Film prints in theaters

[Flatnate]

Hey everyone, so I read an article republished in the Saint Paul Pioneer Press last night and it had me thinking. http://www.twincities.com/minnesota/...e-saved-windom . In a nutshell a non profit was formed to save a small town movie theater but they believed they would have till 2015 to save money for a DCI compliant digital projector, however they recently received news that they would no longer be able to acquire prints as of late March/April 2013. So they are quickly trying to raise funds in hopes of buying a digital projector. I wish them the best of luck.

More to the point, I was curious if anyone on the the forums had some real industry updates about the availability of film prints for distribution being discontinued sooner than we first had thought?

I know of some other independently owned local theaters that are still showing film as well, and I understand a non-profit may use different distribution channels which may have dried up. So this situation may not be nation-wide. Still I'm curious when the last day to watch a movie on film might be for me. I'd probably make a trip to the old theater one last time for that.

[WiWavelength]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

Still I'm curious when the last day to watch a movie on film might be for me. I'd probably make a trip to the old theater one last time for that.

Film prints will continue to be exhibited in repertory theaters for decades, if not centuries to come. So, your "last day to watch a movie on film" will likely be the last day that you are alive. However, your last day to watch a new release on film may come soon.

AJ

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by WiWavelength

Film prints will continue to be exhibited in repertory theaters for decades, if not centuries to come. So, your "last day to watch a movie on film" will likely be the last day that you are alive. However, your last day to watch a new release on film may come soon.

AJ

Yeah, you nailed what I was getting at.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by WiWavelength

Film prints will continue to be exhibited in repertory theaters for decades, if not centuries to come. So, your "last day to watch a movie on film" will likely be the last day that you are alive. However, your last day to watch a new release on film may come soon.

AJ

I actually doubt that very much, except in the case of museums and universities who own their own prints.

The expected date for the end of film distribution in the U.S. is now expected to be at the end of 2013 and the end of 2015 globally. Once this happens, the majors are not going to want to pay for the storage costs of 35mm prints, so they're going to do what they've done so many times in the past: they're going to dump them (maybe they'll keep one copy for an archive.) Maybe some will be returned to a producer or director. Maybe some will be donated to museums, so they can take the donation as a tax break. But for the most part, they're going to be gone. Even before the advent of digital, the major studios didn't keep a lot of prints after the initial run.

We'll be lucky if they're smart enough to keep the negatives and intermediates. You know after the 3-strip Technicolor era, the idiot studios frequently tossed two of the three strips, thinking they were duplicates.

I don't think the theatre in the OP has anything to worry about right now, but they will after the end of the year. And by the way to the OP: NATO and Cinedigm via the "Cinema Buying Group" does have a program for small theaters. They've helped more than 3000 community and local theaters with funding, conversion, installation and operations. The theatre should contact NATO for details. (That's the National Association of Theater Owners, not the North Atlantic Treaty Organization).

As of the end of February, 2013, over 33,000 of the U.S.'s 40,000 screens have been converted to digital. Almost 14,000 of those are 3D capable. Over 2800 screens in Canada have been converted of which over 1100 are 3D capable.

According to BoxOffice magazine,

"it appears that a perfect storm of events may bring about the end of film around the end of 2013 due to either a worldwide lack of film stock and/or the closing of processing labs. Studios are weighing carefully the cost to make and distribute film versus the revenue from those limited prints."

And there are actually very few repertory theaters left. Home video and streaming killed them off. Some cities have one or two and some college towns have a few, but most of them are already playing movies digitally or using DVD or BD because prints are no longer available.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

loose="not tight", lose="can't find it, doesn't have anymore" or the opposite of "win".
their="belongs to", there="place", they're="they are", there's = "there is"
it's="it is", for everything else use "its"
then="after", than="compared with"
"a lot" not "alot"

Zoet, b.t.w. -

I like this better as the supplemental aids make it easier for me to remember….http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Zoet, b.t.w. -

I like this better as the supplemental aids make it easier for me to remember….http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling

Yeah..I think I sent that poster to my daughter some years ago.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Yeah..I think I sent that poster to my daughter some years ago.

They post some funny things (like the spelling advice ) but overall I find their site to have a weird kind of general anti-animal tone/theme , which I personally find troublesome because, if anything, I am diametrically opposed…that being obvious, I think, if one has read some of my past postings, like so -

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...lf#post7279123

or viewed some of my posted pics…
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ya#post7133802

[stts651]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

I actually doubt that very much, except in the case of museums and universities who own their own prints.

The expected date for the end of film distribution in the U.S. is now expected to be at the end of 2013 and the end of 2015 globally. Once this happens, the majors are not going to want to pay for the storage costs of 35mm prints, so they're going to do what they've done so many times in the past: they're going to dump them (maybe they'll keep one copy for an archive.) Maybe some will be returned to a producer or director. Maybe some will be donated to museums, so they can take the donation as a tax break. But for the most part, they're going to be gone. Even before the advent of digital, the major studios didn't keep a lot of prints after the initial run.

