HDR Discussion Thread - Page 365 - Blu-ray Forum

Penton-Man · 11-10-2018, 03:12 AM

Yo, Vincent Teoh (from across the pond), it never hurts to broadens one’s knowledge and step away for a moment from the end user calibration business and learn more about what happens at the beginning of the pipeline - https://www.eventbrite.com/e/hdrwide...ts-52064515367

LordoftheRings · 11-10-2018, 03:21 AM

Now you're talking! It's good to take a break from Top Gun.
_____

Two reviewers two views ... another top gun, the 4K TV OLED from Sony, with HDR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W_c...ature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZRd...ature=youtu.be

Have a superb weekend, in memory ...

Penton-Man · 11-10-2018, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Now you're talking! It's good to take a break from Top Gun.

Actually, I think if you check the last page, it contained a potpourri of topics, anyway, reminds me, b.t.w. coming up Nov. 15 is the HPA Awards 2018 ceremony - https://hpaonline.com/form/hpa-awards-buy-tickets/
which, unlike other post production disciplines that are honored with Academy Awards and such, is the closest thing colorists ever get to an Oscar. So, on that note, the nominees for this year are - https://www.shootonline.com/spw/nomi...018-hpa-awards

Penton-Man · 11-10-2018, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Have a superb weekend, in memory ...

For those of you who live under a rock and don't know....or had heel spurs

when called to serve, I believe Bob is referring to -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Day

and they deserve some recognition as well as all the benefits that they can get - https://militarybenefits.info/vetera...ls-free-meals/

LordoftheRings · 11-10-2018, 03:51 AM

Top Gun is also a great flix to watch this weekend, in memory of our dear departed ones. It's even in 3D Blu-ray.
But there are also some great documentaries on Netflix, PBS, the Network Channel, National Geographic, etc.

Wars are a terrible thing.

DanBa · 11-10-2018, 09:31 AM

"HRD10 and HDR10+ are open standards, so lack the relative guarantee of image playback, with each display manufacturer defining their own internal HDR processing." [Light Illusion]
https://www.lightillusion.com/hdr_calibration.html

"HDR10+ does not specify how the metadata gets utilized by the target display." [Penton]
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...3#post15665093

"The open-source nature of HDR10+ means that manufacturers are free to develop the technology themselves, bringing their own expertise to the implementation of dynamic metadata." [Steve Withers]
https://www.avforums.com/article/wha...metadata.13884

"HDR10+ does not specify implementations." [HDR10+ Technologies, LLC]
http://mile-high.video/files/mhv2018..._10_Mandel.pdf

Due to the lack of HDR10+ display adaptation standardization across manufacturers, a film can look quite different on HDR10+ TV from different manufacturers.

Hopefully in order to fix this very loose interpretation of the original creative intent, a reference implementation of HDR10+ display adaptation (i.e. HDR10+ Color Volume Mapping) will emerge and will be universally adopted. And this HDR10+ reference implementation will allow creative artists to preview and adjust HDR10+ at the mastering post-production time.

"In the making of commercial images the only thing that matters is what happens at the approval process. Everything that happens downstream of this should not alter this image. In other words, the "artistry" happens in mastering process and once approved, should be faithfully delivered to the end user." [Charles Poynton]
http://www.insightmedia.info/a-day-w...arles-poynton/
https://blog.pond5.com/7776-lighting...-and-contrast/
https://digitalsynopsis.com/design/f...or-psychology/

The HDR mastering reference monitor (or more precisely the HDR media color volume) and the end user’s HDR TV usually don’t have the same color volume, hence the need for color volume mapping or display adaptation.
And more, there is a diversity of HDR TVs, i.e. a diversity of reduced color volumes to be adapted from a larger mastering color volume while respecting artistic creative intent approved at the mastering post-production time.

"If some viewing conditions change in one case, two identical stimuli with thereby identical XYZ tristimulus values will create different color appearances (and vice versa: two different stimuli with thereby different XYZ tristimulus values might create an identical color appearance)."
https://www.google.fr/search?q=%22co...hrome&ie=UTF-8

The very same RGB value looks quite different on TVs with different luminance capabilities.
https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/tech-talks/502/

If the artistic intent is a given vivid red, the dynamic metadata associated to this vivid red image sent to the Color Volume Remapping of low luminance TV should convey parameters (i.e. supplementary color grading information) to adjust / increase the saturation of the color red to a given level.
This color saturation increase should be determined by the creative artists adjusting and making decisions on the appearance of the content based on the look of a reference TV (i.e. end-user TV having a reference HDR10+ Color Volume Remapping / reference HDR10+ display adaptation) at the mastering post-production time.
https://www.broadcastingcable.com/po...r-cards-168701

mrtickleuk · 11-10-2018, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

I have made plenty of graphs and charts. Guess, I did not know how the use it properly

. I would not have had a job very long if I produced graphs with the accuracy that one.

