The Hobbit Trilogy Discussion Thread

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by TheWildWhelk

Bob, i'm pretty sure that Jackson said that the sets they had built were for Dale rather than Laketown, but i will go back and check. Regardless, we aren't going to see the majority of Laketown action kick off (obviously!) until the second film.

It appears as though Dale may be the Hobbit equivalent of Osgiliath in LotR; towns more prominently featured in the films than they were in the book. That's OK, I'll take whatever we can get. Unfortunately, the region where I would like to have seen more historical development would be the Barrow-downs, but since Jackson excluded them from the LotR films, I doubt that we will see them related to the supplemental Witch-king/Angmar footage.

Originally Posted by Duffy12

I do not remember seeing any of Mirrormere in FotR. Are you sure that it was in there?

Actually, it wasn't Fellowship that included what I thought was scenes of Mirrormere, but the beginning of The Two Towers, where we see the exterior of a mountain as the voice of Gandalf is heard confronting the Balrog. Note the lake that lies in the dale of the mountains. If that mountain is Zirak-zigil (which it almost certainly is), the lake must be Mirror-mere, as it is the only sizable lake in that region. It is also approximately the same shape and size as described in the book.

And back to

[Show spoiler] the pre-history of Moria. Though I am very much looking forward to the goblin/dwarf wars, I feel that by showing them it could detract from the fellowships passage through it. The first time reading the story we are not sure if they will eventually find any surviving dwarfs. It was a nice mystery wondering if any are left, and this kind of spoils that.

I believe you may be correct with your conjecture about Jackson including footage of

[Show spoiler] Balin returning to Moria with the Dwarves. For one thing, it would allow a continuation of the story and characters already in the movie, and would also allow the special effects and model crews to reuse items that have already been constructed for LotR. Also, the Watcher in the Water will have another film to "star" in, as of course it kills Oin at the west gate.

[Snicket]

So any news about who Saoirse Ronan is playing besides an elf? she has been pretty low key during this whole production.

EDIT: Just looked it up and I guess she had to drop, that sucks big time I was really looking forward to her.

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

Actually, it wasn't Fellowship that included what I thought was scenes of Mirrormere, but the beginning of The Two Towers, where we see the exterior of a mountain as the voice of Gandalf is heard confronting the Balrog. Note the lake that lies in the dale of the mountains. If that mountain is Zirak-zigil (which it almost certainly is), the lake must be Mirror-mere, as it is the only sizable lake in that region. It is also approximately the same shape and size as described in the book.

Ahhh...yes.

I have always noted that too when watching it. But I assumed that it was just a HAPPY coincidence that it appeared there.

I see it at 1:20 in the following vid-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEatSht0fuI

MAN! That music is sooo beautiful in that scene. Probably my favorite part of the score in the whole series.

.

[Duffy12]

.

A few more pics from EMPIRE mag-

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Talyn

I'm alright with this since he's taking things from Tolkien's notes, appendices, etc... It's not like he's making this sh*t up.

The problem is, he has already shown that that he and the scriptwriters WILL make stuff up.

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by radagast

The problem is, he has already shown that that he and the scriptwriters WILL make stuff up.

I'm literally doing what your avatar is doing, right now.

[Buddy Ackerman]

Originally Posted by Duffy12

Ahhh...yes.

I have always noted that too when watching it. But I assumed that it was just a HAPPY coincidence that it appeared there.

I see it at 1:20 in the following vid-

[Show spoiler]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEatSht0fuI

MAN! That music is sooo beautiful in that scene. Probably my favorite part of the score in the whole series.

.

Funnily enough, I was saying the same thing about that piece of music in the 'Incredible Opening Scenes' thread. A highlight of a long list of highlights from Shore's incredible score (though, for me, the absolute highlight is the music from the Ride of the Rohirrim - 'The Battle of Pelennor Fields' on the Complete Recordings release)

The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King CR - 04. The Battle of the Pelennor Fields - YouTube

[jbig31]

Looking at the chapters in The Hobbit and the storyline following the chapters I was trying to speculate how PJ would split the story into 3 seperate films.

This is what I came up with: I'll use spoiler tags so not to ruin anything for those who haven't read to book or not familiar with the story.

Movie 1:

[Show spoiler]An Unexpected Party through Out Of The Frying Pan Into The Fire

Movie 2:

[Show spoiler]Queer Lodging through On The Doorstep

Movie 3:

[Show spoiler]Inside Information through The Last Stage

Now maybe this could work? I mean, PJ could sprinke tie-ins from the appendices throughout and it would still make sense.

These are just my thoughts, please add your own thoughts/ideas.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by jbig31

Looking at the chapters in The Hobbit and the storyline following the chapters I was trying to speculate how PJ would split the story into 3 seperate films.

This is what I came up with: I'll use spoiler tags so not to ruin anything for those who haven't read to book or not familiar with the story.

