8K discussion thread

[imsounoriginal]

My bad if already posted, just came across this and figured I'd share (but wasn't sure where):

DVD and Blu-ray sales nearly halved over five years, MPAA report says

In its annual Theatrical Home Entertainment Market Environment report, the Motion Picture Association of America described an immensely sharp drop-off of physical media sales over the past five years. According to the data, which was obtained from DEG and IHS Markit, global sales of video disc formats (which in this context means DVD, Blu-ray, and UltraHD Blu-ray) were $25.2 billion in 2014 but only $13.1 in 2018. That's a drop in the ballpark of 50 percent.

Don't expect 8K Blu-rays or other emerging quality-focused formats to turn the tide, either. Market data published by Forbes showed that the aging, low-definition DVD format still accounts for 57.9 percent of physical media sales, and 4K Blu-rays are only 5.3 percent.

[Geoff D]

I wouldn't expect 8K Blu-rays, period. 4K Blu is the last physical media rodeo IMO, though DVD will probably outlive it. And if people wonder why the studios don't just turn off DVD to promote the adoption of other formats, THAT'S why: it still accounts for sales worth billions and billions of dollars, they're not going to dump that until it becomes entirely unviable.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I wouldn't expect 8K Blu-rays, period. 4K Blu is the last physical media rodeo IMO, though DVD will probably outlive it. And if people wonder why the studios don't just turn off DVD to promote the adoption of other formats, THAT'S why: it still accounts for sales worth billions and billions of dollars, they're not going to dump that until it becomes entirely unviable.

Crazy that DVD still generates so much profit. Think about, DV effing D. It's 2019 now. We have UHD, OLED and LCD with Mini and MicroLED "around the corner" and it's DVD where the true profit is.

[Lee A Stewart]

For the year 2018, total DVD sales were 2245.69M while Blu-ray (including UHD-BD) were 1862.99M

[Lee A Stewart]

8K Production Tools Are Here — But Are They Required?

Earlier this year at CES, every major consumer tech manufacturer showed TV displays at 8K resolution — a whopping 16 times more resolution than HD and 4 times more than 4K. At NAB, many leading entertainment tech manufacturers — among them Avid, Blackmagic, FilmLight, Red and Sony — were touting 8K capabilities, though at this stage there's very little 8K content being discussed. That's because there is no business model or distribution infrastructure — 8K over-the-air broadcasting currently isn't technically possible, and streamers such as Netflix are focused on 4K.

Only Japanese public broadcaster NHK is actively producing 8K. It launched its satellite 8K broadcasting service on Dec. 1 and aims to build an audience toward its planned 8K coverage of the 2020 Tokyo Olympics. Speaking with THR during NAB, NHK producer Nagamitsu Endo reported that the broadcaster currently airs 12 hours of 8K content per day, including some live sports, music documentaries and even restored film classics such as My Fair Lady. "Once [the Olympics] is released in 8K, it's going to be hard to go back for sporting events," opined Chris Chinnock, head of the recently formed 8K Association.

In the U.S. and most of the world, 8K use is very limited. According to cameramaker Red, Netflix's Stranger Things season 3 and The Innocents are among a small number of productions shot in 8K, though they are delivered in 4K (the 8K material is archived for potential future use).

"Some people argue that with a huge number of people looking at it on a mobile device, resolution is arbitrary, but it's the opposite. The more you start with, the more you end with," explained Panavision's Cioni, saying that he believes 8K will be adopted — and even envisions a future where Hollywood moves to 16K.

Many other industry tech leaders don't believe the difference will be noticeable for most consumers.However, many Hollywood tech professionals, including Cioni, do agree that high dynamic range (HDR), or the range between the blackest blacks and whitest whites, is evident. At NAB, many felt this was the year that HDR became a reality. The discussion wasn't so much "should we" as much as it was about implementing its capabilities into production.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/be...d-year-1201267

[avs commenter]

I never got why they didn't just mandate that blu ray and DVD be sold together

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Only Japanese public broadcaster NHK is actively producing 8K. It launched its satellite 8K broadcasting service on Dec. 1 and aims to build an audience toward its planned 8K coverage of the 2020 Tokyo Olympics. Speaking with THR during NAB, NHK producer Nagamitsu Endo reported that the broadcaster currently airs 12 hours of 8K content per day, including some live sports, music documentaries and even restored film classics such as My Fair Lady. "Once [the Olympics] is released in 8K, it's going to be hard to go back for sporting events," opined Chris Chinnock, head of the recently formed 8K Association.