Touché!

It's a huge annoyance for me! I always have to manually change the "max" to what I want - I find that Excel always makes a terrible selection for max. Excel seems hell-bent on wanting whitespace to show PAST the highest value. But I always want to produce a graph which is as big as possible to show more detail in the data I have, and I can't understand why anyone else would want any different.

Master S · 11-10-2018, 04:42 PM

Rather than making a new thread just for this, quick question about Dolby Vision on LG OLED E6: I use the Dolby Vision Dark setting, are these settings good ? Is OLED light supposed to be on 50 ?

Penton-Man · 11-10-2018, 08:39 PM

^ well Robert? https://www.valueelectronics.com/#gsc.tab=0

Penton-Man · 11-11-2018, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

related to HDR, WCG, HFR or the increased spatial resolution aspect of 4K/UHD

Yo zmarty, if you’re around, and/or for that matter anyone else who can handle it (DPX), now available is 2160p/100 BT.2100(HLG) test material -
https://tech.ebu.ch/publications/eac...s-2160p100-hlg

Penton-Man · 11-11-2018, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master S

Rather than making a new thread just for this, quick question about Dolby Vision on LG OLED E6: I use the Dolby Vision Dark setting, are these settings good ? Is OLED light supposed to be on 50 ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

^ well Robert? https://www.valueelectronics.com/#gsc.tab=0

C’mon Robert

, remember your self-described personal motto - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...l#post15031747
I doubt anyone else with an E6 will be charitable enough to step up here. You know Geoff with LGs.
Meanwhile, I can’t take my eyes off this Taekwondo (Korean) spin kick

-

Girl Taekwondo Kicks Bottle - YouTube

^ An excellent example of what would look far better captured with a HDC 4300 at 100fps.

LordoftheRings · 11-11-2018, 09:32 PM

Oh she's good.

Penton-Man · 11-12-2018, 06:00 PM

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post15163523

JZ, during the Q&A at about the -54:30 timestamp of the video from the recent Avid event - https://www.facebook.com/Avid/videos/503977036749421/

Penton-Man · 11-12-2018, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Meanwhile, preparing for more filming on the set of TG: M….

In the real life service for our country, be it in war or peacetime as both can be dangerous, in the spirit of ‘NEVER FORGET’ on this Veteran’s Day, nearly one year ago to the day -

And for the really energetic among you with free time, thee absolute best, endearing way to say ‘thank you’ to our veterans…..
https://www.dav.org/help-dav/volunte...help-veterans/

BrownianMotion · 11-12-2018, 07:42 PM

Remember back in September when Samsung stated that Fox and WB would announce "in the coming weeks" several titles that would launch in HDR10+ on UHD blu-ray by the end of the year? It's been a couple of months since then, and no announcement. Given that the year is almost up, there is exactly a 0% chance that any such discs from Fox or WB will be launched by the end of the year.

To the surprise of absolutely nobody, Samsung has once again blatantly lied to the public.

PeterTHX · 11-12-2018, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

Remember back in September when Samsung stated that Fox and WB would announce "in the coming weeks" several titles that would launch in HDR10+ on UHD blu-ray by the end of the year? It's been a couple of months since then, and no announcement. Given that the year is almost up, there is exactly a 0% chance that any such discs from Fox or WB will be launched by the end of the year.

To the surprise of absolutely nobody, Samsung has once again blatantly lied to the public.

Well it's still the coming weeks, just many many (52-plus) weeks.

LordoftheRings · 11-13-2018, 12:31 AM

15 stops of dynamic range, in 8K and 6K ...

❇ https://fstoppers.com/hacks/sony-vid...w-video-306952

Penton-Man · 11-13-2018, 01:53 AM

LordoftheRings, your presence here

reminds me of an event happening this week in your neck of the woods, just down the street from where my wife and I stayed over the summer.
One moment while I collate.

