4K Movies Releases

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

So, the PS4 won't support 4k?

No, it will....it can. Steed, see first response above.

Hey, I got to watching the rest of the Arsenal match last night…the Gunners *woke up* too late as the damage was already done with RvP’s *header*. I hope I’m wrong but, I’m not convinced they’re title contenders.

ManU could have wanted it more than the Arsenal....or, the Arsenal is still not in the same class as ManU, City and Chelsea. I just don't know.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

No, it will....it can. Steed, see first response above.

Hey, I got to watching the rest of the Arsenal match last night…the Gunners *woke up* too late as the damage was already done with RvP’s *header*. I hope I’m wrong but, I’m not convinced they’re title contenders.

ManU could have wanted it more than the Arsenal....or, the Arsenal is still not in the same class as ManU, City and Chelsea. I just don't know.

Ok, thanks Penton. Arsenal are still one major signing away for me, maybe two. I think they are certs for top 3 though.

[vargo]

The capabilities are probably okay given a 7 year lifespan.

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

To me, meeting HDMI 2.0 spec means the capability to handle 17.82 Gbps (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...82#post8096614 ), which means handling up to 4K/60 10/12 bit 4:2:2 signals.

Unless I was given the wrong information, the chipset inside the current PS4 is inadequate for that…even with a firmware update. Yeah, you can get ‘4K’ thru PS4 with a future firmware update but it will be plain vanilla 4K.


That’s ‘firmware fixable’ in due course with an upgrade if the motivation is there. Not really a problem, except for users who expected it out-of-the-gate.

Didn't the PS3 get a chipset upgrade in future generations? Wouldn't surprise me if in the next few years a quiet revision to silicon that is HDMI 2.0 is slipped into the PS4.

As far as 4K on the PS3...count me not interested. I want a 4K DISC format, not some compromised streaming. I hope I am not disappointed at CES in January.

[vargo]

Originally Posted by Esox50

Didn't the PS3 get a chipset upgrade in future generations? Wouldn't surprise me if in the next few years a quiet revision to silicon that is HDMI 2.0 is slipped into the PS4.

PS3 could software update from HDMI 1.3 to HDMI 1.4 because the bandwidth requirements are the same. The chipset got a minor revision for audio output capabilities during the life of the machine but it was not really a divisive upgrade. You don't want to create a situation within a single console generation where there is a major difference in capability between one revision and the next. Updating to HDMI 2.0 would definitely be divisive and piss early adopters off.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by saprano

You don't take features away that's been there for years. It's 2013, you no longer can have a device that does only one thing. People expect multiple options from whatever electronic device they buy.

Thanks for the info and links. The PS4 just got removed from my short list of media players.

[JoeDeM]

Originally Posted by vargo

PS3 could software update from HDMI 1.3 to HDMI 1.4 because the bandwidth requirements are the same. The chipset got a minor revision for audio output capabilities during the life of the machine but it was not really a divisive upgrade. You don't want to create a situation within a single console generation where there is a major difference in capability between one revision and the next. Updating to HDMI 2.0 would definitely be divisive and piss early adopters off.

Why would they get pissed off, there is nothing wrong with say yearly updates/tweaks to bring the product to the current spec, it's unrealistic to think that the design should be frozen for 7 years. The Xbox 360 later on in the same Generation added HDMI, that didn't make all the previous versions obsolete.

[vargo]

PS4 has some features ommited at launch for the simple reasons that:

a) It won't affect launch sales (they will sell more than they can build regardless)
b) They would prefer that early adopters keep their PS3 instead of selling it to fund PS4 - because there are still a lot of PS3 titles coming.

There is no reason to think that BD 3D, DLNA etc will not come in a future firmware.

Why would they get pissed off, there is nothing wrong with say yearly updates/tweaks to bring the product to the current spec, it's unrealistic to think that the design should be frozen for 7 years.

If you buy your PS4 today and a 'slim' model comes in 3 years that can do something significant that your old one can't, of course you would be upset. The technical specs/capabilities of consoles are supposed to be static with just minor revisions/fixes over their lifetime.

Remember the backlash when backward compatibility was taken from PS3. Now imagine in reverse, something cool that a 'new' PS4 model can do but the launch one can't.

