HDR Discussion Thread

[IntelliVolume]

Here's something hopefully you HDR guys can help me with...

As I stated, for the time being, I am going to be watching regular Blu-rays on my new 4K set, so should the HDR settings in the TV be switched OFF until I get a UHD player, or does the HDR mapping apply to Blu-ray and DVD, as well?

[LordoftheRings]

Upscale everything to your TV's highest resolution...4K.
Enable HDR...there is 4K HDR content you can stream.

■ https://www.popsci.com/4k-uhd-tv-setup-guide-steps
□ https://www.popsci.com/4k-uhd-tv-set...e-steps#page-5

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Upscale everything to your TV's highest resolution...4K.

Isn't my TV going to do that AUTOMATICALLY when being fed a 1080p signal?

Enable HDR...there is 4K HDR content you can stream.

■ https://www.popsci.com/4k-uhd-tv-setup-guide-steps
□ https://www.popsci.com/4k-uhd-tv-set...e-steps#page-5

Not going to stream. If so, and I'm just playing Blu-ray content from my Oppo BDP-83 for the near future, should HDR still be engaged?

[LordoftheRings]

HDR is content embedded; the rest don't matter. Yes your TV will automatically engaged HDR if the content has it, leave it on. And if you play non-HDR content your TV will automatically play non-HDR, leave it on.

Yes, leave HDR on...enabled.

[LordoftheRings]

Comes next Black Friday you could experiment on the cheap; buy a HDR 4K Blu-ray player for only $99, or less. ...Brand new with a full year warranty. Some 4K BR titles you can get for only $9.99 ... good ones too.

Live life to the max.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4wo...ature=youtu.be

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

[Show spoiler]

I notice a lot of rambunctious supporters there ^ for Poland draining the drinkin supply.
Believe me, those Poles party hearty and work hard, e.g. doing HDR tests with new RED cameras very recently –

[Show spoiler]

Wabo, allow me to try to get you at least a wee bit interested in the tournament. You like seeing, not only a team desperately fighting for its sustained existence, but also millions of people in a powerhouse soccer country hanging onto a cliff by their fingernails and experience what happens? Watch/record Argentina play Nigeria on Tuesday, 11:00 A.M. (PST)

Explanation as to the scenario(s) - https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/wor...nockout-stage/

P.S.
That dang World Cup is causing an international beer crisis…. https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news...-1262612035879

I dunno, PM. Any "sport" where the clock counts up is an unholy sign of the

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Yup, even retrospectively posting Qualia 006 and 005 summary executive meeting notes, word for word - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ia#post9740242

The idea of the display technology may seem rather matter-of-fact these days, but I’ll remind folks that the 005 was the first commercially available consumer display to use LED backlighting, the significance of which few hobbyists appreciated back then.

Your uncanny ability to remember what has been posted years ago is truly amazing. If the soccer hooligans hadn't drank all the beer I'd toast you right now.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

thank Guan-Ming Su and other inventors - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...u#post15199874

who continue to develop better processes for various other aspects of the HDR ecosystem too - https://www2.securecms.com/PCS2018/P...?PaperNum=1041

As to refined image quality, unfortunately, apparently Gen Z doesn’t view it as much of a priority as you old timers do:
“Considering the range of viewing platforms teenagers gravitate toward, do you think high dynamic range (HDR) will play into viewing habits for teenagers, or is it not even on their radar?”…….https://www.creativecow.net/intersti..._habits/1&id=0

Note to Waboman: at least Helen has her #1 priority in order

Helen! That saucy minx still owes me $20. Lol. I have no idea who Helen is.

[Geoff D]

I think kids today care more about MDMA than they do HDR.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I hope that hyperlinked post in paragraph 1 ^ with regards to specifically describing one real world value of how HDR is superior (mitigating blown out highlights) to SDR didn’t upset my friend Steed, as I didn’t realize until today while googling opening matches for next season’s Premier League that SunderlandFC was relegated, yet again (to League One).

Sorry my friend , man, you folks must be really suffering up there in N.E.

