Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[hanshotfirst1138]

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

It didn’t. He was just making an example.

Don't scare me like that !!

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Roonan

On the contrary, it's true to his style. Kershner made sure of that since he knew that was the intent. Same with Marquand. The false narrative where Lucas was barely involved in TESB should have died already.

Lucas was a super strong producer on those movies, yes. However he was not the director, and the director is typically the one we assign top creative credit to. It is humorous Lucas cries out for director control, but dismissed Kershner and Marquand as hired help. Anyone who doesn't see that amusing hypocrisy is being a little too Lucas devoted, IMO.

Also no matter how strong a producer he was you can directly compare TESB especially but also RotJ to Lucas' directorial efforts and see clear stylistic differences.

[happydood]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Lucas was a super strong producer on those movies, yes. However he was not the director, and the director is typically the one we assign top creative credit to. It is humorous Lucas cries out for director control, but dismissed Kershner and Marquand as hired help. Anyone who doesn't see that amusing hypocrisy is being a little too Lucas devoted, IMO.

Also no matter how strong a producer he was you can directly compare TESB especially but also RotJ to Lucas' directorial efforts and see clear stylistic differences.

I look at it as a Val Lewton-style situation. Yes, Kershner and Marquand's fingerprints are on Empire and Jedi, but Lucas was the driving force behind the whole enterprise. I don't disagree that Lucas' pleas for director control are hypocritical but people age and change their perspectives on things. It doesn't exonerate him in any way, but, as in all things, it's not a black and white situation. It's also totally laughable to me when people say things like 'Star Wars is great, I just wish George Lucas didn't have anything to do with it." It's like going to a chef who is world-reknowned for his pizza and saying "Do you have anything besides pizza?" There are plenty of other chefs who make other things that can suit a person.

[Geoff D]

Lucas really didn't have a strong hand in the actual day-to-day directing of Empire though. He let Kersh and Kurtz get on with it, much to his chagrin when it went so over-time and over-budget that Lucas was at risk of losing his entire empire (and even the rights to the Star Wars property itself!) because he'd used it as collateral to get the banks to loan him the cash to make his sequel. He was of course heavily involved in the goings-on Stateside e.g. the editing, VFX and so on, but Kersh's filmic DNA is imprinted upon that movie and Lucas couldn't undo it no matter how hard he might've tried. This is perhaps apocryphal but wasn't he rumoured to have said "it didn't need to be this good!" at one point?

Hence Kurtz getting let go by the time Jedi rolled around, Lucas making sure to be on-set as much as possible (despite his recently adopted kid) by heading up the second unit and installing a puppet like Marquand to be the nominal director of the show. The credits might as well say "directed by George Lucas" for all the difference that the Welsh director brought to it, Jedi is Lucas through and through.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

I'd like to think I'd do the same, but my weak ass would buy the SEs in 4K...

Would probably wait for a sale though. #imarebel

Honestly, for as much as I detest - and I do truly detest - several of the Blu-ray changes I could probably live with them if the transfers weren't the creaky-assed Lowry versions with the colour and contrast jacked up to silly levels and frozen grain all over the bloody place. I get that some people like the way that they look, just as some people like the look of, say, the Blu-ray of Scream, but they're so sharpened and over-processed it's a constant distraction to me. Would buy a new remaster in a heartbeat, and I've got the magnificent 4K77 to scratch that OG itch.

[peschi]

I can recommend reading this, it gives a complete picture how the film was made (and fully supports GeofD's message), the day to day directing was done by Kersh, all designwork had to be okay'd by lucas though (and normally that isnt a producer's job).

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by happydood

It's also totally laughable to me when people say things like 'Star Wars is great, I just wish George Lucas didn't have anything to do with it." It's like going to a chef who is world-reknowned for his pizza and saying "Do you have anything besides pizza?" There are plenty of other chefs who make other things that can suit a person.

Lucas was a great idea man and visual designer. Star Wars would not exist without him, agreed. However I don't think he's a very good director. I guess that seems like an insane statement since Star Wars is one of the biggest movies of all time, but all his other work as a director is poor IMO (except maybe American Graffiti, which isn't my thing and I haven't seen in 20 years). I can only assume Star Wars is as good as it is as a film because of a team effort, and it's nowhere near as good as TESB anyway.

I'll now douse myself in flame retardant gel.

[stvn1974]

THX-1138, American Graffiti and Star Wars are classics. Not sure what happened after that. The man created three classics and three turds and then went and ruined two of the classics.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by peschi

I can recommend reading this, it gives a complete picture how the film was made (and fully supports GeofD's message), the day to day directing was done by Kersh, all designwork had to be okay'd by lucas though (and normally that isnt a producer's job).

I have that old red paperback book about the making of Empire but haven't actually read it past the first chapter or so. One of those things I keep meaning to read but never get around to.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

THX-1138, American Graffiti and Star Wars are classics.