Movie 1:

[Show spoiler]An Unexpected Party through Out Of The Frying Pan Into The Fire

Movie 2:

[Show spoiler]Queer Lodging through On The Doorstep

Movie 3:

[Show spoiler]Inside Information through The Last Stage

Now maybe this could work? I mean, PJ could sprinke tie-ins from the appendices throughout and it would still make sense.

These are just my thoughts, please add your own thoughts/ideas.

Jbig,

That seems to be a reasonable guess. I would imagine it all depends what parts of the appendices he uses and the time intensity of the material. For example, if he adds a lengthy prologue (ala Fellowship), that could push the actual Hobbit story back, but it would still make sense to end the first of three movies where you indicated. It looks as though that at least the Rivendell sequence will be quite involved, so that could be another factor in the first film. Likewise, extensive background with the ouster of "you-know-who" could also lengthen the second film, as would adding material to cover the 60 years between Hobbit and LotR have the same effect on the third. Conceivably, most (all?) of the third movie could be auxiliary material. He has titles for the first two - An Unexpected Journey and There and Back Again. If he "comes back", what would be the title of the third movie?

[Snicket]

Possable 3rd movie titles?

The Hobbit: Give me moar money!
The Hobbit: laughing all the way to the bank.
The Hobbit: We aren't even trying anymore...
The Hobbit: Seriously, why are you watching this?
The Hobbit: You just got trolled by Peter Jackson.

[retablo]

So now we have 1 book splitting into 2 films? I predicted the future of filmmaking to be long-form storytelling for TV... like, say, what they do with Game Of Thrones and make each book a season. That equals a 10-hour movie, so Jackson and Co aren't far off...

[TheWildWhelk]

Got to say i disagree with the possible break-up points of the films based on your suggestions. Please bear in mind that we know that the 'Barrels' sequence will be in the first film, as it has featured in promo material for it, so that would be the cut-off point for Film 1. Film 2 would end with

[Show spoiler]The Batlle of The Five Armies

with the third and final film being the

[Show spoiler]Seige Of Dol Guldur and possibly the search for Gollum.

That seems the only logical choice. Otherwise the second film is stacked with to much action, with a double finale with 2 major set pieces.

[Buddy Ackerman]

Originally Posted by TheWildWhelk

Got to say i disagree with the possible break-up points of the films based on your suggestions. Please bear in mind that we know that the 'Barrels' sequence will be in the first film, as it has featured in promo material for it, so that would be the cut-off point for Film 1. Film 2 would end with

[Show spoiler]The Batlle of The Five Armies

with the third and final film being the

[Show spoiler]Seige Of Dol Guldur and possibly the search for Gollum.

That seems the only logical choice. Otherwise the second film is stacked with to much action, with a double finale with 2 major set pieces.

I think it'll be fine to have them both in the second film - after all, Fellowship had Moria and Amon Hen and ROTK has Pelennor Fields and the Battle of the Black Gate (which wasn't huge but still came after the bigger set piece). You could have Dol Gildur early in the film to break up the quiet moments of

[Show spoiler]the dwarves and Biblo walking around Laketown and then hanging around a mountain door. Bilbo in Smaug's lair will be incredible but it's not action-y

. But then I've always assumed that Dol Gildur would be in the first film as it lacks a 'battle' set piece otherwise but I'm not sure how the Necromancer plot could continue after that in There and Back Again and having the plotline in only one film might feel a bit lopsided.

I agree about the split point though - I'm sure they'll stick with the barrel sequence as the cut-off point because they've already structured that film and have a rough edit (plus the promo stuff, as you say). The extra filming isn't going to be until next year so I don't think they have the time or resources to alter it now. Personally I always thought that An Unexpected Journey would end with

[Show spoiler]the spider sequence - it seemed a perfect place to wrap it up as Bilbo finds his courage and takes a huge leap forward in being the hero and it's also a bit of a cliffhanger when the dwarves get taken

so I wouldn't be disappointed if they did chop it back a bit but I don't think they will.

[Dead By Shaun]

Originally Posted by jbig31

Looking at the chapters in The Hobbit and the storyline following the chapters I was trying to speculate how PJ would split the story into 3 seperate films.

This is what I came up with: I'll use spoiler tags so not to ruin anything for those who haven't read to book or not familiar with the story.

Movie 1:

[Show spoiler]An Unexpected Party through Out Of The Frying Pan Into The Fire

Movie 2:

[Show spoiler]Queer Lodging through On The Doorstep

Movie 3:

[Show spoiler]Inside Information through The Last Stage

Now maybe this could work? I mean, PJ could sprinke tie-ins from the appendices throughout and it would still make sense.

These are just my thoughts, please add your own thoughts/ideas.

Funny... I was just thinking about this the other night myself and have assembled my own thoughts on the subject which I'd like to share. I based my concepts off a few key points...

