8K discussion thread

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

Yeah but what utility is 8K going to have for film enthusiasts outside of upscaling when getting an 80" + TV?

Upscaling everything to 8K is good enough for me (film enthusiast).
...And also for people shooting their homemade (family and countryside) videos with 6K and 8K cameras.
...And for people viewing 8K YouTube videos, and with 8K camera drones.
...And 8K gamers, 8K screen computers, 8K Amoled displays (iPhones & Andoids), laptops, tablets, ...
...And, and, and ...

...All film enthusiasts.

Next year we'like see more and more 8K TVs.
By 2024 there will ne more UHD 8K TVs in video stores (online also) than regular standard 4K TVs...if not before.

Go to a video store in your neighborhood and try to purchase a 720p or 1080p TV.
Better check with Salvation Army stores, Goodwill stores, ...for second-hand ones.
Wal-Mart might still accommodate you (1080p) but hurry up.

There's no escape with 8K technology; it's here now and to grow up exponentially as months go by.
We don't need China, we don't need Russia, we don't need Korea, we're working all together with Japan, Europa, America, Australia, ...all eight continents (Mozambique/Madagascar/Alaska/Kathmandu). ...And Kanada.

[LordoftheRings]

And speaking of drones equipped with 6 and 8K cameras ...
▪ https://dronelife.com/2019/11/27/doe...eally-need-8k/

Remember this too; some of the best 6K and 8K footage comes from drones equipped with 6K and 8k video cameras. ...And in all venues of cinematography/hires photography, ...documentaries, films, archives, wildlife, sports, our planet, our people, in every corner of the globe, even in space.

[ray0414]

8K TV sales had a 3rd quarter nose five of 50%.


https://www.4kfilme.de/verkaufszahle...n-quartal-ein/

[LordoftheRings]

We're not even in 2020 yet...just wait six months in through 2020 and 8K is going to shape up nicely ...
▪ https://www.tvtechnology.com/opinion...option-pattern

2019 is only an aperitif (8K talk), and LG came up so tough on 8K Samsung TVs (good for them, good for us) that it's going to shake/shape up Samsung real good and kickstart them to get their sh!t together, for the customer's benefit, us the next 8K TV buyers.

Samsung has already cut the price of their 8K teles dramatically. The next batch better be the real 8K deal if they want to have a market share competitive with LG, Sony and Sharp...the three other main 8K players today. Next year everyone else is going to make 8K displays.

Yes the third quarter performed poorly because LG is taking a stand against Samsung, which is very very good. Samsung in order to follow the 8K new standards needed that good shakeup (beating on their butt).

• https://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/n/Global-...-Third-Quarter

"Still, IHS Markit stands by its prediction that 8K TVs will really start to take off from 2020, forecasting 633,700 units to be shipped that year."

2023, 2024, ... // 2025 we'll see 50% of all TVs in stores being 8K ones.
And they'll take over 4K TVs, just like 4K TVs took over 1080p TVs in less than four years.

[Leshita]

Excited for 8k, I am mostly skipping 4k because I feel 8k will be the real final deal (maybe). Also, 8 is a lucky number in Chinese and I assume 8k will see huge adoption from the middle class in China so there will be a market.

By the way, will AI / algorithms eventually be able to upscale without quality loss? I know nothing of the tech, but just curious.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Leshita

Excited for 8k, I am mostly skipping 4k because I feel 8k will be the real final deal (maybe). Also, 8 is a lucky number in Chinese and I assume 8k will see huge adoption from the middle class in China so there will be a market.

By the way, will AI / algorithms eventually be able to upscale without quality loss? I know nothing of the tech, but just curious.

But the source material will be 2k or 4k. You still need to feed the 8k displays 4k discs for the best PQ.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Leshita

By the way, will AI / algorithms eventually be able to upscale without quality loss? I know nothing of the tech, but just curious.

See this good article on this topic - Here's the secret behind 8K AI upscaling technology - TechRadar

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

See this good article on this topic - Here's the secret behind 8K AI upscaling technology - TechRadar

"good article" in so much as TVs have been doing this sort of 'database' processing for years already, and they're implying that current upscaling is no better than a cave painting, sure. Reads like pure PR waffle to me.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

"good article" in so much as TVs have been doing this sort of 'database' processing for years already, and they're implying that current upscaling is no better than a cave painting, sure. Reads like pure PR waffle to me.

Whatever method you fill in the dots on a 8K screen it's still missing real information that you could only get from a true 8K source.

I know Robert likes to point out what a good job AI processing does to improve the less then 8K upscaled to 8k on such display. But aside from it looking better is the accuracy really there or is it just another version to Darbee where it been sharpened without added noise artifacts?

I have yet to see a actual study on how Samsung, LG, Sony fare with comparing the same source in 8K vs a lower resolution either 2K or 4K using AI video processing.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

"good article" in so much as TVs have been doing this sort of 'database' processing for years already, and they're implying that current upscaling is no better than a cave painting, sure. Reads like pure PR waffle to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7eY...ature=youtu.be

[JohnAV]

^ I think a 8K images of people wearing furs would be great to split hairs on whats the best AI upscaling.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Whatever method you fill in the dots on a 8K screen it's still missing real information that you could only get from a true 8K source.

