Real 4k disks - what do you think the rollout timeline will be?

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by vargo

An augmented reality system does not need to shut the user off from the world. It superimposes images on your normal view - hence the term augmented reality.

Think google glass form-factor (ie geeky looking glasses) but with a different display technology.

The Oculus Rift demo above was an example of virtual reality (VR not AR) and I specifically stated that. But imagine something similar, with just the screen, placed exactly onto your wall at whatever size was appropriate, and all the surroundings are just your room as viewed normally. That is the concept of a virtual television in AR. I should have explained it beforehand but I assumed everybody posting in a technology section would be familiar with the concept.

don't get me wrong, I get what you are saying, what you are missing is that it is ridiculously dumb and does not make any sense. As a consumer black out glasses make sense for private use, I can be in a plane/train/bus or any other public & noisy place and all I see and hear is my film. On the other hand see through glasses are useless, if I need a white or black wall or screen to define the "screen area" as you described why would I rather add to that many pairs of glasses that need to be charged and functioning instead of one projector? I was POed and skipped on OZ because Disney decided that in NA it will be either 3D only or 2D only and I did not want 3D versions of 3D films but I don't want to buy countless 3D glasses so I need the 2D. If I (and others) am not willing to buy extra 3D glasses so that everyone in my HT can watch a given film in 3D, why would I do that with AR glasses that will most likely be much more expensive. Do you think Joe that desides that 300$ TV is good enough for all his family to watch together will instead decide to buy several AR glasses (each one as expensive if not more than the TV) to do the same job?

You took something simple (a bunch of people sitting together watching something)and tried to solve a problem that does not exist by introducing bad tech that makes it a lot more complicated and a lot more expensive with a result that will be a lot more questionable. But you can't get why people think it is ridiculously dumb to assume that is the future.

[yojoeski]

If the new format is a modification of existing blu-ray technology, I'd say we'll see 4K discs by 2015. If it's an entirely new format, I'd say at least 2018 before they become available to the general public. Of course you could believe the buffoons as well who think streaming will take over and physical media will be gone in the next 5-7 years which I'm quite comfortable in saying is hogwash. Streaming is more than likely going to take over completely someday, but I think it will be 20-25 years before it ever happens.

One problem you have with 4K, IMO, is that you have to really get huge with the screen size to really see the improvements. With 1080p, my belief is that one needs a minimum of a 40 inch screen to really see the benefits with the ideal range being somewhere between 50-65 inches. With 4K, I see the minimum being 60 inches with the ideal range being between 70-85 inches. I think a lot of people are gonna buy a 4K screen in the same size that their 1080p screen is and are gonna be underwhelmed because it will be a 40, 42, 48, 55 inch screen that really isn't gonna be that much of an improvement to their eyes.

I suspect 4K will eventually catch on at the mainstream level but it will be a long time before it does. Consider the fact that, to my knowledge, there has yet to be a television station anywhere in the world that broadcasts a native 1080p image which is just astounding that we're this far into the HD era and no one is broadcasting at that resolution. Think of how long it's gonna be before a station starts broadcasting in 4K. If given enough time, the format will catch on, but in this age of instant profits or else, I'm afraid the plug will be pulled before it has a real chance to catch on because I seriously think we're looking at a decade before such a format would catch on at the mainstream level.

[joie]

I think greater pixel density is better, no matter the screen size. A small 4K display can be used by photographers, scientists and even ordinary people as a computer monitor, if -- a big if -- it's not useful/better for wathcing movies.

[yojoeski]

Originally Posted by joie

I think greater pixel density is better, no matter the screen size. A small 4K display can be used by photographers, scientists and even ordinary people as a computer monitor, if -- a big if -- it's not useful/better for wathcing movies.

Oh you're right on that. Don't get me wrong, 4K is always gonna be an improvement over 1080p no matter how you look at it, but there are already people who claim not to be able to tell the difference between 480p and 1080p on a 40 inch screen so I can't imagine things will change with 4K if the 4K image is on that size of a screen. Will there be an improvement? No doubt. Will it be enough to convince the average, untrained consumer? To be decided.

[mredman]

4K will flop big time i think. People are already more then happy with the PQ on BD. Hell BD look amazing on a big projector screen.

People are not gonna buy into another format when BD look so good now and also the 4K tv sets would cost insanely much

[RyanPom]

I think if they're gonna do 4k disks, why not do some disks of IMAX filmed movies?