First off, I don't think a bridge film is likely, as there isn't a strong enough narrative and it would require Jackson and his team to invent too much material. It would make much more sense to grab various plot details from the Appendices and weave them into The Hobbit, rather then try to conceive an entirely new film based on the Appendices alone.

Secondly, Jackson recently admitted that he shot way more footage than he initially expected, which indicates to me that it's entirely possible that he could shift the break points in each of the films and create a third, simply by filming a couple more months next year and combining it with the footage he already has. Remember, he only just wrapped principal photography a couple weeks ago and is just now entering the post-production stage, so a complete edit of the first film likely does not exist yet, is only in a rough format, or is too long. The reason that talks with the studio right now regarding a third film are so critical is that a decision would need to be made sooner, rather than later, in order for Jackson to know how to properly edit and place the break point in the first film, should a third film be approved. I think it's highly likely that a decision about this will be reached in the next couple weeks.

Anyhow, with that out of the way here's what I came up with based on chapters from The Hobbit. I hope you enjoy...

[Show spoiler]The Hobbit - Part One: An Unexpected Journey

- An Unexpected Party (Bilbo meets Thorin & company)
- Roast Mutton (Trolls)
- A Short Rest (Elrond and Rivendell)
- Over Hill And Under Hill (The goblins and the Goblin King)
- Riddles In The Dark (Bilbo discovers the ring of power and meets Gollum)
- Out Of The Frying Pan Into The Fire (Wargs, Goblins, burning trees, and Eagles' rescue)
- Queer Lodgings (Beorn)
- Flies And Spiders (Mirkwood and Spider Attack)

The first film would be quite linear, similar to Fellowship of the Ring (which also began in the Shire). An Unexpected Journey would follow Bilbo, Gandalf and the Dwarves as they begin their journey. Gandalf leaves just as they're about to enter Mirkwood Forest where Bilbo must do battle with the spiders. It's likely that we would get our first glimpse of Radagast the Brown around this time, as he would probably be Gandalf's first point of destination since Radagast lives on the western eaves of Mirkwood and is friends with Beorn. The film ends shortly after the spider battle when the dwarves are captured by the Wood Elves and Bilbo is left alone to fend for himself.

The Hobbit - Part Two: The Desolation of Smaug

- Barrels Out of Bond (The Elven King, escape from the Wood Elves)
- A Warm Welcome (arrival at Laketown)
- On The Doorstep (the ascent up Lonely Mountain, search for the secret door)
- Inside Information (Bilbo confronts Smaug)
- Fire And Water (destruction of Laketown and death of Smaug)

The second film would follow two story lines: one of course being Bilbo and the dwarves, while the other would explain where Gandalf went. The film would start out with Bilbo rescuing and reuniting with the dwarves by escaping from the Wood Elves and into barrels on the river, then continuing on their journey all the way to Lonely Mountain. Gandalf's story would obviously utilize the LOTR Appendices for extra material and contain a plot concerning the White Council, Dol Guldur and the Necromancer (Sauron). I would surmise that we may see more back history on the town of Dale (especially since Jackson has commented in his VLOGs that its set construction rivals those built for LOTR), probably told by the Bard once the dwarves and Bilbo arrive in Laketown, and we would also be introduced to the controversial new character Tauriel, which would obviously be introduced in the hall of the Elven King. The film would end following the destruction of Laketown and the death of Smaug.

The Hobbit - Part Three: There And Back Again

- Not At Home (Thorin reclaims his treasure, Bilbo finds the Arkenstone)
- The Gathering Of The Clouds (Armies of Men and Elves appear and lay claim to Thorin's gold)
- A Thief In The Night (Bilbo sneaks away from Thorin to negotiate with the Bard and Elven King)
- The Clouds Burst (The Battle of Five Armies)
- The Return Journey (The aftermath and Thorin's death)
- The Last Stage (Back in Hobbiton)

The third film would focus on Thorin Oakenshield and the growing strain on his relationship with Bilbo as he prepares for battle to defend his reclaimed treasure. This could allow for flashback sequences derived from the LOTR Appendices concerning Durin's Folk (which includes the Battle of Azanulbizar) as Thorin may try to explain to Bilbo the nature of dwarves and why they would fight to protect what they consider rightfully theirs. We would also see the resolution of the White Council story line in which the Necromancer (Sauron) flees Dol Guldur. The film would climax with the Battle of Five Armies, mirroring the epic nature and scale of The Return of the King's battle sequences, and wind down with Bilbo's journey back home.

Breaking the trilogy down in this manner would give each of the three films an epic climax:

- Film One: Bilbo battling the spiders
- Film Two: The death of Smaug
- Film Three: The Battle of Five Armies

I swapped chapter 13 "Not At Home" with chapter 14 "Fire And Water," as technically the events in these chapters don't happen in chronological order and it obviously makes for a better climax at the end of film two. Chapter 13 deals with the dwarves and Bilbo hiding inside Lonely Mountain and wondering if Smaug will return, all the while not realizing that Smaug is already dead. Chapter 14 explains what happens to Smaug while the dwarves were hiding and waiting inside the mountain.