Penton-Man · 11-13-2018, 02:07 AM

Dolby and others are spreading the HDR word this week up in Vancouver (http://www.imaging.org/Site/PDFS/Con...yProgramLR.pdf) during

Courses -
SC13: The Art of Making Better Pixels: High Dynamic
Range Display Concepts and Technologies
13:30-15:30 (2 hours)
Instructor: Timo Kunkel, Dolby Laboratories, Inc.

Workshops -
W3: HDR and Movie Production
Speakers:
• Sean Cooper (DoubleNegative)
• Chris Davies (post production consultant)
• Timo Kunkel (Dolby Laboratories, Inc.)
• Dermot Shane (colorist/finishing artist)

And last, but not least, cutting edge presentations –
“BRIGHT IDEAS”
Assessing Color Discernibility in HDR Imaging Using Adaptation Hulls -
Timo Kunkel, Robert Wanat, Jaclyn Pytlarz, Robin Atkins, and Scott Daly, Dolby Laboratories, Inc. (USA)

On a side note, with regards to human color vision and color science, Andrew Stockman from UCL will also again be giving a course.

Penton-Man · 11-13-2018, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

On a side note, with regards to human color vision and color science, Andrew Stockman from UCL will also again....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

**Geoffy awaits Penton to dig up a post from aeons ago informing us of exactly that**

No problem -
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post13897353
C.V. -
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post12276151

11-10-2018, 09:31 AM	#7286
DanBa Senior Member Member since: Sep 2010 Posts: 562 Thanks: 625 Thanked 400 times in 234 posts	HDR10+, Creative Intent and Display Adaptation "HRD10 and HDR10+ are open standards, so lack the relative guarantee of image playback, with each display manufacturer defining their own internal HDR processing." [Light Illusion] https://www.lightillusion.com/hdr_calibration.html "HDR10+ does not specify how the metadata gets utilized by the target display." [Penton] https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...3#post15665093 "The open-source nature of HDR10+ means that manufacturers are free to develop the technology themselves, bringing their own expertise to the implementation of dynamic metadata." [Steve Withers] https://www.avforums.com/article/wha...metadata.13884 "HDR10+ does not specify implementations." [HDR10+ Technologies, LLC] http://mile-high.video/files/mhv2018..._10_Mandel.pdf Due to the lack of HDR10+ display adaptation standardization across manufacturers, a film can look quite different on HDR10+ TV from different manufacturers. Hopefully in order to fix this very loose interpretation of the original creative intent, a reference implementation of HDR10+ display adaptation (i.e. HDR10+ Color Volume Mapping) will emerge and will be universally adopted. And this HDR10+ reference implementation will allow creative artists to preview and adjust HDR10+ at the mastering post-production time. "In the making of commercial images the only thing that matters is what happens at the approval process. Everything that happens downstream of this should not alter this image. In other words, the "artistry" happens in mastering process and once approved, should be faithfully delivered to the end user." [Charles Poynton] http://www.insightmedia.info/a-day-w...arles-poynton/ https://blog.pond5.com/7776-lighting...-and-contrast/ https://digitalsynopsis.com/design/f...or-psychology/ The HDR mastering reference monitor (or more precisely the HDR media color volume) and the end user’s HDR TV usually don’t have the same color volume, hence the need for color volume mapping or display adaptation. And more, there is a diversity of HDR TVs, i.e. a diversity of reduced color volumes to be adapted from a larger mastering color volume while respecting artistic creative intent approved at the mastering post-production time. "If some viewing conditions change in one case, two identical stimuli with thereby identical XYZ tristimulus values will create different color appearances (and vice versa: two different stimuli with thereby different XYZ tristimulus values might create an identical color appearance)." https://www.google.fr/search?q=%22co...hrome&ie=UTF-8 The very same RGB value looks quite different on TVs with different luminance capabilities. https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/tech-talks/502/ If the artistic intent is a given vivid red, the dynamic metadata associated to this vivid red image sent to the Color Volume Remapping of low luminance TV should convey parameters (i.e. supplementary color grading information) to adjust / increase the saturation of the color red to a given level. This color saturation increase should be determined by the creative artists adjusting and making decisions on the appearance of the content based on the look of a reference TV (i.e. end-user TV having a reference HDR10+ Color Volume Remapping / reference HDR10+ display adaptation) at the mastering post-production time. https://www.broadcastingcable.com/po...r-cards-168701