Right, but if we're not rushing out to buy an 8K TV then the issue of 8K upscaling having to be so good in lieu of having actual 8K narrative content doesn't really matter.

I know Robert likes to point out what a good job AI processing does to improve the less then 8K upscaled to 8k on such display. But aside from it looking better is the accuracy really there or is it just another version to Darbee where it been sharpened without added noise artifacts?

I have yet to see a actual study on how Samsung, LG, Sony fare with comparing the same source in 8K vs a lower resolution either 2K or 4K using AI video processing.

Oh, I totally agree. I'm not surprised that people go gaga for Samsung's 8K upscaling in the same way that they prefer Samsung's 4K upscaling, it's often juicing the content but as long as it 'pops' then who cares about accuracy?

[RalphoR]

Has anyone actually witnessed what a 4k uhd disc looks like on a Samsung, Sony, LG, or JVC 8K upscaling video hardware piece and compared it to "just" a 4k device? Curious to know how much better, if at all, it looks.

[Geoff D]

I'd love to see some of this AI voodoo installed in a 4K TV and have the concurrent 8K device of the same screen size parked next to it and then see what's what when it comes to upscaling an HD source.

[Fendergopher]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'd love to see some of this AI voodoo installed in a 4K TV and have the concurrent 8K device of the same screen size parked next to it and then see what's what when it comes to upscaling an HD source.

Didn't Sony claim their upscaling tech was designed with 8K in mind to begin with? I guess comparing a current Sony 4K TV with the ZG9 might give you a decent indication of what the differences are. Unless they've tweaked the upscaling more specifically for the ZG9 itself.

[Robert Zohn]

We've discussed this several times on this thread. Since early September we've been watching and evaluating the only three 8K TVs, LG's 88" 8K OLED, the Z9P; Sony's 85" 8K Z9G; and Samsung's 82: Q900R all lined up next to each-other. On the same wall we have Samsung's Q90, Sony's A9G and X950G and LG's E9 and C9.

I have repeatedly reported that the up-converting on all of the 8K TVs is superior to the best 4K TVs and I've compared my cell phone pics, DIRECTV SDR, streaming and 4K BDs.

I have spoken to several LG and Sony engineers on what they have done to improve the up-conversion image performance. LG developed a second processor on the a9 Gen 2 processor called the a9 Gen 2 PRO and the job of the second processor with it's memory is strictly dedicated to it's 8K up-conversion.

Other than all of the R&D, additional hardware and software that goes into the 8K TVs they have the best panels and other display technology advancements that are not used in any 4K TV.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Other than all of the R&D, additional hardware and software that goes into the 8K TVs they have the best panels and other display technology advancements that are not used in any 4K TV.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but I don't think that is entirely correct as far as the Z9G goes, as it has been well documented that for whatever reason (I personally think it's because of the X-wide view tech) Sony decided not to use the Z9D's per LED level based BMD for the Z9G.

[Robert Zohn]

Correct. The 2019 8K Z9G is only the second TV in Sony's history to use the well respected "Black Light Master Drive", but it does not dim each LED individually like the Z9D did.

The Z9G's black light local dimming does perform very well, but I also wish they employed the local dimming down to the individual LED and did not use the X-Wide Viewing technology. However, the 4,000 Nit peak luminance with no HDR tone mapping needed makes HDR content look very natural and different than any other TV can produce.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Correct. The 2019 8K Z9G is only the second TV in Sony's history to use the well respected "Black Light Master Drive", but it does not dim each LED individually like the Z9D did.

The Z9G's black light local dimming does perform very well, but I also wish they employed the local dimming down to the individual LED and did not use the X-Wide Viewing technology. However, the 4,000 Nit peak luminance with no HDR tone mapping needed makes HDR content look very natural and different than any other TV can produce.

How is the Dolby vision performance compared to other Sony models? Is the image also significantly darker?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Correct. The 2019 8K Z9G is only the second TV in Sony's history to use the well respected "Black Light Master Drive", but it does not dim each LED individually like the Z9D did.

The Z9G's black light local dimming does perform very well, but I also wish they employed the local dimming down to the individual LED and did not use the X-Wide Viewing technology. However, the 4,000 Nit peak luminance with no HDR tone mapping needed makes HDR content look very natural and different than any other TV can produce.

Black Light Master Drive or Backlight Master Drive? I wouldn't wanna use a TV with a Black Light Master Drive in my bedroom, lemme tell ya.

Get rid of the X-wide or have it so that it can be turned on or off (did I imagine seeing that sort of feature on another brand of TV recently?) and employ the proper zone-level BMD and then I'd start to seriously consider one of the Sony 8K's. Well, once it costs three-quarters of what it does now because I ain't paying 13 grand for a TV.