[Canada]

Originally Posted by RyanPom

I think if they're gonna do 4k disks, why not do some disks of IMAX filmed movies?

They probably will, I want to see how good the IMAX portions of The Dark Knight and the Dark Knight Rises scenes will look.

[vargo]

Originally Posted by yojoeski

If the new format is a modification of existing blu-ray technology, I'd say we'll see 4K discs by 2015. If it's an entirely new format, I'd say at least 2018 before they become available to the general public. Of course you could believe the buffoons as well who think streaming will take over and physical media will be gone in the next 5-7 years which I'm quite comfortable in saying is hogwash. Streaming is more than likely going to take over completely someday, but I think it will be 20-25 years before it ever happens.

Only a buffoon would think that it will take digital distribution 25 years to take over.

Digital delivery already accounts for more revenue than Bluray.

Digital was $3bn in revenue for first half of 2013 according to the most recent DEG report, which is 36% of all revenue. It was up 24% YOY so it is rapidly increasing. Meanwhile physical revenue goes down every year.

Im not interested in a physical media vs digital delivery debate but the relevance to the 4K disc format discussion is that by the time such a thing would be practical (most agree it is at least several years out), the physical market will be smaller than it is today.

There will simply be no point in launching a 4K disc format to capture perhaps 5-10% of a shrinking physical market. It is so much easer to do it via digital delivery.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by vargo

There will simply be no point in launching a 4K disc format to capture perhaps 5-10% of a shrinking physical market. It is so much easer to do it via digital delivery.

You must be one of those metro dwellers that thinks everyone has very high speed internet and no caps.

For anyone interested please read this Terms of Use and tell me how much you would be willing to pay for a title from this site.

For me: ZERO dollars. No First Sale Doctrine protection = no sale. Period.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by vargo

There will simply be no point in launching a 4K disc format to capture perhaps 5-10% of a shrinking physical market. It is so much easer to do it via digital delivery.

Classic Movie Line #30 - YouTube

[ronjones]

Several news items in the past week point to a 2014 introduction of Blu-ray 4K discs and players. Here is a quick summary of the bits and pieces of info that when taken together seem to paint a picture for Blu-ray 4K coming to consumers next year:

1. HDMI 2.0 standard now approved, announced last week at IFA in Germany

2. First HDMI 2.0 equipped 4K UHD TVs and projectors to begin shipping within a couple of months from now (Sony and Panasonic, announced at IFA)

3. PS4 will have a HDMI 2.0 port (source - Sony representative at IFA)

4. Manufacturing equipment for 3-layer, 100 GB blu-rays disc announced by Singulus for the purpose of supporting 4K Blu-ray discs, now under development by the BDA (full Sept. 10th CDInfo story is HERE)

5. The same CDInfo story as linked in number 4 above also says "This favorable trend is amplified by the market launch of the new ultra-high definition television technology and the upcoming market introduction of the new gaming consoles Playstation PS 4 by Sony and Microsoft?s Xbox One. Both gaming consoles are even expected to be equipped with a Blu-ray drive with 4K support."

6. TechRadar is reporting (full story is HERE):

"The announcement of a next-gen Blu-ray disc is imminent – and there will be no 4k Ultra HD format war, the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) told TechRadar in Berlin."...."Marty Gordon, Philips' Vice President for Alliances & Communications and spokesman for the BDA, promised an announcement of an 'enhanced' Blu-ray format 'soon' -- "The BDA's task-force has been working feverishly and we expect an announcement soon – I hope this year," he said. He also confirmed that the announcement would involve a traditional-looking disc."

Putting all of this together it looks like the Blu-ray 4K standard will be completed late in 2013 or very early in 2014, the PS4 should be firmware upgradable to support the new Blu-ray 4K UHD discs, and there will likely be 4K disc production facilities in place sometime during 2014. Perhap we will see the rollout of this new UHD disc format with both movie discs and players by the 3rd quarter of 2014.

[David M]

1. USB 2.0 standard now approved, announced last week at IFA in Germany

2. First USB 2.0 equipped 4K UHD TVs and projectors to begin shipping within a couple of months from now (Sony and Panasonic, announced at IFA)

3. PS4 will have a USB 2.0 port (source - Sony representative at IFA)

That's HDMI and not USB, but points well made

I am shocked and delighted by the use of a triple layer 100gb disc. If you've looked at my earlier posts, I was certain that they'd stick to 50gb to avoid the manufacturing expense. What great news that we'll have 100gb to play with!