It’s being horrific but we now have new dynamic owners and a new manager. We have sold over 20,000 season tickets so far (for Div 3 effectively ) so we will get out of this mess and get back in the Premier league eventually.

Not to worry mate, I’m over it now. Looking forward to next season and I have my season ticket ordered.

[Alister_M]

I've found the HDR-10 setting on my TV makes the blacks too dark and brings any grain or digital noise too much to the foreground when viewing non-HDR content. I've set it to HLG for my BD player input, which does a good job of highlighting brighter areas without those aforementioned issues.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by Alister_M

I've found the HDR-10 setting on my TV makes the blacks too dark and brings any grain or digital noise too much to the foreground when viewing non-HDR content. I've set it to HLG for my BD player input, which does a good job of highlighting brighter areas without those aforementioned issues.

Thanks Alister; what kind of display do you have?

Are you suggesting I should leave HDR OFF if I'm just going to be watching non-HDR content from my older BD player?

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I think kids today care more about MDMA than they do HDR.

What's MDMA, hallucinatory drug...Methylenedioxymethamphetamine?
HDR is pretty much the same with non-HDR content. I'd leave it on @ all time.
And if you start to have too many visions just turn it off...detox.

It's good to experiment on our own; it's more effective, more impactful, more determinant about our future and the settings and plans we make.

HDR doze does it.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Waboman

I dunno, PM. Any "sport" where the clock counts up is an unholy sign of the

Thinking about it…^ that is funny.
Enjoy the attention though, as they’re all making their best pitch for us (the U.S.A.) to root for them….

Jump On The Wagen - YouTube

Jump On The Wagen 2 - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Waboman

Your uncanny ability to remember what has been posted years ago is truly amazing.

Well, the owners made the whole experience special, even more so than the TVs themselves, as they were the core.

Meaning, the Qualia ownership showed a great deal of camaraderie amongst its members, fundamentally because it was just understood that anyone willing to fork out that much $$$$$ for a TV at the time naturally had to have been very successful in their chosen careers, whatever they might be, and/or extremely serious videophiles, so there was a great deal of respect for each other and it’s not that difficult for me to remember very Insider-ish postings I made about the production and delivery of those Sony displays garnered from internal conference calls, be it prospectively or retrospectively.

I remember we had an owner who died prematurely of a rather incurable type of cancer and all of us were quite upset about it for weeks. To this day, whenever I go scuba diving I think of our passed Qualian.

And I actually shared meals and good conversation with a couple owners and their wives/friends on both the east and west coasts back then....so strong was the fellowship.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Also note that Vincent stresses he (at the time) hadn't been able to do a comparison between HDR10 and dolby vision with high-nit-capable displays. (The thinking being that low-nit displays will always benefit more from the flexible tonemapping afforded by dynamic metadata than high-nit displays.)

Six months later, in April of this year, he was finally able to do the first such comparison:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzrw...ature=youtu.be

Without critiquing his materials and methodology too much, aways back, Vincent brought up the issue that “the HDR presentation in current Ultra HD Blu-ray films is not bright enough for viewing under moderate/strong ambient lighting” (see summary -
https://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-vs-201604104279.htm).

Knowing how intense competition exists between consumer electronics manufacturers and their affinity to marketing larger and larger numbers (1080p -> 4K -> 8K, 500 nits -> 1000 nits -> 1500 nits, millions to billions of colors,etc.) to differentiate their product from the other manufacturers, some may wonder what the future may bring.

I’d expect higher luminance TVs in the future....how much, how soon….depends on production costs (easier with LCDs, much more difficult with OLEDs), so what could be the outcome of that wrt movies? Current HDR (PQ-based) grading practice for movies is to do an APL similar to that of SDR and then do the speculars in the thousands, so with that, yes, you kind of end up losing that contrasty HDR specular effect when viewing in a bright living room.

Higher luminance consumer TVs could enable/encourage movies be graded at a much higher APL than SDR movies and then subsequently also boost the speculars higher in the thousands. What this means is that potentially with higher luminance TVs if the industry decided to take this path is that you could watch your HDR UHD Blu-ray movies in “moderate/strong ambient lighting” with no problem at all in maintaining the HDR effect. For folks worrying about this (brighter and brighter TVs with movie watching, how far will they go?, this sounds crazy), not to worry, as colorists can’t shift everything up too high as the higher you go with PQ, you run out of code values quickly

See red line –



which degenerates the quality of detailed images.