Oh, and if you haven't already guessed... I'm one of the crazies that thinks a trilogy could actually work... oh yeah, and one more thing... I'm also looking forward to the day when I can view back-to-back Middle-Earth trilogies as well!

[Buddy Ackerman]

Originally Posted by Dead By Shaun

Anyhow, with that out of the way here's what I came up with based on chapters from The Hobbit. I hope you enjoy...

[Show spoiler]The Hobbit - Part One: An Unexpected Journey

- An Unexpected Party (Bilbo meets Thorin & company)
- Roast Mutton (Trolls)
- A Short Rest (Elrond and Rivendell)
- Over Hill And Under Hill (The goblins and the Goblin King)
- Riddles In The Dark (Bilbo discovers the ring of power and meets Gollum)
- Out Of The Frying Pan Into The Fire (Wargs, Goblins, burning trees, and Eagles' rescue)
- Queer Lodgings (Beorn)
- Flies And Spiders (Mirkwood and Spider Attack)

The first film would be quite linear, similar to Fellowship of the Ring (which also began in the Shire). An Unexpected Journey would follow Bilbo, Gandalf and the Dwarves as they begin their journey. Gandalf leaves just as they're about to enter Mirkwood Forest where Bilbo must do battle with the spiders. It's likely that we would get our first glimpse of Radagast the Brown around this time, as he would probably be Gandalf's first point of destination since Radagast lives on the western eaves of Mirkwood and is friends with Beorn. The film ends shortly after the spider battle when the dwarves are captured by the Wood Elves and Bilbo is left alone to fend for himself.

The Hobbit - Part Two: The Desolation of Smaug

- Barrels Out of Bond (The Elven King, escape from the Wood Elves)
- A Warm Welcome (arrival at Laketown)
- On The Doorstep (the ascent up Lonely Mountain, search for the secret door)
- Inside Information (Bilbo confronts Smaug)
- Fire And Water (destruction of Laketown and death of Smaug)

The second film would follow two story lines: one of course being Bilbo and the dwarves, while the other would explain where Gandalf went. The film would start out with Bilbo rescuing and reuniting with the dwarves by escaping from the Wood Elves and into barrels on the river, then continuing on their journey all the way to Lonely Mountain. Gandalf's story would obviously utilize the LOTR Appendices for extra material and contain a plot concerning the White Council, Dol Guldur and the Necromancer (Sauron). The film would end following the destruction of Laketown and the death of Smaug.

The Hobbit - Part Three: There And Back Again

- Not At Home (Thorin reclaims his treasure, Bilbo finds the Arkenstone)
- The Gathering Of The Clouds (Armies of Men and Elves appear and lay claim to Thorin's gold)
- A Thief In The Night (Bilbo sneaks away from Thorin to negotiate with the Bard and Elven King)
- The Clouds Burst (The Battle of Five Armies)
- The Return Journey (The aftermath and Thorin's death)
- The Last Stage (Back in Hobbiton)

The third film would focus on Thorin Oakenshield and the growing strain on his relationship with Bilbo as he prepares for battle to defend his reclaimed treasure. This could allow for flashback sequences derived from the LOTR Appendices concerning Durin's Folk (which includes the Battle of Azanulbizar) as Thorin may try to explain to Bilbo the nature of dwarves and why they would fight to protect what they consider rightfully theirs. We would also see the resolution of the White Council story line in which the Necromancer (Sauron) flees Dol Guldur. The film would climax with the Battle of Five Armies, mirroring the epic nature and scale of The Return of the King's battle sequences, and wind down with Bilbo's journey back home.

Breaking the trilogy down in this manner would give each of the three films an epic climax:

- Film One: Bilbo battling the spiders
- Film Two: The death of Smaug
- Film Three: The Battle of Five Armies

I swapped chapter 13 "Not At Home" with chapter 14 "Fire And Water," as technically the events in these chapters don't happen in chronological order and it obviously makes for a better climax at the end of film two. Chapter 13 deals with the dwarves and Bilbo hiding inside Lonely Mountain and wondering if Smaug will return, all the while not realizing that Smaug is already dead. Chapter 14 explains what happens to Smaug while the dwarves were hiding and waiting inside the mountain.

Oh, and if you haven't already guessed... I'm one of the crazies that thinks a trilogy could actually work... oh yeah, and one more thing... I'm also looking forward to the day when I can view back-to-back Middle-Earth trilogies as well!