In the U.S. and most of the world, 8K use is very limited. According to cameramaker Red, Netflix's Stranger Things season 3 and The Innocents are among a small number of productions shot in 8K, though they are delivered in 4K (the 8K material is archived for potential future use).

Why does 8k association still believe that the Olympics shown in 8k will be a catalyst for acceptance? It’s not a release, it’s a heavily bloated commercialized international series of fixed time point sporting events not rebroadcasted for consumers to enjoy again and again. Film content created by studios is something you can keep accumulating monetary gain in many cases, whereas the 2020 Olympics is not a cash magnet for vested parties. Why would anyone keep trying to persuade consumers on 8k viability based on that?

[LordoftheRings]

Market data published by Forbes showed that the aging, low-definition DVD format still accounts for 57.9 percent of physical media sales, and 4K Blu-rays are only 5.3 percent.

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

For the year 2018, total DVD sales were 2245.69M while Blu-ray (including UHD-BD) were 1862.99M

Blu-ray sales are not doing too bad considering all things.
4K Blu-ray sales are a smaller percentage but still larger than 3D Blu-ray sales

Those figures are they for the United States of America only or are they universal (global world market)?

We need more 4K Blus. We need higher contrast, higher brightness, we need MicroLED, we need bigger bigger sizes and lower lower prices. We need higher resolution...8K, 16K.

We need more TV factories, better jobs, higher pays, better films, better filmmakers, intelligent business leaders in the 8K development and implementation into our own homes with all the benefits that come with it...8K streaming and all, including 8K cameras to make our own 8K movies.

We also need to resurrect 3D, but for good this time. We also need to work with other countries...Japan, China, Russia, Korea, Cuba, Canada, India, Australia, Africa, Europe, ...the world. Everybody loves watching TV, the more "Ks" the more fun we all have.

That'll be the day.

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by DJR662

Crazy that DVD still generates so much profit. Think about, DV effing D. It's 2019 now. We have UHD, OLED and LCD with Mini and MicroLED "around the corner" and it's DVD where the true profit is.

They can still shovel DVDs into supermarkets, drugstores, and other places where movies normally aren't found. As best I can tell, they're basically for old people, penny-pinchers, and the technologically illiterate.

[Geoff D]

Don't underestimate how DVD spread so far and so quickly, it penetrated the market like no other physical format has done before or will ever do and had no direct competition for, what, 10 years? Its sheer ubiquity coupled with the 'good enough' mentality that most people have - DVD's convenience factor is what helped it kill VHS as much as anything - means that it's still big business.

[spider-neil]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Don't underestimate how DVD spread so far and so quickly, it penetrated the market like no other physical format has done before or will ever do and had no direct competition for, what, 10 years? Its sheer ubiquity coupled with the 'good enough' mentality that most people have - DVD's convenience factor is what helped it kill VHS as much as anything - means that it's still big business.

Also the 'good enough' attitude is why streaming has taken off.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by apollo828

They can still shovel DVDs into supermarkets, drugstores, and other places where movies normally aren't found. As best I can tell, they're basically for old people, penny-pinchers, and the technologically illiterate.

DVD is still releasing about 10X the number of titles each year that are released on Blu-ray. In may cases, if you want a movie or TV show on physical media - DVD is it.

Guess you didn't know that when you described DVD buyers.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Blu-ray sales are not doing too bad considering all things.
4K Blu-ray sales are a smaller percentage but still larger than 3D Blu-ray sales

Those figures are they for the United States of America only or are they universal (global world market)?

We need more 4K Blus. We need higher contrast, higher brightness, we need MicroLED, we need bigger bigger sizes and lower lower prices. We need higher resolution...8K, 16K.

We need more TV factories, better jobs, higher pays, better films, better filmmakers, intelligent business leaders in the 8K development and implementation into our own homes with all the benefits that come with it...8K streaming and all, including 8K cameras to make our own 8K movies.

We also need to resurrect 3D, but for good this time. We also need to work with other countries...Japan, China, Russia, Korea, Cuba, Canada, India, Australia, Africa, Europe, ...the world. Everybody loves watching TV, the more "Ks" the more fun we all have.

That'll be the day.

No we don't. 8K and 16K on 55 inch set from 9 feet away is just ridiculous. Optical is disc is just about dead.

"In its annual Theatrical Home Entertainment Market Environment report, the Motion Picture Association of America described an immensely sharp drop-off of physical media sales over the past five years. According to the data, which was obtained from DEG and IHS Markit, global sales of video disc formats (which in this context means DVD, Blu-ray, and UltraHD Blu-ray) were $25.2 billion in 2014 but only $13.1 in 2018. That's a drop in the ballpark of 50 percent.