The only thing that concerns me is - is the PS4 capable of reading the new 100gb disc standard?

[ronjones]

Originally Posted by Lyris

That's HDMI and not USB, but points well made

I am shocked and delighted by the use of a triple layer 100gb disc. If you've looked at my earlier posts, I was certain that they'd stick to 50gb to avoid the manufacturing expense. What great news that we'll have 100gb to play with!

The only thing that concerns me is - is the PS4 capable of reading the new 100gb disc standard?

re HDMI: Brain Fart - Corrected

The BD-XL standard, from a couple of years ago, includes writable BDs with up to 33GB per layer and up to 4 layers. Most modern BD burners and BD ROM drives (such those from LG) can read BD-XL discs and if the BDA has adopted a 3-layer disc configuration to be used for 4K movies that is consistent with BD-XL then the PS4's BD drive will probably be ready to go.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Lyris

I am shocked and delighted by the use of a triple layer 100gb disc. If you've looked at my earlier posts, I was certain that they'd stick to 50gb to avoid the manufacturing expense...

David it is so refreshing to hear you admit in the audio/video forum atmosphere where posters (almost on a daily basis) routinely embrace the act of speaking beyond their expertise or firsthand knowledge in their zest to sound ‘authoritative’ but yet, are never held accountable by themselves for constant speculative noise or misinformation. On the other hand, from my reading of your posts despite the fact that you hardly ever make mistakes with your assertions, in the rare occurrence in which you do, you’ve apparently come forward.

Tip of the hat to you.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ronjones

Several news items in the past week point to a 2014 introduction of Blu-ray 4K discs and players. Here is a quick summary of the bits and pieces of info...

Nice summary Ron. A bit belated on some news items which have already been extensively discussed on other threads on this forum but still, nice summary.

Stick around more often.

[David M]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

David it is so refreshing to hear you admit in the audio/video forum atmosphere where posters (almost on a daily basis) routinely embrace the act of speaking beyond their expertise or firsthand knowledge in their zest to sound ‘authoritative’ but yet, are never held accountable by themselves for constant speculative noise or misinformation. On the other hand, from my reading of your posts despite the fact that you hardly ever make mistakes with your assertions, in the rare occurrence in which you do, you’ve apparently come forward.

Tip of the hat to you.

Thanks Penton - it's a fast-moving industry! All the rumblings I was hearing pointed towards 50gb, so I'm wondering what other pleasant surprises are coming up... 10-bit 4:2:2 maybe? Even just one of those would be good

Anyone who claims to be right 100% of the time is probably right about 10% of the time!

It's just so nice to see the more difficult but higher quality option being taken. Not only that, but sometimes we forget that the "streaming media will topple everything else" reality distortion field is just that, distortion. It's a great time for quality on home media.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Lyris

Thanks Penton - it's a fast-moving industry! All the rumblings I was hearing pointed towards 50gb, so I'm wondering what other pleasant surprises are coming up... 10-bit 4:2:2 maybe? Even just one of those would be good

Anyone who claims to be right 100% of the time is probably right about 10% of the time!

It's just so nice to see the more difficult but higher quality option being taken. Not only that, but sometimes we forget that the "streaming media will topple everything else" reality distortion field is just that, distortion. It's a great time for quality on home media.

Well you deserve to be acknowledged for being so genuine.

Humbly, the only rumblings (other than the earthquakes from SoCal) that you should pay attention to are those of ….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...le#post6556166

For much of everything else is a waste of time....unless one is into *debates*.

[David M]

Humbly, the only rumblings (other than the earthquakes from SoCal) that you should pay attention to are those of ….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread....le#post6556166

That depends on your sources
But yes, most online hyperbole is just that.

[Insomniac01]

Originally Posted by mredman

4K will flop big time i think. People are already more then happy with the PQ on BD. Hell BD look amazing on a big projector screen.

People are not gonna buy into another format when BD look so good now and also the 4K tv sets would cost insanely much

I remember people saying the same thing about dvd.

"HD will flop big time i think. People are already more then happy with the PQ on dvd. Hell dvd look amazing on a big projector screen.

People are not gonna buy into another format when dvd look so good now and also the HD tv sets would cost insanely much"

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Lyris

I am shocked and delighted by the use of a triple layer 100gb disc.

I remember how BD was blasted in the early days for using data layers so close to the surface of the disc (meaning some kind of protection would be needed). IIRC, the original reason was it was much easier to do recordings. It should be interesting to see the technical specs for the triple layer disc.