For reals, yep. Three American classics.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by peschi

I can recommend reading this, it gives a complete picture how the film was made (and fully supports GeofD's message), the day to day directing was done by Kersh, all designwork had to be okay'd by lucas though (and normally that isnt a producer's job).

Yes, and the ROTJ book isn't shy about letting it be known that Lucas really was running the show on that one. It's where this Tony Daniels anecdote came from IIRC:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I don't. Lucas basically ghost-directed ROTJ, officially (though not credited as such) he was heading up the second unit and so was usually on-set whenever first-unit was shooting. Tony Daniels cryptically remarked that if he had a question he always went to one of the two directors for answers, and although he didn't say who it's pretty obvious he meant Lucas. As soon as Marquand had delivered his contractually-obliged "director's cut" Lucas booted him out, brought in his own editor and that was the end of that.

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Honestly, for as much as I detest - and I do truly detest - several of the Blu-ray changes I could probably live with them if the transfers weren't the creaky-assed Lowry versions with the colour and contrast jacked up to silly levels and frozen grain all over the bloody place. I get that some people like the way that they look, just as some people like the look of, say, the Blu-ray of Scream, but they're so sharpened and over-processed it's a constant distraction to me. Would buy a new remaster in a heartbeat, and I've got the magnificent 4K77 to scratch that OG itch.

Is that not only ANH though, or does it cover all 3 OT films?

[Bobbyjoe766]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

I'd like to think I'd do the same, but my weak ass would buy the SEs in 4K...

Would probably wait for a sale though. #imarebel

I admit it would be tempting if the outtakes (unveiled at the 40th anniversary celebrations) were included.

[Roy_Batty]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

Is that not only ANH though, or does it cover all 3 OT films?

4k77 is for Star Wars, 4K83 is for Jedi and another group is restoring a 4k version of Empire.

[hanshotfirst1138]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

Is that not only ANH though, or does it cover all 3 OT films?

They're working on the other two films from what I understand. And hopefully some kind of restoration of THX 1138 thereafter .

[Riddler95]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It wouldn't mean re-rendering anything. They'd just scan the filmed-out negative of the CG shots in 4K or upscale the digital files directly.

Lowry remastered the trilogy in 4K back in 2012, apparently conformed to "George's latest versions". These remasters have never seen the light of day publicly, but were shown to Gareth Edwards and Grieg Fraser when they were prepping Rogue One.

I remember reading that the 4K Version of Star Wars shown to Gareth Edwards and Grieg Fraser was just a 4K Upscale of the 2011 Special Edition.

[shinobipopcorn]

Well, either way they have HD/4K versions of the original film since they had those great shots of the rebel pilot leaders in Rogue One.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Riddler95

I remember reading that the 4K Version of Star Wars shown to Gareth Edwards and Grieg Fraser was just a 4K Upscale of the 2011 Special Edition.

Nope. It was that version of the film according to Pablo Hidalgo but in a new 4K master. Greig Fraser said this to American Cinematographer, Feb '17 issue:

Part of our research was to look at the 4K scanned versions of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. They look fantastic, but they don’t look how I remember them.

The 4K trilogy remaster is even mentioned in some advertising by Prime Focus:



https://www.primefocustechnologies.c..._Factsheet.pdf

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

Well, either way they have HD/4K versions of the original film since they had those great shots of the rebel pilot leaders in Rogue One.

Those were actually outtakes from the original, not the original itself. But, in any case, Lucasfilm archived EVERYTHING so restoring the originals isn't some mythical concept like Eldorado. With time and money it can happen, but it won't happen for as long as Lucas is breathing.

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

Is that not only ANH though, or does it cover all 3 OT films?

Only ANH as mentioned, but I'm a bit more relaxed when it comes watching the other two. Only a bit more relaxed, mind you.

Empire I can watch whatever the version, but with Jedi I draw the line at the 2011 Blu-ray. I don't mind the 2004 DVD changes so I watch that version, but with 4K83 around the corner then I'll grab that for sure. It's so sad that fans have had to resort to this but Lucas gonna Lucas.

[drush9999]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Those were actually outtakes from the original, not the original itself. But, in any case, Lucasfilm archived EVERYTHING so restoring the originals isn't some mythical concept like Eldorado. With time and money it can happen, but it won't happen for as long as Lucas is breathing.


Only ANH as mentioned, but I'm a bit more relaxed when it comes watching the other two. Only a bit more relaxed, mind you.

Empire I can watch whatever the version, but with Jedi I draw the line at the 2011 Blu-ray. I don't mind the 2004 DVD changes so I watch that version, but with 4K83 around the corner then I'll grab that for sure. It's so sad that fans have had to resort to this but Lucas gonna Lucas.

Yeah but Jedi Rocks is still present