Great work! Brilliant breakdown of the story as a trilogy. Still not sure that the second film wouldn't feel a bit 'slight' if the Laketown/Lonely Mountain/BoFA stuff was split up (compared to how big a journey the first film would be and how many different encounters they have in a variety of settings) but the Dol Gildur stuff can pad it out. Either way, if it has to be, then that's a nice way to divide it up. Well done.

I'm still torn about it. I love Lord of the Rings as much as the next person (assuming the next person is absolutely in love with it to the point of craziness) and the idea of more Middle-Earth on-screen, rendered by Peter Jackson, is a brilliant one. On the other hand I'm still anxious about how altering the structure they've had for a few years at such short notice. I don't think it's being done for money, I really believe jackson has a genuine passion for this and wants to sieze this opportunity to do as much as he can, which is great. And obviously this may have been under consideration for who knows how long before becomming public knowledge? After everything he's done I'm happy to trust Jackson but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be happy if he announced it was still two films with some very Extended Editions in the pipeline.

Of course, I still hold out hope that he wants to film extra stuff for longer edits of Lord of the Rings as well. Not in a 'put Martin Freeman in as Bilbo' way (though, if he did do post-Hobbit versions then it wouldn't be an awful thing), just in a way that joins the two stories closer together through Appendices material.

[lupinskitten]

Originally Posted by Dead By Shaun

Funny... I was just thinking about this the other night myself and have assembled my own thoughts on the subject which I'd like to share. I based my concepts off a few key points...

First off, I don't think a bridge film is likely, as there isn't a strong enough narrative and it would require Jackson and his team to invent too much material. It would make much more sense to grab various plot details from the Appendices and weave them into The Hobbit, rather then try to conceive an entirely new film based on the Appendices alone.

Secondly, Jackson recently admitted that he shot way more footage than he initially expected, which indicates to me that it's entirely possible that he could shift the break points in each of the films and create a third, simply by filming a couple more months next year and combining it with the footage he already has. Remember, he only just wrapped principal photography a couple weeks ago and is just now entering the post-production stage, so a complete edit of the first film likely does not exist yet, is only in a rough format, or is too long. The reason that talks with the studio right now regarding a third film are so critical is that a decision would need to be made sooner, rather than later, in order for Jackson to know how to properly edit and place the break point in the first film, should a third film be approved. I think it's highly likely that a decision about this will be reached in the next couple weeks.

Anyhow, with that out of the way here's what I came up with based on chapters from The Hobbit. I hope you enjoy...

[Show spoiler]The Hobbit - Part One: An Unexpected Journey

- An Unexpected Party (Bilbo meets Thorin & company)
- Roast Mutton (Trolls)
- A Short Rest (Elrond and Rivendell)
- Over Hill And Under Hill (The goblins and the Goblin King)
- Riddles In The Dark (Bilbo discovers the ring of power and meets Gollum)
- Out Of The Frying Pan Into The Fire (Wargs, Goblins, burning trees, and Eagles' rescue)
- Queer Lodgings (Beorn)
- Flies And Spiders (Mirkwood and Spider Attack)

The first film would be quite linear, similar to Fellowship of the Ring (which also began in the Shire). An Unexpected Journey would follow Bilbo, Gandalf and the Dwarves as they begin their journey. Gandalf leaves just as they're about to enter Mirkwood Forest where Bilbo must do battle with the spiders. It's likely that we would get our first glimpse of Radagast the Brown around this time, as he would probably be Gandalf's first point of destination since Radagast lives on the western eaves of Mirkwood and is friends with Beorn. The film ends shortly after the spider battle when the dwarves are captured by the Wood Elves and Bilbo is left alone to fend for himself.

The Hobbit - Part Two: The Desolation of Smaug

- Barrels Out of Bond (The Elven King, escape from the Wood Elves)
- A Warm Welcome (arrival at Laketown)
- On The Doorstep (the ascent up Lonely Mountain, search for the secret door)
- Inside Information (Bilbo confronts Smaug)
- Fire And Water (destruction of Laketown and death of Smaug)

The second film would follow two story lines: one of course being Bilbo and the dwarves, while the other would explain where Gandalf went. The film would start out with Bilbo rescuing and reuniting with the dwarves by escaping from the Wood Elves and into barrels on the river, then continuing on their journey all the way to Lonely Mountain. Gandalf's story would obviously utilize the LOTR Appendices for extra material and contain a plot concerning the White Council, Dol Guldur and the Necromancer (Sauron). The film would end following the destruction of Laketown and the death of Smaug.