[LordoftheRings]

Today's total (right now) number views: 1,217,593

Wow!

[alexanderg823]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Without critiquing his materials and methodology too much, aways back, Vincent brought up the issue that “the HDR presentation in current Ultra HD Blu-ray films is not bright enough for viewing under moderate/strong ambient lighting” (see summary -
https://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-vs-201604104279.htm).

Knowing how intense competition exists between consumer electronics manufacturers and their affinity to marketing larger and larger numbers (1080p -> 4K -> 8K, 500 nits -> 1000 nits -> 1500 nits, millions to billions of colors,etc.) to differentiate their product from the other manufacturers, some may wonder what the future may bring.

I’d expect higher luminance TVs in the future....how much, how soon….depends on production costs (easier with LCDs, much more difficult with OLEDs), so what could be the outcome of that wrt movies? Current HDR (PQ-based) grading practice for movies is to do an APL similar to that of SDR and then do the speculars in the thousands, so with that, yes, you kind of end up losing that contrasty HDR specular effect when viewing in a bright living room.

Higher luminance consumer TVs could enable/encourage movies be graded at a much higher APL than SDR movies and then subsequently also boost the speculars higher in the thousands. What this means is that potentially with higher luminance TVs if the industry decided to take this path is that you could watch your HDR UHD Blu-ray movies in “moderate/strong ambient lighting” with no problem at all in maintaining the HDR effect. For folks worrying about this (brighter and brighter TVs with movie watching, how far will they go?, this sounds crazy), not to worry, as colorists can’t shift everything up too high as the higher you go with PQ, you run out of code values quickly

See red line –



which degenerates the quality of detailed images.

Eh, i'd rather they grade in the dark as is and let the TVs decide whether to be brighter to account for daylight. My q9FN does this quite well for 1,000 nit content IMO.

[Alister_M]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Thanks Alister; what kind of display do you have?

Are you suggesting I should leave HDR OFF if I'm just going to be watching non-HDR content from my older BD player?

Sony Bravia LED-LCD. Nothing particularly fancy.

Regular BDs do look very good upscaled to 4K, just the colors aren't as intense. Adding HDR with the TV looks nothing like the HDR on a UHD disc though. If you have the HLG option in your HDR settings, I'd recommend using that as it looks far more natural. It's an HDR format developed for TV broadcasts, so it works much better "on the fly" than forcing HDR10 onto a 1080p upscale. That setting just makes everything look like Hostel Part II It also wipes out a lot of fine detail in the darker areas of the image - for example, I tested Deadpool's BD with HDR10 and in the scene where he's got Francis pinned to the concrete barrier with a sword through his shoulder, the image was so dark that the point of the sword sticking out of the other side was completely obscured.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by Alister_M

Sony Bravia LED-LCD. Nothing particularly fancy.

Regular BDs do look very good upscaled to 4K, just the colors aren't as intense. Adding HDR with the TV looks nothing like the HDR on a UHD disc though. If you have the HLG option in your HDR settings, I'd recommend using that as it looks far more natural. It's an HDR format developed for TV broadcasts, so it works much better "on the fly" than forcing HDR10 onto a 1080p upscale. That setting just makes everything look like Hostel Part II It also wipes out a lot of fine detail in the darker areas of the image - for example, I tested Deadpool's BD with HDR10 and in the scene where he's got Francis pinned to the concrete barrier with a sword through his shoulder, the image was so dark that the point of the sword sticking out of the other side was completely obscured.

Thank you.

Unfortunately, I have to wait nearly a month for our cabinet maker to adjust our entertainment center to make the 65" fit because he's backed up with projects.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Today's total (right now) number views: 1,217,593

Wow!

Bob,

What are you talking about/referring to?

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Bob,

What are you talking about/referring to?

Replies/views for this HDR thread.