imperial army.. but then again I was a kid when I watched RotJ...

[Breather]

Originally Posted by Fanboyz

I take it you weren't aware that the Ewoks are an analog to the Vietcong?
Now is it all so unbelievable?

Quite unbelievable, in my opinion. I'm well aware of what he was going for on paper; the idea of a primitive force taking down a sophisticated, well-armed, advanced force, with heart, drive, and determination overcoming a more powerful, yet arrogant enemy. It's a great idea in theory but it failed in execution, in my opinion. You have a small number of teddy bears with sticks, stones, spears, and slingshots defeating soldiers with body armor, blasters, and AT-ST's. It's not believable and certainly not analogous to what the US faced from the North in Vietnam. Therein lies the problem. The Ewoks were not in any way comparable to the Vietnamese.

In addition, for anyone not familiar with the history of the Vietnam War, the People's Army and the Vietcong weren't quite the backward force that Lucas believed they were. The Ewoks were not analogous to the Communists. These were not men fighting with just tunnels, grenades, and rifles as the movies will often try to portray them. The VC also possessed machine guns and substantial small arms. Without the efforts of the NVA, China, and the Soviet Union, the VC would have had little effect on the overall outcome. The Vietcong would often blend in with the general populace and then kill US and South Vietnamese army regulars with surprise attacks and nighttime attacks, with weapons that could realistically kill soldiers, not token arms that would have little effect, such as sticks, stones, and spears against body armor and laser blasters.

On the other hand, while they were greatly outgunned, the NVA had major weapons, artillery, aircraft(including MiG's), large caches of small arms, and substantial aid from China and the Soviet Union. The North had MiG's being flown by North Vietnamese, Chinese, and Soviet pilots, along with strong anti-aircraft batteries. Also, a case could be made that the war was lost more by political decisions and pressure back home, and not due to the enemy force themselves. I'm sure you've heard some speak of Vietnam and say "we won every battle, but lost the war".

Lucas' original idea of Wookiees, somewhat primitive, but sophisticated enough to use weapons and flying spacecraft, would have been a much better analog to the North, in my opinion, and more believable to boot. I think that's why it was his original idea; the whole idea of your first instinct often being the correct one. It would have been a better, more believable fit. If he would have stuck to that, I think I'd be looking back at Jedi more fondly today.

I think the Afghans versus the Soviets from '79-'89 would make a more apt, but not perfect, comparison.

[KS76]

I just finished The Empire Strikes Back, it was like watching it again for the first time, only better! This whole set has been like this for me.
As for the battle of Endor, I think the Ewoks set up lots of effective booby traps for the Imperal troops and their heavy armor. Some Ewoks, along with Chewbacca commandeered an AT-ST and took out the rest of the Imperial armor.

[georgec]

If they CGI more Ewoks into ROTJ, maybe they can also replace the Stormtrooper rifles with walkie talkies .

[NYorker]

In TPM, one of the lines that stuck with me - for wrong reasons - was a character saying, "the death toll is catastrophic!"
We don't see a hint of any of this, and why would a trade federation start gunning down a population...?
Even watching in the cinema, that line was grating.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by NYorker

In TPM, one of the lines that stuck with me - for wrong reasons - was a character saying, "the death toll is catastrophic!"
We don't see a hint of any of this, and why would a trade federation start gunning down a population...?
Even watching in the cinema, that line was grating.

Don't you remember the line from Obiwan, this message is a fake do not reply? It was made in order to have the queen respond or pinpoint her location for Darth Maul, it never was a real message.