The Hobbit - Part Three: There And Back Again

- Not At Home (Thorin reclaims his treasure, Bilbo finds the Arkenstone)
- The Gathering Of The Clouds (Armies of Men and Elves appear and lay claim to Thorin's gold)
- A Thief In The Night (Bilbo sneaks away from Thorin to negotiate with the Bard and Elven King)
- The Clouds Burst (The Battle of Five Armies)
- The Return Journey (The aftermath and Thorin's death)
- The Last Stage (Back in Hobbiton)

The third film would focus on Thorin Oakenshield and the growing strain on his relationship with Bilbo as he prepares for battle to defend his reclaimed treasure. This could allow for flashback sequences derived from the LOTR Appendices concerning Durin's Folk (which includes the Battle of Azanulbizar) as Thorin may try to explain to Bilbo the nature of dwarves and why they would fight to protect what they consider rightfully theirs. We would also see the resolution of the White Council story line in which the Necromancer (Sauron) flees Dol Guldur. The film would climax with the Battle of Five Armies, mirroring the epic nature and scale of The Return of the King's battle sequences, and wind down with Bilbo's journey back home.

Breaking the trilogy down in this manner would give each of the three films an epic climax:

- Film One: Bilbo battling the spiders
- Film Two: The death of Smaug
- Film Three: The Battle of Five Armies

I swapped chapter 13 "Not At Home" with chapter 14 "Fire And Water," as technically the events in these chapters don't happen in chronological order and it obviously makes for a better climax at the end of film two. Chapter 13 deals with the dwarves and Bilbo hiding inside Lonely Mountain and wondering if Smaug will return, all the while not realizing that Smaug is already dead. Chapter 14 explains what happens to Smaug while the dwarves were hiding and waiting inside the mountain.

Oh, and if you haven't already guessed... I'm one of the crazies that thinks a trilogy could actually work... oh yeah, and one more thing... I'm also looking forward to the day when I can view back-to-back Middle-Earth trilogies as well!

I like how you've structured that. I can see it working.

Since you seem to be a bit of a Tolkien Geek, or at least moreso than myself, can you answer the question of whether or not the White Council driving Sauron out of Dol Guldur is likely to mean we'll see Galadriel in battle? (I haven't read all of the Appendixes yet.) I'm wondering how big of a role the White Council / Sauron conflict is going to play in either a two-parter or trio of films.

[Buddy Ackerman]

Originally Posted by lupinskitten

can you answer the question of whether or not the White Council driving Sauron out of Dol Guldur is likely to mean we'll see Galadriel in battle?

It was confirmed recently - at Comic-Con I think - that yes, we'll see Galadriel take part in battle. Whether that means her kicking someone in the face or something a bit more spiritual/magical remains to be seen. Either way I'm excited to see a powerful Elf queen such as herself in battle mode.

EDIT: from Philippa Boyens at the Comic-Con panel:

Galadriel, as you all know, is the most powerful being in Middle Earth, at the time. And we wanted to go in there and tell that story. We worked with Cate. We talked to her about the role. She did a phenomenal job. I was… I had my total geek-out moment when she stepped up. And, the battle of Dol Guldur. Let me just say that. It’s extraordinary. So she immediately brings a very powerful feminine energy into the film

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Dead By Shaun

Funny... I was just thinking about this the other night myself and have assembled my own thoughts on the subject which I'd like to share. I based my concepts off a few key points...

First off, I don't think a bridge film is likely, as there isn't a strong enough narrative and it would require Jackson and his team to invent too much material. It would make much more sense to grab various plot details from the Appendices and weave them into The Hobbit, rather then try to conceive an entirely new film based on the Appendices alone.

Secondly, Jackson recently admitted that he shot way more footage than he initially expected, which indicates to me that it's entirely possible that he could shift the break points in each of the films and create a third, simply by filming a couple more months next year and combining it with the footage he already has. Remember, he only just wrapped principal photography a couple weeks ago and is just now entering the post-production stage, so a complete edit of the first film likely does not exist yet, is only in a rough format, or is too long. The reason that talks with the studio right now regarding a third film are so critical is that a decision would need to be made sooner, rather than later, in order for Jackson to know how to properly edit and place the break point in the first film, should a third film be approved. I think it's highly likely that a decision about this will be reached in the next couple weeks.

Anyhow, with that out of the way here's what I came up with based on chapters from The Hobbit. I hope you enjoy...

[Show spoiler]The Hobbit - Part One: An Unexpected Journey

- An Unexpected Party (Bilbo meets Thorin & company)
- Roast Mutton (Trolls)
- A Short Rest (Elrond and Rivendell)
- Over Hill And Under Hill (The goblins and the Goblin King)
- Riddles In The Dark (Bilbo discovers the ring of power and meets Gollum)
- Out Of The Frying Pan Into The Fire (Wargs, Goblins, burning trees, and Eagles' rescue)
- Queer Lodgings (Beorn)
- Flies And Spiders (Mirkwood and Spider Attack)

The first film would be quite linear, similar to Fellowship of the Ring (which also began in the Shire). An Unexpected Journey would follow Bilbo, Gandalf and the Dwarves as they begin their journey. Gandalf leaves just as they're about to enter Mirkwood Forest where Bilbo must do battle with the spiders. It's likely that we would get our first glimpse of Radagast the Brown around this time, as he would probably be Gandalf's first point of destination since Radagast lives on the western eaves of Mirkwood and is friends with Beorn. The film ends shortly after the spider battle when the dwarves are captured by the Wood Elves and Bilbo is left alone to fend for himself.

