Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Tok

Well some have more disposable income than others. I have a good education, but I am currently out of work and also have three young children to support. My days of supporting cutting edge video and audio technology is going to have to take a break. And the fact is there are a hell of lot families like mine in this economy.

If people want it and are willing to pay then fine, but how many physical formats can the market support. Blu is gaining on DVD, but it is still not the defacto standard for movies on disc. And now they think the market will support UHD discs. That's just crazy.

It took BD many years to get established as a viable format considering the format war and the maturation of the downloading/streaming business. It is going to be a long haul for a UHD format to grow anywhere even near BD's current level.

UHD discs are at best going to become this generations laserdisc and that might be the best thing for the format. Low volume and high prices means a niche market.

So I caution you if you think that are going to be enough consumers in your corner that will pay high prices for many titles. I can only think of handful of titles where a higher sticker price would not influence a purchasing decision.

I am sorry to hear about your bad luck, but maybe someone a few blocks from you was jobless when BD came out and now he has a good job? maybe by the time 4K BD comes out you will have found a new job and you won't be as hard pressed economically (since let's face it, there is no 4K BD standard yet). Like you pointed out the cutting edge (for any and all technologies) is not for every one and most people are not the type to be there. That is why was it BD or even DVD before it not everyone rushed out and bought new tech and why (like you said) it takes years for the new to replace the old.

The only good thing (assuming we do get 4K BD and not a new format) is that it will be reasonably priced since the tech is old. When I bought my Samsung player in 2006 it was over 1000$ when I bought my 3D player it was just a bit more than the 2D players. The manufacturer did not need to make a whole new player, he did not need to have a new drive built on the new expensive laser all he did was take the old 2D player and replace the chip with one that cold handle 3D, all the other parts were already at commodity pricing.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

But I think the people willing to pay that premium now will be fewer this time around than it was during the Laserdisc days, which was already a very, very niche format during it's time.

can people be any more irrational, do you honestly think that a 4K BD will be 70$ (or what ever you want to use for LD premium)? The 4K disks will be replicated on BD replication lines, I can imagine the studio charging 5$ more for the 4k/3D/2D BD just because it is a more "luxury" item.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

You always seem to be ahead of the curve...

I think 4K displays (flat panels and/or front projectors) in the home is already a done deal as that door has been permanently opened, so to speak. The only question is how long? it will take for 4K to become established as the standardized platform of the television industry. Many industry watchers think that due to *the Chinese factor* of pumping out economically priced displays, it will take less time than it did for HD TV, especially with the help of modern innovative marketing…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...de#post8091406

The big struggle/challenge moving forward is to make 4K even better. For instance, 8 bit depth is a relic of the capabilities of phosphorous based TVs. Industry leaders should push for true 10 bit displays with 10 bit content, for which viewers will notice increased picture quality at even “normal viewing distances”.

Plus, we’re far from “diminishing returns” as another member asserted. Current typical consumer TVs (LDR displays) show nowhere near the dynamic range of the capability of the human visual system (HVS). The future step (after adding HFR, increased bit depth and better colorimetry) to 4K, at least as far as video and not audio is concerned, should be to supplement 4K and 8K with HDR –





which would be a watershed moment. In regards to 4K Blu-ray, I would think that any unbiased avid movie collector would welcome at least the availability of 4K Blu-rays (meaning physical media as opposed to downloads or streaming) but of course we have people here with personal financial prejudices.

Personal financial constraints are understandable due to a combination of individualistic wallet sizes and values, but I think it’s unfair to project those restrictions upon what the home theater society-at-large “needs”.

Originally Posted by Tok

...Sure I want technology to march forward but we don't need UHD yet.

Steed is correct. Choice is good. As far as the philosophy of ‘niche’ hobby or object ownership goes, so what?, it’s no skin off non-owners’ backs.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

The future step (after adding HFR, increased bit depth and better colorimetry) to 4K, at least as far as video and not audio is concerned, should be to...

P.S.
Of course, along with filling in the current 4K transmission gap - http://vimeo.com/75195585.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Steed is correct. Choice is good. As far as the philosophy of ‘niche’ hobby or object ownership goes, so what?, it’s no skin off non-owners’ backs.

I could not agree more. If people wanna count themselves out of 4K (for whatever reasons) that's fair enough, but the dissenters always seem to have this doom-laden tone, e.g. "it won't survive, the market's not big enough, no-one will upgrade again" etc etc.

And yet, there have been niche formats & systems for as long as home video has existed, some of which have pootled along quite happily for years alongside the more mainstream media types. If 4K BD hangs around for half as long as Laserdisc - and became as collector-oriented as that format was - I'd be well pleased.

[Tok]

But we are so far beyond what businesses will tolerate today compared to the home video market of the late 80s and early 90s.

Look at what happened to SACD and DVD-A. They had a small but vocal support group over the years but neither format is produced today on major labels.

I am happy the industry is going forward with an actual UHD disc since so many streaming/download proponents claimed BD would be the last format. I just don't see the support coming at the level people wanted HD disc formats. DVD looked atrocious on large screens. BD looks pretty darn good even on large screen systems. UHD is going to have to look significantly better at normal viewing distances to sway the general public.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Tok

But we are so far beyond what businesses will tolerate today compared to the home video market of the late 80s and early 90s.

Look at what happened to SACD and DVD-A. They had a small but vocal support group over the years but neither format is produced today on major labels.