[JoeDeM]

Originally Posted by vargo

PS4 has some features ommited at launch for the simple reasons that:

a) It won't affect launch sales (they will sell more than they can build regardless)
b) They would prefer that early adopters keep their PS3 instead of selling it to fund PS4 - because there are still a lot of PS3 titles coming.

There is no reason to think that BD 3D, DLNA etc will not come in a future firmware.



If you buy your PS4 today and a 'slim' model comes in 3 years that can do something significant that your old one can't, of course you would be upset. The technical specs/capabilities of consoles are supposed to be static with just minor revisions/fixes over their lifetime.

Remember the backlash when backward compatibility was taken from PS3. Now imagine in reverse, something cool that a 'new' PS4 model can do but the launch one can't.

I don't agree simply because it's primarily a game console, any change to the underlying OS/hardware that effects game play would definitely be a problem, but simply adding HDMI 2.0 would not change game play or functionality as a game console, it may not even have the cpu/gpu processing power to run high frame rate 4K video. I don't think the 1 million + launch day buyers (most) even know there was a HDMI 2.0.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by vargo

The capabilities are probably okay given a 7 year lifespan.

Maybe for you but I think it would be a real pity if consumers are still limited for 7 more years to *4K-lite* by a Playstation device that has had the heritage of being a cutting-edge entertainment hub, not to mention its uniqueness as a ‘Trojan horse’ for Blu-ray…..and could be the same for UHD.

I fully expect that if the Samsung displays are truly equal (with everything but pixel count) that no matter how good David’s materials and compression methods are (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...00#post8404100 ),

if the ‘blinded’ observers perceive any difference at all between 4k and 1080p at 2.7m, which the general public currently considers a ‘normal viewing distance’, then the difference will be small. However, ‘normal viewing distances’ do not limit the appreciation/perception of increased bit depth, improved color sampling, HFR, HDR or immersive sound.....which would be possible with true HDMI 2.0 (17.82 Gbps transport capability).

Personally, I wouldn’t mind having the choice of a PS4 Ultimo Edition (with HDMI 2.0 hardware) in a lot less than 7 years time.

[vargo]

I mean 'okay' in the sense that I don't see a huge demand for these things (beyond what HDMI 1.4 can achieve) during the life of the PS4.

The timing just isn't right. Adoption of basic 4K will be slow enough never mind all these other things that future video formats may deliver.

Im not saying I wouldn't like it... i'd take all these things and more tomorrow if you offered them. I just don't think they're necessary given the timeframe of the PS4.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Thanks for the info and links. The PS4 just got removed from my short list of media players.

Well it seems Sony still cares somewhat about the PS4 being a media hub-

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh..._Decoder/13126


As i mentioned, i hope a few firmware updates brings things back the way they were.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by saprano

Well it seems Sony still cares somewhat about the PS4 being a media hub-

I posted the following at AVS a few days ago in response to that announcement:

Lossless audio is part of the CFF spec. Not sure if CFF has been deployed for any UV titles. Because of the data rates of lossless audio, it will probably see very little use in streaming.

Guessing: IF a UV title is made available for DOWNLOAD to the PS4 with lossless audio then the PS4 will make the lossless audio available to your audio processor.

[ay221]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Maybe for you but I think it would be a real pity if consumers are still limited for 7 more years to *4K-lite* by a Playstation device that has had the heritage of being a cutting-edge entertainment hub, not to mention its uniqueness as a ‘Trojan horse’ for Blu-ray…..and could be the same for UHD.

I fully expect that if the Samsung displays are truly equal (with everything but pixel count) that no matter how good David’s materials and compression methods are (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...00#post8404100 ),

if the ‘blinded’ observers perceive any difference at all between 4k and 1080p at 2.7m, which the general public currently considers a ‘normal viewing distance’, then the difference will be small. However, ‘normal viewing distances’ do not limit the appreciation/perception of increased bit depth, improved color sampling, HFR, HDR or immersive sound.....which would be possible with true HDMI 2.0 (17.82 Gbps transport capability).

Personally, I wouldn’t mind having the choice of a PS4 Ultimo Edition (with HDMI 2.0 hardware) in a lot less than 7 years time.