FURTHER READING
Disney+ launches on November 12 for $6.99/mo, plus new Marvel, Star Wars series
Don't expect 8K Blu-rays or other emerging quality-focused formats to turn the tide, either. Market data published by Forbes showed that the aging, low-definition DVD format still accounts for 57.9 percent of physical media sales, and 4K Blu-rays are only 5.3 percent."


https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019...a-report-says/

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by spider-neil

Also the 'good enough' attitude is why streaming has taken off.

Sir, you don't have unlimited or infinite visual ability, 8K and 16K is for the Cinema. 8K is off no benefit to any of us. 4K is even overkill.

Ultra HD TV: Home Theater Geeks 180 - YouTube

[LordoftheRings]

It's not a question of if we need 6K, 8K, 16K, on our télés (40, 50, 60") and our laptop screens, iPads, tablets, iPhones, Androids, ... it's only a question of we can't escape the progress of our future, regardless of if it is good or bad. It's future economics; make it, sell it and buy it. We don't need to need it, it's there when it is the latest everywhere.

Sony has a 16K 785" MicroLED display, it's not enough for the size, it should be 32K. Front projectors using very large screens can benefit from 8K and HDR10 (+ Dolby vision). We don't have it, but we need it. Or ...

8K cell phones, with 5G.

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

Sir, you don't have unlimited or infinite visual ability, 8K and 16K is for the Cinema. 8K is off no benefit to any of us. 4K is even overkill.

Ultra HD TV: Home Theater Geeks 180 - YouTube

Nah.
If they had better display tech then it would work great at home.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

Nah.
If they had better display tech then it would work great at home.

Better display tech has nothing to do with the limits of human eye sight. 8K and 16K is worthless on TV in our bedrooms and living rooms so to the limits to human sight. Human beings have to evolve with superior optical abilities for 8K and 16K to be useful on 55 inch TV's. Home Theater enthusiast are become like some of them weird audiophiles that they can actually hear 24bit/192KhZ audio in their living rooms.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

It's not a question of if we need 6K, 8K, 16K, on our télés (40, 50, 60") and our laptop screens, iPads, tablets, iPhones, Androids, ... it's only a question of we can't escape the progress of our future, regardless of if it is good or bad. It's future economics; make it, sell it and buy it. We don't need to need it, it's there when it is the latest everywhere.

Sony has a 16K 785" MicroLED display, it's not enough for the size, it should be 32K. Front projectors using very large screens can benefit from 8K and HDR10 (+ Dolby vision). We don't have it, but we need it. Or ...

8K cell phones, with 5G.

I'm currently in the process of getting my Galaxy S8 repaired do to screen burn-in. I need the existing technology to improve, I don't need a 8K resolution of 6 inch screen.

Now 5G is a different thing, that might measurably useful. As for TV, rather than useless 8K, for example, how future advancement in picture quality, color accuracy, shadow detail and peak brightness.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

Now 5G is a different thing, that might measurably useful. As for TV, rather than useless 8K, for example, how future advancement in picture quality, color accuracy, shadow detail and peak brightness.

I am less inclined to believe any 5G sales pitch then 8K usefulness. Why because wireless providers are all painting themselves into a dead end with negligible real world speed gains versus the lost of distance coverage.

Now one can compare photography techniques with various cameras and see the human eye can readily discern the absence of clarity on smaller cameras vs much larger sensor based cameras. Simply discussing resolution totally omits the quality of the source, and that is far more important when discussing what your eyes can perceive.

4K TV's/content still shows a lack of clarity that your eye perceives at various distances. Until I see TV content that resembles what I see naturally we are not at the ultimate presentation perspective yet.

[nick4Knight]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

The more you start with, the more you end with," explained Panavision's Cioni, saying that he believes 8K will be adopted — and even envisions a future where Hollywood moves to 16K.

Two different conversations at once being conflated...

I don't doubt that "shooting" technologies, like how many K's the camera has; and display technologies (focused on upscaling) will keep expanding but the bare facts of the matter are unless there is a seismic shift in storage and compute infrastructure vs. current cost architecture, Hollywood will not go beyond 4K DI's. The big reason is CGI. The post-houses are still majority 2K, and there is no need to render higher for commercial theatre display, much less home delivery.

So, again, have all the K's archives on the shooting side of things you want. Have all the pixels in the world to upscale. Have at it! But the (Hollywood at least) content will be coming at 4K for at least 10 years.