4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

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Originally Posted by AK65

There is a related Kryder's law. 9 years to only get 2X as much of a tech product just blows me away in a negative way.

Add to that improved video codec as well

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by AK65

There is a related Kryder's law. 9 years to only get 2X as much of a tech product just blows me away in a negative way.

That's for magnetic storage, not optical tech. There's a more definable limit to how fine they can make the conventional data pits and how thin they can make the layers and still be able to use it as a multi-layered substrate, which people would then expect to be able to withstand everyday storage and handling. The closer the data is to the disc surface the more it's susceptible to damage (hence Blu-ray being deployed in caddies at the start of its life before the anti-scratch coating was rolled out) and that threat only increases when you start packing in more pits, more layers and and thus more data.

Don't get me wrong, there have been several ideas over the last few years like protein-coating and holographic tech which could hold several terabytes of data, but most of it is still very much experimental (or used solely for professional means because it costs so much) and isn't ready for prime time.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

and I am hoping to eventually see Dolby PQ offered at a lower brightness level (since that would allow it to be used with 10-bit video).

from 10bit, springs good things for 4K/UHD, even before extended dynamic range imaging arrives on 4K BD scene.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

…As I said over a year ago, in time, 4K panels 55” and above will become ubiquitous.

The beat goes on….http://www.twice.com/news/statistics...year-npd/54818

[Geoff D]

So 7% of all TVs sold this year so far in the US have been 4K, for a spend of 2/3rds of a billion dollars? Nice. That's not bad going for a niche product that will never sell because it's useless below a certain screen size and people don't care and DVDs are still being made and whatever other excuses the naysayers have up their sleeves.

[Lentulus Batiatus]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

So 7% of all TVs sold this year so far in the US have been 4K, for a spend of 2/3rds of a billion dollars? Nice. That's not bad going for a niche product that will never sell because it's useless below a certain screen size and people don't care and DVDs are still being made and whatever other excuses the naysayers have up their sleeves.

People will buy the gimmick of 4K in their TV just as they bought X lines of resolution in their old tubes TVs. An ex-friend boasted for years after I'd bought my first 1080p TV how his old, giant CRT rear-projo had 600 lines of resolution (and no HDMI, HD or even component inputs). People buy gimmick names all the time with no real idea or understanding of what it is. A 4K TV does not mean you are watching 4K resolution, but many people will believe that and many sales people will convince them of it.

Because (a small amount of) people are buying 4K TVs now has very little to do with naysayers saying anything. There is next to zero 4K content to be displayed on these 4K TVs. Having one means very little when the content provided is only 2K or even SD still.

As development and productions costs go down so will the price of 4K TVs which will eventually supplant 2K TVs, at least above a certain screen size. But even selling 100 million 4K TVs means squat if there's still no 4K content outside of a few high bandwidth compressed streaming services. I'd wager of all those 4K sets sold so far at least half are being used to watch primarily DVD content and will continue to do so because that content is still being made easily available.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

So 7% of all TVs sold this year so far in the US have been 4K, for a spend of 2/3rds of a billion dollars? Nice. That's not bad going for a niche product that will never sell because it's useless below a certain screen size and people don't care and DVDs are still being made and whatever other excuses the naysayers have up their sleeves.

I like your new avatar.
Fall is here and I’m hoping that Sony can capitalize on this momentum building 4K display enthusiasm with their 4K media player as the stock isn’t doing well today.

P.S.
Economically priced 31” 4K 10bit monitor from LG…http://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-31M...4k-led-monitor

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

People will buy the gimmick of 4K in their TV just as they bought X lines of resolution in their old tubes TVs. An ex-friend boasted for years after I'd bought my first 1080p TV how his old, giant CRT rear-projo had 600 lines of resolution (and no HDMI, HD or even component inputs). People buy gimmick names all the time with no real idea or understanding of what it is. A 4K TV does not mean you are watching 4K resolution, but many people will believe that and many sales people will convince them of it.



Because (a small amount of) people are buying 4K TVs now has very little to do with naysayers saying anything. There is next to zero 4K content to be displayed on these 4K TVs. Having one means very little when the content provided is only 2K or even SD still.



As development and productions costs go down so will the price of 4K TVs which will eventually supplant 2K TVs, at least above a certain screen size. But even selling 100 million 4K TVs means squat if there's still no 4K content outside of a few high bandwidth compressed streaming services. I'd wager of all those 4K sets sold so far at least half are being used to watch primarily DVD content and will continue to do so because that content is still being made easily available.

I'm not sure what it is you're trying to get at. Clueless people buying TVs as status symbols - since when has that ever NOT been the case? People are watching mostly HD/SD content on their 4K sets because there's not a lot of content - hold the front page, that's breaking news!