We'll be lucky if they're smart enough to keep the negatives and intermediates. You know after the 3-strip Technicolor era, the idiot studios frequently tossed two of the three strips, thinking they were duplicates.

I don't think the theatre in the OP has anything to worry about right now, but they will after the end of the year. And by the way to the OP: NATO and Cinedigm via the "Cinema Buying Group" does have a program for small theaters. They've helped more than 3000 community and local theaters with funding, conversion, installation and operations. The theatre should contact NATO for details. (That's the National Association of Theater Owners, not the North Atlantic Treaty Organization).

As of the end of February, 2013, over 33,000 of the U.S.'s 40,000 screens have been converted to digital. Almost 14,000 of those are 3D capable. Over 2800 screens in Canada have been converted of which over 1100 are 3D capable.

According to BoxOffice magazine,

And there are actually very few repertory theaters left. Home video and streaming killed them off. Some cities have one or two and some college towns have a few, but most of them are already playing movies digitally or using DVD or BD because prints are no longer available.

Studio people will not be smart enough to keep anything, they are only interested on the here and now rather than the future.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by stts651

Studio people will not be smart enough to keep anything, they are only interested on the here and now rather than the future.

Now don’t be too harsh as they’re not quite as bad as routinely portrayed in the media, whether it be in regards to old past issues -

The Brotherhood of Evil Studio Executives - YouTube

or more recent ones…http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...llywood-191709

which have finally achieved some public visibility -

NBC4 on VFX Protest - YouTube

[stts651]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Now don’t be too harsh as they’re not quite as bad as routinely portrayed in the media, whether it be in regards to old past issues -

The Brotherhood of Evil Studio Executives - YouTube

or more recent ones…http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...llywood-191709

which have finally achieved some public visibility -

NBC4 on VFX Protest - YouTube

The Studio people are EVEN MORE STUPID & IDIOTIC than they are portrayed in media.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

I actually doubt that very much, except in the case of museums and universities who own their own prints.

The expected date for the end of film distribution in the U.S. is now expected to be at the end of 2013 and the end of 2015 globally. Once this happens, the majors are not going to want to pay for the storage costs of 35mm prints, so they're going to do what they've done so many times in the past: they're going to dump them (maybe they'll keep one copy for an archive.) Maybe some will be returned to a producer or director. Maybe some will be donated to museums, so they can take the donation as a tax break. But for the most part, they're going to be gone. Even before the advent of digital, the major studios didn't keep a lot of prints after the initial run.

We'll be lucky if they're smart enough to keep the negatives and intermediates. You know after the 3-strip Technicolor era, the idiot studios frequently tossed two of the three strips, thinking they were duplicates.

I don't think the theatre in the OP has anything to worry about right now, but they will after the end of the year. And by the way to the OP: NATO and Cinedigm via the "Cinema Buying Group" does have a program for small theaters. They've helped more than 3000 community and local theaters with funding, conversion, installation and operations. The theatre should contact NATO for details. (That's the National Association of Theater Owners, not the North Atlantic Treaty Organization).

As of the end of February, 2013, over 33,000 of the U.S.'s 40,000 screens have been converted to digital. Almost 14,000 of those are 3D capable. Over 2800 screens in Canada have been converted of which over 1100 are 3D capable.

According to BoxOffice magazine,

And there are actually very few repertory theaters left. Home video and streaming killed them off. Some cities have one or two and some college towns have a few, but most of them are already playing movies digitally or using DVD or BD because prints are no longer available.

Was reading your post and I agree with you, aside from the prints that are owned by the non studios, there is no reason for them to archive anything. They never archived anything before so why would they bother now. The studios right do have some prints lying around here and there, I know there are some 70mm prints still around and there are a number of 35mm here and there.

Studios don't care if you want film, if you accept a dcp, they will insist you accept a blu ray for older movies

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

I don't think the theatre in the OP has anything to worry about right now, but they will after the end of the year. And by the way to the OP: NATO and Cinedigm via the "Cinema Buying Group" does have a program for small theaters. They've helped more than 3000 community and local theaters with funding, conversion, installation and operations. The theatre should contact NATO for details. (That's the National Association of Theater Owners, not the North Atlantic Treaty Organization).

lol, I missed that ^.
b.t.w., although not revealed on their site, NATO is in the midst of constructing a new website on which it desires to post pics of theater technology such as sound systems, projectors, servers and what not, so if you happen to have any and would like to contribute (without compensation) then send ‘em in.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

...then send ‘em in.

^ Attention: Brigitte

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

As of the end of February, 2013, over 33,000 of the U.S.'s 40,000 screens have been converted to digital. Almost 14,000 of those are 3D capable. Over 2800 screens in Canada have been converted of which over 1100 are 3D capable...