11-10-2018, 03:12 AM	#7281
Penton-Man Retired Hollywood Insider Member since: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,165 Thanks: 24 Thanked 4,173 times in 3,113 posts	Yo, Vincent Teoh (from across the pond), it never hurts to broadens one’s knowledge and step away for a moment from the end user calibration business and learn more about what happens at the beginning of the pipeline - https://www.eventbrite.com/e/hdrwide...ts-52064515367

11-10-2018, 03:51 AM	#7285
LordoftheRings Special Member Member since: Mar 2010 Location: Portishead ♫ Posts: 28,561 Thanks: 4,112 Thanked 6,899 times in 4,825 posts	Top Gun is also a great flix to watch this weekend, in memory of our dear departed ones. It's even in 3D Blu-ray. But there are also some great documentaries on Netflix, PBS, the Network Channel, National Geographic, etc. Wars are a terrible thing.

11-10-2018, 04:42 PM	#7288
Master S Expert Member Member since: May 2011 Location: Belgium Posts: 898 Thanks: 193 Thanked 284 times in 130 posts	Rather than making a new thread just for this, quick question about Dolby Vision on LG OLED E6: I use the Dolby Vision Dark setting, are these settings good ? Is OLED light supposed to be on 50 ?

11-10-2018, 08:39 PM	#7289
Penton-Man Retired Hollywood Insider Member since: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,165 Thanks: 24 Thanked 4,173 times in 3,113 posts	^ well Robert? https://www.valueelectronics.com/#gsc.tab=0

11-11-2018, 09:32 PM	#7292
LordoftheRings Special Member Member since: Mar 2010 Location: Portishead ♫ Posts: 28,561 Thanks: 4,112 Thanked 6,899 times in 4,825 posts	Oh she's good.

11-12-2018, 06:00 PM	#7293
Penton-Man Retired Hollywood Insider Member since: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,165 Thanks: 24 Thanked 4,173 times in 3,113 posts	https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post15163523 JZ, during the Q&A at about the -54:30 timestamp of the video from the recent Avid event - https://www.facebook.com/Avid/videos/503977036749421/

11-12-2018, 07:42 PM	#7295
BrownianMotion Power Member Member since: Nov 2013 Posts: 1,840 Thanks: 307 Thanked 1,053 times in 542 posts	Remember back in September when Samsung stated that Fox and WB would announce "in the coming weeks" several titles that would launch in HDR10+ on UHD blu-ray by the end of the year? It's been a couple of months since then, and no announcement. Given that the year is almost up, there is exactly a 0% chance that any such discs from Fox or WB will be launched by the end of the year. To the surprise of absolutely nobody, Samsung has once again blatantly lied to the public.

11-13-2018, 12:31 AM	#7297
LordoftheRings Special Member Member since: Mar 2010 Location: Portishead ♫ Posts: 28,561 Thanks: 4,112 Thanked 6,899 times in 4,825 posts	15 stops of dynamic range, in 8K and 6K ... ❇ https://fstoppers.com/hacks/sony-vid...w-video-306952

11-13-2018, 01:53 AM	#7298
Penton-Man Retired Hollywood Insider Member since: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,165 Thanks: 24 Thanked 4,173 times in 3,113 posts	LordoftheRings, your presence here reminds me of an event happening this week in your neck of the woods, just down the street from where my wife and I stayed over the summer. One moment while I collate.

11-13-2018, 02:07 AM	#7299
Penton-Man Retired Hollywood Insider Member since: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,165 Thanks: 24 Thanked 4,173 times in 3,113 posts	Dolby and others are spreading the HDR word this week up in Vancouver (http://www.imaging.org/Site/PDFS/Con...yProgramLR.pdf) during Courses - SC13: The Art of Making Better Pixels: High Dynamic Range Display Concepts and Technologies 13:30-15:30 (2 hours) Instructor: Timo Kunkel, Dolby Laboratories, Inc. Workshops - W3: HDR and Movie Production Speakers: • Sean Cooper (DoubleNegative) • Chris Davies (post production consultant) • Timo Kunkel (Dolby Laboratories, Inc.) • Dermot Shane (colorist/finishing artist) And last, but not least, cutting edge presentations – “BRIGHT IDEAS” Assessing Color Discernibility in HDR Imaging Using Adaptation Hulls - Timo Kunkel, Robert Wanat, Jaclyn Pytlarz, Robin Atkins, and Scott Daly, Dolby Laboratories, Inc. (USA) On a side note, with regards to human color vision and color science, Andrew Stockman from UCL will also again be giving a course.