The Hobbit - Part Two: The Desolation of Smaug

- Barrels Out of Bond (The Elven King, escape from the Wood Elves)
- A Warm Welcome (arrival at Laketown)
- On The Doorstep (the ascent up Lonely Mountain, search for the secret door)
- Inside Information (Bilbo confronts Smaug)
- Fire And Water (destruction of Laketown and death of Smaug)

The second film would follow two story lines: one of course being Bilbo and the dwarves, while the other would explain where Gandalf went. The film would start out with Bilbo rescuing and reuniting with the dwarves by escaping from the Wood Elves and into barrels on the river, then continuing on their journey all the way to Lonely Mountain. Gandalf's story would obviously utilize the LOTR Appendices for extra material and contain a plot concerning the White Council, Dol Guldur and the Necromancer (Sauron). I would surmise that we may see more back history on the town of Dale (especially since Jackson has commented in his VLOGs that its set construction rivals those built for LOTR), probably told by the Bard once the dwarves and Bilbo arrive in Laketown, and we would also be introduced to the controversial new character Tauriel, which would obviously be introduced in the hall of the Elven King. The film would end following the destruction of Laketown and the death of Smaug.

The Hobbit - Part Three: There And Back Again

- Not At Home (Thorin reclaims his treasure, Bilbo finds the Arkenstone)
- The Gathering Of The Clouds (Armies of Men and Elves appear and lay claim to Thorin's gold)
- A Thief In The Night (Bilbo sneaks away from Thorin to negotiate with the Bard and Elven King)
- The Clouds Burst (The Battle of Five Armies)
- The Return Journey (The aftermath and Thorin's death)
- The Last Stage (Back in Hobbiton)

The third film would focus on Thorin Oakenshield and the growing strain on his relationship with Bilbo as he prepares for battle to defend his reclaimed treasure. This could allow for flashback sequences derived from the LOTR Appendices concerning Durin's Folk (which includes the Battle of Azanulbizar) as Thorin may try to explain to Bilbo the nature of dwarves and why they would fight to protect what they consider rightfully theirs. We would also see the resolution of the White Council story line in which the Necromancer (Sauron) flees Dol Guldur. The film would climax with the Battle of Five Armies, mirroring the epic nature and scale of The Return of the King's battle sequences, and wind down with Bilbo's journey back home.

Breaking the trilogy down in this manner would give each of the three films an epic climax:

- Film One: Bilbo battling the spiders
- Film Two: The death of Smaug
- Film Three: The Battle of Five Armies

I swapped chapter 13 "Not At Home" with chapter 14 "Fire And Water," as technically the events in these chapters don't happen in chronological order and it obviously makes for a better climax at the end of film two. Chapter 13 deals with the dwarves and Bilbo hiding inside Lonely Mountain and wondering if Smaug will return, all the while not realizing that Smaug is already dead. Chapter 14 explains what happens to Smaug while the dwarves were hiding and waiting inside the mountain.

Oh, and if you haven't already guessed... I'm one of the crazies that thinks a trilogy could actually work... oh yeah, and one more thing... I'm also looking forward to the day when I can view back-to-back Middle-Earth trilogies as well!

Your conjecture seems to be about good as any, given the limited information that we have at this time. There are a few caveats.

[Show spoiler] The first, as WildWhelk points out, is that the first movie has been rumored to have the barrels out of bond scene. If that is true, the entire timeline of the second and third movies would have to be expanded and filled with auxiliary material.

In the publicity material, Jackson indicates that Cate Blanchett will be given an opportunity to shine as Galadriel, who he incorrectly identifies as the most powerful being in Middle-earth. Sauron and Gandalf had greater power, Elrond was potentially greater since his ring Vilya was the "mightiest" of the Elven rings, and Glorfindel by virtue of being reincarnated also may have had greater power (among others). That aside, does that mean that Jackson will use the extra footage opportunity to show Galadriel warning the elves of Eregion not to trust Sauron (as Annatar) when they forged the rings? Or will Galadriel and Celeborn be shown occupying Lorien after the departure of Amroth, etc.? Apparently there will be at least relatively extensive detail of the White Council and the ouster of Sauron, but how much additional "invented" material will Jackson and Boyens insert, since there is little said about this in Unfinished Tales? Also, do we get to see Galadriel's daughter Celebrian - her marriage to Elrond, her capture by orcs, etc. And of course, is her granddaughter Arwen involved (and do we get to see Arwen and Aragorn plight their troth at Cerin Amroth)? There was footage of Galadriel and Arwen that was excluded from 'Fellowship', so this would provide an excellent opportunity to use it. With all of the invented Elves that will be involved (Tauriel, etc.), do we actually get to see Elladan, Elrohir, Erestor, etc.? Will we get to see Galadriel distill the light of Earendil into the phial she eventually gives to Frodo, etc. My biggest concern is the magnitude of the invented material that has nothing to do with the story; there is plenty of "real" history to include.

