8K discussion thread

[-JKR-]

Aren't they moving too fast from one format to another? Give consumers some time to breathe. People are barely catching up with 4K, and they wanna push 8K? Invest in one format first. Perfect it. Normal households do not buy a new TV every five years.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

I met 8K would be the norm for the high-end market when 8K programming launches in another 5 years. I agree that in 10 years 8K would be more mainstream. Look at what happen to 4K Blu-ray format in 2016, it was the new high-end niche format. 5 years later many more people are buying 4K Blu-ray and streaming 4K content. So when 8K launches around 2026 with programming, it well take another 5 years (10 years like you said) to become mainstream.

Blu-ray.com has always been about discussing the ultra high-end, which some consumers purchase long before the mainstream consumer adopts.

I don't know when we will get 8k media,

but over the last couple of years ATSC 3.0 was added in 32 markets in the US (none in Canada) and is mostly used for consolidation with no real 4K HDR content.

Where I live (Montreal area)

paid satellite does not offer any 4k hardware, cable and fibre have 4k devices but content is limited to a handful of sports channels and nature channels.


wake me up when all new content is available in 4k on all the choices. After that we can start discussing how fast 8k will take over.

PS don't get me wrong I can't wait for the day when it is all 8k. I just don't care on what day a highly limited possibly fake 8k solution will appear.

[sapiendut]

I’d rather get 12-bit 4:2:2 over 8K to be honest.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I don't know when we will get 8k media,

but over the last couple of years ATSC 3.0 was added in 32 markets in the US (none in Canada) and is mostly used for consolidation with no real 4K HDR content.

Where I live (Montreal area)

paid satellite does not offer any 4k hardware, cable and fibre have 4k devices but content is limited to a handful of sports channels and nature channels.


wake me up when all new content is available in 4k on all the choices. After that we can start discussing how fast 8k will take over.

PS don't get me wrong I can't wait for the day when it is all 8k. I just don't care on what day a highly limited possibly fake 8k solution will appear.

Yeah. While the move to HD 16:9 broadcast infrastructure happened very quickly once it did happen (though the US lagged behind Europe and Japan), it's just not happening for 4K and we're almost 10 years into 4K being a thing. There are some limited 4K services in the US and Europe, yes, but as you say the broadcasters seem to have used that extra bandwidth and more efficient compression to cram more HD channels down the pipe instead. (I think I'm right in saying that Sky in the UK barely use their satellite service to broadcast UHD, most of it is piped over the internets. And naturally there are no terrestrial 4K services at all, for while the BBC does do a handful of UHD events it's all delivered over the internets using iPlayer. What a surprise.) They use 4K cameras for stuff like sports but much of the time it's not for outright image acquisition but to use as a 'super zoom' where they can punch in 4x on a shot and still get an HD image from it. And they're only going to do the same thing once the next-next-next-gen codec and 8K cameras come along, the 8K will be used as a 'super zoom' for 4K broadcasts

I do however think that 8K content will be a thing on streaming in a short space of time, but it's the dreams of there being a complete end-to-end 8K consumer ecosystem in just a few years (streaming, broadcast, disc) that are just that: dreams, not reality. Japan will prolly be on 16K by then tho

[unberechenbar]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yeah. While the move to HD 16:9 broadcast infrastructure happened very quickly once it did happen (though the US lagged behind Europe and Japan), it's just not happening for 4K and we're almost 10 years into 4K being a thing. There are some limited 4K services in the US and Europe, yes, but as you say the broadcasters seem to have used that extra bandwidth and more efficient compression to cram more HD channels down the pipe instead. (I think I'm right in saying that Sky in the UK barely use their satellite service to broadcast UHD, most of it is piped over the internets. And naturally there are no terrestrial 4K services at all, for while the BBC does do a handful of UHD events it's all delivered over the internets using iPlayer. What a surprise.) They use 4K cameras for stuff like sports but much of the time it's not for outright image acquisition but to use as a 'super zoom' where they can punch in 4x on a shot and still get an HD image from it. And they're only going to do the same thing once the next-next-next-gen codec and 8K cameras come along, the 8K will be used as a 'super zoom' for 4K broadcasts

I do however think that 8K content will be a thing on streaming in a short space of time, but it's the dreams of there being a complete end-to-end 8K consumer ecosystem in just a few years (streaming, broadcast, disc) that are just that: dreams, not reality. Japan will prolly be on 16K by then tho

Do you think terrestrial 4K will ever be a thing or will it stay like it is right now with most 4K content requiring internet access?

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by unberechenbar

Do you think terrestrial 4K will ever be a thing or will it stay like it is right now with most 4K content requiring internet access?

ATSC 3.0 is a combination of OTA and IP. UHD HDR uses most of the alotted 56 Mbps bandwidth. 1080P HDR OTA uses a lot less. Take that signal, upscale to UHD and send it over the internet. That's how Fox Sports does it.

Pretend you're running a business. Your goal: eyeballs on your content. You can transmit OTA 4K HDR on a single channel . . . or . . . . Transmit 1080P HDR on one channel, 720P on 3 channels and 480P on 3 more channels. Which business model will achieve your goal?

[DDH]

MEGOGO Launches 8K Channel
https://8kassociation.com/industry-i...es-8k-channel/

[Geoff D]

...which is another streamed/digital service. With a bunch of 8K upscaled stuff.