For me I might skip the whole next generation console and just get a 4k player if it catches on.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ay221

For me I might skip the whole next generation console and just get a 4k player if it catches on.

I just hope that the presence of over a million (and counting) devices out there which has a restrictive hardware interface (when it could be rightly argued that even true HDMI 2.0 is not adequate for UHD for the next 7 years)….won’t give content providers a *behind-the-scenes* excuse to hamstring content offerings to 4K/60 8 bit/4:2:0 for a looong time.

Some developer insiders are perplexed about the whole Playstation thing because they know that the beta-versions of the PS4 could play 4K at traditional movie frame rates and don’t quite understand why 4K support for media playback was not enabled with the ‘shipped’ devices.

Two possibilities come to mind….
1. 4K support within the device is not complete, or-
2. It is complete and consumers are being intentionally locked out.

If the later possibility someday proves to be true then I think some business-types will speculate that it was done in order not to undermine puck (FMP-X1) sales…..at least for the time being.

[JoeDeM]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I just hope that the presence of over a million (and counting) devices out there which has a restrictive hardware interface (when it could be rightly argued that even true HDMI 2.0 is not adequate for UHD for the next 7 years)….won’t give content providers a *behind-the-scenes* excuse to hamstring content offerings to 4K/60 8 bit/4:2:0 for a looong time.

Some developer insiders are perplexed about the whole Playstation thing because they know that the beta-versions of the PS4 could play 4K at traditional movie frame rates and don’t quite understand why 4K support for media playback was not enabled with the ‘shipped’ devices.

Two possibilities come to mind….
1. 4K support within the device is not complete, or-
2. It is complete and consumers are being intentionally locked out.

If the later possibility someday proves to be true then I think some business-types will speculate that it was done in order not to undermine puck (FMP-X1) sales…..at least for the time being.

That sounds completely possible, the PS4 costs a lot less than the FMP-X1, $399 vs $699. Has anyone done a tear down of the puck, maybe it's really a PS4 inside

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by JoeDeM

That sounds completely possible, the PS4 costs a lot less than the FMP-X1, $399 vs $699. Has anyone done a tear down of the puck, maybe it's really a PS4 inside

But won't that massively limit the market for 4k?

[JoeDeM]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

But won't that massively limit the market for 4k?

Only for gamers

Originally Posted by Sony from Q&A

Will PS4 support 4K content for video or gaming?

Support for high-resolution 4K output for still images and movie content is in consideration, but there are no further details to share at this time. PS4 does not currently support 4K output for games.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by vargo

PS4 has some features ommited at launch for the simple reasons that:

a) It won't affect launch sales (they will sell more than they can build regardless)
b) They would prefer that early adopters keep their PS3 instead of selling it to fund PS4 - because there are still a lot of PS3 titles coming.

I agree with a) but I think b) is off, I would also add c) that it is a game console, you need to focus and work first on the gaming aspect of it and the gaming needs to be ready (for most of it) long before launch since the developers need to build the games (and their own in house tools) so that you can have launch games.


I find this discussion even more of a joke in a 4k thread since, let's face it, there isn't even any real 4k media for them to have included.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I find this discussion even more of a joke in a 4k thread since, let's face it, there isn't even any real 4k media for them to have included.

Well, I think that some people (like Sap who started the discussion) believed [based upon previous public comments from high-ranking Sony executive(s)] that the PS4 would openly support 4K media playback (movies, Youtube clips) ….with the reasonable assumption that feature would be offered from the get-go at launch.

At the very least, as an aside, it has spurred some relevant adjunctive comments about HDMI interface and UHD parameters.

I’m not really a gamer, so someone will have to enlighten me as to how many real PS4 games are available now? Also, for those that follow this thread and the PS4 gamer threads here on this forum (which I don’t), can anyone tell me if before they installed the 1.5 update for their PS4’s, did they notice if their 4K TVs synched to 4K for a second before down-rezing to 1080p?

P.S.
Anthony , I hope this means that we’re still able to talk a little about HDR perceptual coding 'in a 4K thread' even though no real HDR media is available. Because, point is, it offers greater picture quality improvement than does 1080p -> 4K at the same data rate.