I am happy the industry is going forward with an actual UHD disc since so many streaming/download proponents claimed BD would be the last format. I just don't see the support coming at the level people wanted HD disc formats. DVD looked atrocious on large screens. BD looks pretty darn good even on large screen systems. UHD is going to have to look significantly better at normal viewing distances to sway the general public.

I don't care about the general public.

[Tok]

Neither do I, but business is not going to chase a niche market. Like I said the UHD format proponents are deluded if they think UHD is going to be anything more than a low volume high priced product for the foreseeable future.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Tok

But we are so far beyond what businesses will tolerate today compared to the home video market of the late 80s and early 90s.

Look at what happened to SACD and DVD-A. They had a small but vocal support group over the years but neither format is produced today on major labels.

I am happy the industry is going forward with an actual UHD disc since so many streaming/download proponents claimed BD would be the last format. I just don't see the support coming at the level people wanted HD disc formats. DVD looked atrocious on large screens. BD looks pretty darn good even on large screen systems. UHD is going to have to look significantly better at normal viewing distances to sway the general public.

SACD/DVD-A was just an odd exception. They ended up starting a war with each other and it kept too many people away (sidelined waiting to see who would win) and neither had enough steam left.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Tok

Neither do I, but business is not going to chase a niche market. Like I said the UHD format proponents are deluded if they think UHD is going to be anything more than a low volume high priced product for the foreseeable future.

why? There are always niche markets. Did LD fold to VHS? Are you saying there is no luxury sports car market and Lamborghinis and Ferrari have shut down? Did apple shut down because almost no one bought macs? ....... Honestly in most markets all the players are niche. Even today you can buy records and records went from king to niche several decades ago.

Any niche market can exist as long as you have a dedicated following that is willing to spend the $ because they think the niche product is better than the alternatives.

Note: I am not agreeing that 4k will be niche, way too soon to say considering there is not even a 4k physical media yet. Just pointing out the obvious that it is nuts to assume even if it will always be classified as niche that it can't survive.

[thebluemax]

Blu Ray is it for me, no more upgrades. BD is superb can't imagine my eyes perceiving anything better. In fact, I like BD quality better than going to the movies. I have gone from Beta, VHS, Laser, RCA,DVD, and finally BD and that is my final format.

[Wendell R. Breland]

4K is like a food you have never tasted, you gotta taste before you decide if you like something. You at least owe it to your self to checkout 4K before making any decisions.

I have seen 4K, I want 4K, I will have to wait to see the street price on the Sony projector. After that info is obtained the price may be more than I am willing to spend but that will not change my view on 4K.

[Race Bannon]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

4K is like a food you have never tasted, you gotta taste before you decide if you like something. You at least owe it to your self to checkout 4K before making any decisions.

I have seen 4K, I want 4K, I will have to wait to see the street price on the Sony projector. After that info is obtained the price may be more than I am willing to spend but that will not change my view on 4K.

I might upgrade the equipment, in order to buy a more HD format going forward, but I will not upgrade my collection.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

can people be any more irrational, do you honestly think that a 4K BD will be 70$ (or what ever you want to use for LD premium)? The 4K disks will be replicated on BD replication lines, I can imagine the studio charging 5$ more for the 4k/3D/2D BD just because it is a more "luxury" item.

Someone else suggesting the possibility of "Laserdisc level pricing." I was just springboarding off of that hypathetical scenario with my points.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by thebluemax

Blu Ray is it for me, no more upgrades. BD is superb can't imagine my eyes perceiving anything better. In fact, I like BD quality better than going to the movies. I have gone from Beta, VHS, Laser, RCA,DVD, and finally BD and that is my final format.

If you have a projector, you are going to want 4k. Rhubarb and custard.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

If you have a projector, you are going to want 4k. Rhubarb and custard.

I have a projector & don't think I will need 4k but that is just my personal opinion Too. More then happy with the quality I get with what I have.

The Image speaks for itself

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

I have a projector & don't think I will need 4k but that is just my personal opinion Too. More then happy with the quality I get with what I have.

The Image speaks for itself

So you don't fancy 4k then? Great shots by the way.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Someone else suggesting the possibility of "Laserdisc level pricing." I was just springboarding off of that hypathetical scenario with my points.

he did not really do so. he said "My point being, there are plenty of people out there willing to pay a premium for a product that appeals to them. " he also said later in a different paragraph "I've paid far more for certain Laserdisc and DVHS titles than I have for any DVD or Blu-ray release, so even if BD 4K releases come in at 50 simoleans each I'll eat 'em up and beg for more"

He never said that it will be LD pricing and 50+ like you mentioned but only how high he would be willing to go.

This just brought back memories of 2005-2006 when there were people on forums talking about BDs being 70$+ because it suited their need that it will be doomed. In the end 4K BD is just BD (i.e. same material made on the same replication line) and there is a reason that sometimes you buy a film and there are a half/dozen disks in it (3D BD, 2D BD, Extended cut BD, DVD, DC, extras) or that you buy one film (new releae) and it is more than 20$ and buy a different film just beside it in the garbadge bin for 5$. Proicing on films is not based on materials, the disks themselves are next to nothing so adding one more 4K BD does not add much, but what people will pay for it.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Race Bannon

I might upgrade the equipment, in order to buy a more HD format going forward, but I will not upgrade my collection.

Understood. Have replaced DVD with Blu-ray for most titles that were available. I will be VERY selective in catalog Blu-ray → 4K Blu-ray replacements. May replace a few titles, i.e. Oblivion, if they were native 4K and remained that way to the 4K Blu-ray release.

[Geoff D]

Oblivion was finished at 2K, so scratch that one off your 4K wish list.