[Lee A Stewart]

Hisense launches its first 8K LCD, a $2400 75-inch Roku TV

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1639036369

[DDH]

The State of Live 8K Video Production

The State of Live 8K Video Production - YouTube

The 8K Association sponsors this informative webinar to discuss the state of 8K live production. Topics to be covered include 8K broadcast standards, coding standards, encoders, decoders and demonstration of live 8K production that have been done to date. The technology and tools to support live 8K production and distribution are here so listen in to hear for yourself and determine if now is the time to consider a demo or special event production.

Our distinguished speaker is Mauricio Alvarez-Mesa, CEO of Spin Digital Video Technologies GmbH

[Staying Salty]

https://www.cengnews.com/tech/amazon...vs-159879.html

Prime Video is the newest member of the 8K Association, a cross-industry organization dedicated to promoting the growing ecosystem of 8K content and devices, as well as an 8K TV specification standard that ensures customers get a minimum set of features and capabilities with every approved 8K television.

Looks like click bate...bla, bla, bla, bla

[puddy77]

Giz asked some experts about seeing the difference between 4k and 8k. They all basically say you need a giant screen, but their answers are interesting: https://gizmodo.com/can-you-really-t...-8k-1848150141

[SeeMoreDigital]

Funny... There were much the same discussions about 2K and 4K

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital

Funny... There were much the same discussions about 2K and 4K

There were, and they're just as valid now as they were then. For all the guff that we get about "fake 4K" transfers I often wonder how many people are watching a big enough display from a close enough viewing distance to be able to actually discern "real 4K". But at least 4K can still be discerned on a reasonable enough size from a reasonable enough viewing distance, whereas 8K as a consumer home entertainment format is diminishing returns exemplified.

[Pagey123]

For some reason, my ISP has, for the last 2 months, bumped my fiber to the home up from 50 Mbps to 1 Gbps, free of charge. Bring on the 8K! JK about the 8K part, but the free speed bump is both real and nice.

[mkozlows]

Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital

Funny... There were much the same discussions about 2K and 4K

Yeah, but 4K/UHD also brought in with it a larger color space, higher bit depth, and the greater dynamic range of HDR. Even if you had a TV small enough that your eyes couldn't outresolve 1080p, you still get lots of obvious, visible wins. 8K gives you... extra resolution, and nothing else. And of course, the extra resolution of going from 1080p to 4K is more noticeable to more people than the extra resolution going from 4K to 8K.

I spent a lot of time being annoyed at the "you don't need full 1080p, 720p is good enough" people back when that was an ongoing delusion; I transferred a good amount of that annoyance over to the "you don't need 4K, 1080p is enough" people; but this time, I'm in the "you don't need 8K, 4K is enough" camp myself.

[Geoff D]

Yep, spot on. 8K as a delivery format/system is not bringing any intrinsic benefits over 4K other than the resolution as everything else that 4K eventually brought with it (colour, range, bit depth) is going to be the same in 8K. Will 8K TVs end up having the snazzier representations of that trifecta of improvements? For sure, as we're already seeing the likes of Sony put their top-tier dimming algos into their 8K sets rather than the 4K ones. But those improvements could be put into 4K sets, they just don't want to do it.

And I've also been criticising the "good enough" crowd for a long, long time, watching as people scoffed at DVD then HD now 4K, but 8K is where I too check out. 4K WCG HDR at 10 or 12 bits is a totally different beast to the previous SD/HD formats, it's been a genuine revelation for me and slapping more pixels on ain't a big deal any more, apart from trend-hunters who can't bear to be without the latest gadgets.

8K as a format is also something that won't be beneficial for the vast majority of filmed content made up until this point in history. I'm sure that newer content filmed on and finished out to 8K will come in due course but as I'm one of these weirdos that also likes Old Movies then 8K has almost zero benefit to that library of content aside from a scattering of large format classics (though even there I'd love to see just how much >4K detail is in Lawrence or My Fair Lady), much like all the advancements to HDMI that people are wanking over. They couldn't matter less to me as they don't affect 4K HDR movie watching in the slightest.

[Lee A Stewart]

8K will be very beneficial to content makers. But different than HD or 4K. It will provide the ability to edit scenes/footage: cropping and reframing. Then down-rezed to 4K for the finished product. 8K RAW down to a 4K DI should provide better looking images than 4K RAW over to a 4K DI.

As a consumer format - I just don't see it. The internet is fragile as it is. Moving up to 32MB per frame will require some serious compression. More than what VVC or VC1 can produce.

Sometimes we lose sight of the fact that 4K content, other than disc, represents less than 5% of the total available content . . . 10 years after the introduction of 4K TVs.

[RalphoR]

Has the porn industry chimed in on 8k yet?

I don't think 8k is going to catch on but am intrigued by the top two new JVC projectors upscaling to 8k. On a 100"+ screen how much better would an 8k upscaled picture be vs. a native 4k one?

[bailey1987]

I think if a 8k disc comes along it won't be too long before its announced as in development 2 years or so.

I wonder if it will still be blu-ray? The BDA did say they had no plans, can't help but wonder what could replace it and what it could be called. I personally think it will be just an extension of the blu-ray format 8K Ultra HD blu-ray. I wonder if the world will ever see another format war