Also, they will have to be careful to not portray Sauron physically, as they constrained his appearance to non-physicality by Saruman's comments in the Fellowship of the Ring movie (which did not correspond to the book).

But anyway, I enjoyed reading your speculation. It is nice reading comments that actually concern the story!

[lupinskitten]

Originally Posted by Buddy Ackerman

It was confirmed recently - at Comic-Con I think - that yes, we'll see Galadriel take part in battle. Whether that means her kicking someone in the face or something a bit more spiritual/magical remains to be seen. Either way I'm excited to see a powerful Elf queen such as herself in battle mode.

YES!!!

Either way, that'll be awesome... Galadriel is so cool, and so etheral, and so important to Tolkien, yet she is seen so little in action on film (other than her telepathic communications with Elrond, and her freak-out mode near the mirror) that she's so often underestimated by people. My mother's comment on her in general was, "She's... odd." So it'll be nice to see Galadriel play a larger role than she has thus far. (I'm excited to see how her friendship with Gandalf plays out in "The Hobbit," since really we didn't get to see them interact at all in LotR. She is sad that he has "fallen" -- I can't wait to see them interact.)

In the publicity material, Jackson indicates that Cate Blanchett will be given an opportunity to shine as Galadriel, who he incorrectly identifies as the most powerful being in Middle-earth. Sauron and Gandalf had greater power, Elrond was potentially greater since his ring Vilya was the "mightiest" of the Elven rings, and Glorfindel by virtue of being reincarnated also may have had greater power (among others).

I found that strange too -- but it may have just been a slip of the tongue. She is nowhere near Gandalf in terms of power, but isn't Galadriel higher than Elrond, despite his greater ring, merely because she is much, much older, of a purer bloodline, and initially lived in Valinor? She also appears to have greater abilities than Elrond, and cast far more awe amongst the Fellowship.

Also, do we get to see Galadriel's daughter Celebrian - her marriage to Elrond, her capture by orcs, etc. And of course, is her granddaughter Arwen involved (and do we get to see Arwen and Aragorn plight their troth at Cerin Amroth)? There was footage of Galadriel and Arwen that was excluded from 'Fellowship', so this would provide an excellent opportunity to use it.

I would LOVE that... but I rather doubt they will dig into that much history; much less show us any of Aragorn or Arwen (unless they plan to film that, since I don't think either actor has done any filming for them this time around -- wasn't Liv a bit upset that she wasn't asked to cameo?). I DO like the idea of using the footage between Galadriel and Arwen, though... yet it depends on what is in it, and if it would "work" in this much earlier timeline (I suspect it had to do with Galadriel expressing her own concerns about Arwen's intention to marry Aragorn).

(On that note, as an aside, I was a bit upset to discover some final footage from LotR: RotK never made it into the extended edition -- there were shots used in trailers of Arwen waking from her death-sleep-trace and flying into her father's arms that were quite touching, but apparently left on the cutting room floor. Alas.)

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by lupinskitten

isn't Galadriel higher than Elrond, despite his greater ring, merely because she is much, much older, of a purer bloodline, and initially lived in Valinor? She also appears to have greater abilities than Elrond, and cast far more awe amongst the Fellowship.

Galadriel is "higher" than Elrond, due to the fact that she witnessed the light of the Two Trees of Valinor, compared to Elrond who was born at the end of the First Age. As Tolkien states in a letter:

"She is the last remaining of the Great among the High Elves..." and "Galadriel was 'unstained': she had committed no evil deeds [she did not participate in the Kinslaying at Alqualonde, burning of the ships at Losgar, etc.]. She was an enemy of Feanor [the most powerful Elf in the First Age]."

Her power is based mostly on her wisdom, although she demonstrates physical power at the end of the Third Age when the Elves of Lothlorien attack Dol Guldur, whence "Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits".

Elrond's potentially greater power comes from the fact that his ring is deemed "the mightiest of the three", although we don't know to what extent. Although he is not a "pure" Elf, his lineage contains the greatest members of the races of Men and Elves. His father was Earendil, who destroyed Ancalagon the Black, the mightest of Melkor's evil creatures. His great-grandfather was Beren, probably the most powerful of Men. He is also descended from Luthien, and her mother Melian who was a Maia [one of the "gods"].

As to 'who was actually more powerful' is like splitting straws, but counter to Boyen's or Jackson's statement, Galadriel was certainly not more powerful than Sauron or the wizards (e.g. Gandalf and Saruman).