Since this is an international forum , let’s not forget some of our Euro reader friends…
http://www.mediasalles.it/meet/OX0Pr...oneDGT2013.pdf

[Penton-Man]

Another Kodak moment….http://motion.kodak.com/motion/About...13/Jun03_1.htm

[Flatnate]

I see that another privately owned local theater near me is scrambling with fundraisers to make the digital conversion. I'm curious if the pace of the digital conversion didn't catch some of these private guys (especially ones new to the industry) off guard? I believe this particular group bought this theater two or three years ago, and I always figured the cost of the conversion was the reason the last owner got out (they had put already put a lot of money into the remodel). So they have my sympathies when I see all the "Save our theater" fundraising stuff; but its like "man didn't you guys see this coming two years ago, did it really bite you in the butt that quickly?!".

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by WiWavelength

Film prints will continue to be exhibited in repertory theaters for decades, if not centuries to come.

AJ

Here is one article for 70mm:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...music-box-70mm

And here is one against 70mm:

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/...310-2ftw4.html

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

however they recently received news that they would no longer be able to acquire prints as of late March/April 2013. So they are quickly trying to raise funds in hopes of buying a digital projector. I wish them the best of luck.

I am not sure if they were all of sudden "informed" that there were no prints available. Movie theatres have been warned that a switch from 35mm to digital will be required if they were hoping to continue playing movies. Many theatres were given the option of something called VPF where the studios would help the cinema recoup some of the costs of converting, the VPF offer was going around for a while, it looks like this theatre simply chose to ignore the reality that they theatre would have to change.

As for 35mm, yes 35mm is being phased out, 2015 is the date that most industry people believe is the date that film will be gone, but I think by the end of 2013 is a better estimate. Eventually there will be a point where studios will simply not strike prints for exhibition regardless if there are any film theatres left.

In Toronto Canada, the city used to have a film lab that would supply prints through the region, Deluxe closed the plant. Technicolor and Deluxe both agreed to stop competing with each other and work together and share what film is left to be made. There are only a few print labs still making 35mm in North America and now they are using high speed printing methods etc.

If you are a small chain theatre, you are pretty much required to change over to digital as movie studios are simply not going to book you 10-12 or 20 film prints for chains.

So back to the theatre in question, they were no doubt warned that they would have to switch, they knew about the switch likely as early as 2011. VPF's were only available from the studio for a short time and would not be on the table for ever. I would hate to see the public have to pay for their upgrade....

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

So back to the theatre in question, they were no doubt warned that they would have to switch, they knew about the switch likely as early as 2011. VPF's were only available from the studio for a short time and would not be on the table for ever. I would hate to see the public have to pay for their upgrade....

If that is the case I can see how this theater fell through the cracks so to speak. In 2011 that theater was owned by an actual business who apparently elected to close in 2012. They most likely had the VPF window, passed and elected to close. However, later a non-profit organization took ownership of the property they are most likely out of luck in terms of the VPF and are now on the bottom of the list in terms of print availability. This really highlights how non-profits and independent theaters will have the hardest time securing prints if they are unable to transition to digital.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

If that is the case I can see how this theater fell through the cracks so to speak. In 2011 that theater was owned by an actual business who apparently elected to close in 2012. They most likely had the VPF window, passed and elected to close. However, later a non-profit organization took ownership of the property they are most likely out of luck in terms of the VPF and are now on the bottom of the list in terms of print availability. This really highlights how non-profits and independent theaters will have the hardest time securing prints if they are unable to transition to digital.

A small theatre like that will be on the bottom of the list for print availability. Especially for opening runs of a movie. Basically, movie prints are still being made for the theatres that are currently converting. I know of one owner who refuses to believe that 35mm prints will stop being made. It will happen, the cost of making these prints will skyrocket and studios will not pay for them being made, theatres owners have to remember that the studios pays for the print, not the theatre chain.

Originally Posted by Flatnate

. This really highlights how non-profits and independent theaters will have the hardest time securing prints if they are unable to transition to digital.

Large independents are changing over. You are right the smaller one offs will have a very difficult time booking prints very soon. Already they are finding it difficult. Lots of small theatres are showing blu rays of some movies already.


NOTE: I will say this, when 35mm is done for good, I really do believe we might see a return of 70mm for select cinemas, during this most recent transition to digital, I was shocked to see 70mm return in the form of The Dark Knight Rises, showings of the The Hobbit, Skyfall etc as well as The Master. Venues that have been showing 70mm movies in 2012-2013 did very well and the demand for the tickets was high, North of the border in Canada, there were five cinemas in the Toronto market that screens 70mm movies in the 2012, the three IMAX theatres still showing Hollywood movies, the Varsity that installed 70mm for The Master and the Tiff Lightbox which regularly shows 70mm films including The Master. IMAX in some venues has preserved the option to play 70mm as well as digital 2k in some places.

These cinemas all charged a premium between $15 and $19 for 70mm, I am sure the studios took notice and the demand for the screenings was very high.