Irrespective of why people are buying 4K TVs, the fact is that people ARE buying them. The lack of 4K content (well, aside from Sony's download service and Netflix) doesn't mean a great deal at this stage, because HDTVs were around long before there was any pre-recorded content to buy & watch. (Apart from Japan of course, where they had Hi-Vision a quarter of a century ago.)

And by the time that 4K Blu-ray launches next year the TV sales will have grown into a billion dollar business in the US alone, so I don't think that 4K BD will be stillborn, it's gonna come out kicking and screaming.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I like your new avatar.

Fall is here and I’m hoping that Sony can capitalize on this momentum building 4K display enthusiasm with their 4K media player as the stock isn’t doing well today.



P.S.

Economically priced 31” 4K 10bit monitor from LG…http://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-31M...4k-led-monitor

It's been my experience that Sony couldn't organise a piss-up (drinking session) in a brewery, so I wouldn't get your hopes up!

As for the avatar, while the Chuck Jones era of T&J never lived up to the Hanna Barbera golden age, I still got a kick out of them and I've always liked how annoyed Tom looked most of the time.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's been my experience that Sony couldn't organise a piss-up (drinking session) in a brewery, so I wouldn't get your hopes up! ...

I would kind of like to have my dividend payouts re-instituted as soon as possible….http://www.thestar.com/business/2014...irst_time.html

[Geoff D]

Yeah, I read something along those lines a few weeks ago. Sony are struggling big time...

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's been my experience that Sony couldn't organise a piss-up (drinking session) in a brewery, so I wouldn't get your hopes up!

As for the avatar, while the Chuck Jones era of T&J never lived up to the Hanna Barbera golden age, I still got a kick out of them and I've always liked how annoyed Tom looked most of the time.

It's not just Sony. A lot of CE makers have been struggling. Other than Apple and maybe Samsung, most CE makers were hit hard by the recession.

Much of it has been caused by the paradigm shift to portable entertainment devices. I don't see UHD bringing back huge TV sales. Disc players have again become commodity devices hence a push for a UHD format.

Apple and Samsung tablets will eventually become commodity type. I just don't see how much more powerful a tablet needs to be. Battery life eventually will be the main differentiator between devices.

Too bad for Sony. I really like their home theater projectors, but that is a niche product.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

People will buy the gimmick of 4K in their TV just as they bought X lines of resolution in their old tubes TVs. An ex-friend boasted for years after I'd bought my first 1080p TV how his old, giant CRT rear-projo had 600 lines of resolution (and no HDMI, HD or even component inputs). People buy gimmick names all the time with no real idea or understanding of what it is. A 4K TV does not mean you are watching 4K resolution, but many people will believe that and many sales people will convince them of it.

Because (a small amount of) people are buying 4K TVs now has very little to do with naysayers saying anything. There is next to zero 4K content to be displayed on these 4K TVs. Having one means very little when the content provided is only 2K or even SD still.

As development and productions costs go down so will the price of 4K TVs which will eventually supplant 2K TVs, at least above a certain screen size. But even selling 100 million 4K TVs means squat if there's still no 4K content outside of a few high bandwidth compressed streaming services. I'd wager of all those 4K sets sold so far at least half are being used to watch primarily DVD content and will continue to do so because that content is still being made easily available.

Sigh, yawn etc.. Gimmick? Really?

[Steedeel]

Is this the last change for living room TV sets? If 4k is a flop do they eventually just sizzle out altogether? Tok seems to suggest that smartphones etc.. Will replace the living room tv. Is that correct Tok? That would be horrific and kill film for me. We need 4k sets to be a huge hit. I come at this from a purely consumer side by the way.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Is this the last change for living room TV sets? If 4k is a flop do they eventually just sizzle out altogether? Tok seems to suggest that smartphones etc.. Will replace the living room tv. Is that correct Tok? That would be horrific and kill film for me. We need 4k sets to be a huge hit. I come at this from a purely consumer side by the way.

4K won't be a "big hit", it will simply be a generational change. Slowly withdraw the older 1080p sets, slowly offer the 4K sets, very simple. If 4K Blu is compatible with older players, the whole thing just happens, that's all.


There may be issues we haven't heard about. The complete sidelining of 3-D was due to the initial promise that a 3-D film could play in any player, 2-D or 3-D, which turned out to have big problems. Nobody wants to get burned again, so it must be certain that 4K can play perfectly in a 2K player. Merchandisers don't want to carry a SKU for 4K, 3-D, 2K, and DVD all for the same film.


I think that's the only real reason we haven't seen 4K discs sold already. Either it's possible to get everything to work on the same 2-D/3-D player, or it isn't - and having a new television won't guarantee people will rush out to by expensive 4K players, and movies, creating another bust like 3-D. If it doesn't come out right, no one will adopt it, and there's no need for new broadcast standards and so on.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Tok

Much of it has been caused by the paradigm shift to portable entertainment devices. I don't see UHD bringing back huge TV sales. Disc players have again become commodity devices hence a push for a UHD format.

I disagree, I don't think it is a shift (before tablets there were smart phones and PCs... competing for entertainment)

I think it is more like dumb complacence over good times. There were a few years with major shifts that meant that many bought new TVs even when the old TV did not need replacement (cheap large screen flat panels instead of small screen huge CRTs that filled up a room, ATSC replacing NTSC and 4:3 images going to 16:9) that created artificial raised sales for TVs.

If it was really a paradigm shift from TV to tablets you would see people that had TVs (in a room) getting rid of them because now they only need a tablet. I don't know of any such cases.

[Lentulus Batiatus]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

And by the time that 4K Blu-ray launches next year the TV sales will have grown into a billion dollar business in the US alone, so I don't think that 4K BD will be stillborn, it's gonna come out kicking and screaming.

Kicking and screaming like an unwanted teenage pregnancy left behind a dumpster. Morbid, but a valid comparison.

People are not buying 4K TVs not because there will be 4K BD in the future. They are buying them to watch SD content. They will boast ti their friends how awesome their new 4K TV looks while showing off Guardians of the Galaxy on DVD. Just like in the past people boasted about their X lines of resolution while showing off their huge SD TV running 4:3 VHS through a coax cable. Good thing those people with 500 lines were buying laserdiscs to show it all off!

Sales of 4K TVs means NOTHING in support of 4K BD and does NOTHING to support BD in general. 4K TVs could make up 90% of TV sales as 1080p TVs do now but while studios continue to support stand alone DVD the content being displayed will not even be HD, let alone 4K. Less than 1% of 1%.

You want further proof that 4K BD is DOA? The other day I bought Madagascar on Blu-ray. The case included the DVD. I paid the EXACT same price as I could have to buy JUST the DVD. So why even offer JUST the DVD? Because the studios are stupid. Some dolt probably just spent 4 grand on a 4K TV and picked up the DVD only version to play on it.

4K is DOA while DVD still DOMINATES the marketplace due to stupid studio support.

[Lentulus Batiatus]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Sigh, yawn etc.. Gimmick? Really?

Sigh, yawn, etc. Yup. Do you even read the posts?

What are people displaying on all these 4K TVs? SD content. Why? Because it's still made available and fully supported by the studio system who are too afraid of a short 1 quarter dip in sales numbers to drop stand-alone DVD sales. You can sigh and yawn all you like but just because 4K TVs are growing in sales and one day will be the dominate format simply because development and manufacturing costs go way down doesn't do anything to support content format beyond the current HD format which doesn't even make up 50% of the market due to studios still supporting the lesser version.

How many people own computers capable or ridiculous amounts of computer power to only check emails and watch YouTube videos? 4K TVs are the same. Hell the majority of HD TVs aren't even used for HD content right now.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

Kicking and screaming like an unwanted teenage pregnancy left behind a dumpster. Morbid, but a valid comparison.

People are not buying 4K TVs not because there will be 4K BD in the future. They are buying them to watch SD content. They will boast ti their friends how awesome their new 4K TV looks while showing off Guardians of the Galaxy on DVD. Just like in the past people boasted about their X lines of resolution while showing off their huge SD TV running 4:3 VHS through a coax cable. Good thing those people with 500 lines were buying laserdiscs to show it all off!

Sales of 4K TVs means NOTHING in support of 4K BD and does NOTHING to support BD in general. 4K TVs could make up 90% of TV sales as 1080p TVs do now but while studios continue to support stand alone DVD the content being displayed will not even be HD, let alone 4K. Less than 1% of 1%.

You want further proof that 4K BD is DOA? The other day I bought Madagascar on Blu-ray. The case included the DVD. I paid the EXACT same price as I could have to buy JUST the DVD. So why even offer JUST the DVD? Because the studios are stupid. Some dolt probably just spent 4 grand on a 4K TV and picked up the DVD only version to play on it.

4K is DOA while DVD still DOMINATES the marketplace due to stupid studio support.

Are you for real?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

Hell the majority of HD TVs aren't even used for HD content right now.

[citation needed]


You know there are things called cable & satellite that people watch on their TVs, and quite often it's HD, especially stuff like sports.


Last time I looked XBOX 360/ONE and PS3/4 had 1080p output. Are you going to tell me nobody plays video games on their HD or UHD TVs?


What country do people buy these sets and only watch DVDs?