The Hobbit Trilogy Discussion Thread

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

Elessar Elendil was the king of Gondor and a descendant of Numenor as well, that didn't prevent the One Ring from corrupting him to his death.

You might be thinking of Denethor? Elendil was the faithful Numenorean and ancestor of Aragorn, who sailed to Middle-earth with his sons Isildur and Anarion (while Ar-Pharazon and the "bad" Numenoreans attacked Valinor - not a good idea), and eventually formed the Last Alliance with Gil-galad to defeat Sauron.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

You might be thinking of Denethor? Elendil was the faithful Numenorean and ancestor of Aragorn, who sailed to Middle-earth with his sons Isildur and Anarion (while Ar-Pharazon and the "bad" Numenoreans attacked Valinor - not a good idea), and eventually formed the Last Alliance with Gil-galad to defeat Sauron.

Ah see, learned something new today, for some reason I thought Elendil was Isildur. Silly memory playing tricks on me. Why was Isildur so corruptible anyway? He was supposed to be a good man and a leader of Gondor.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

Why would being close to Mithrandir be cause for scorn from a good guy?

Denethor knew that he was in danger of losing his rule to Aragorn, the true King of Gondor, and that Gandalf was aiding Aragorn to that end. So as his dad, he didn't want Faramir hanging around Gandalf.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

Denethor knew that he was in danger of losing his rule to Aragorn, the true King of Gondor, and that Gandalf was aiding Aragorn to that end. So as his dad, he didn't want Faramir hanging around Gandalf.

Authority is not given you to deny the Return of the King, Steward!
Gandalf wasn't trying to hurt Denethor, he was just doing what he had to do to try to save Middle Earth.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

Ah see, learned something new today, for some reason I thought Elendil was Isildur. Silly memory playing tricks on me. Why was Isildur so corruptible anyway? He was supposed to be a good man and a leader of Gondor.

Isildur was your "basic good guy". But the influence of the Ring, which was the physical manifestation of Evil, was too much for him to overcome. The same thing happened to Frodo, who was also unquestionably good, and it might have happened to Galadriel and Gandalf, had they chosen to take it (and why they refused when the Ring was offered to them).

[threefiftyrocket]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

Other than Aragorn, Faramir was the individual that had the "truest" Numenorean blood. For all intents and purposes, he was incorruptible. The internal debate he struggled with in the movie never would have happened; as soon as he found out Frodo's purpose he would have sent him on his way.

But wasn't Isildur Numenorian? He was corrupted by the power of the ring and thus did not cast it into the fires of Mount Doom when he had the chance. Or am I looking at that wrong?

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

Isildur was your "basic good guy". But the influence of the Ring, which was the physical manifestation of Evil, was too much for him to overcome. The same thing happened to Frodo, who was also unquestionably good, and it might have happened to Galadriel and Gandalf, had they chosen to take it (and why they refused when the Ring was offered to them).

I do wonder if through Sauron's Ring that Galadriel would've become powerful enough to rule Middle Earth. I did like her decision to deny the Ring and return to Valinor.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

Denethor knew that he was in danger of losing his rule to Aragorn, the true King of Gondor, and that Gandalf was aiding Aragorn to that end. So as his dad, he didn't want Faramir hanging around Gandalf.

In the books there was almost a constant battle of wills between Denethor and Gandalf. I'm not sure whether Denethor favoring Boromir caused Faramir to be closer to Gandalf, or whether Faramir being close to Gandalf made his father favor his older brother.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by radagast

In the books there was almost a constant battle of wills between Denethor and Gandalf. I'm not sure whether Denethor favoring Boromir caused Faramir to be closer to Gandalf, or whether Faramir being close to Gandalf made his father favor his older brother.

Good call, never thought of it that way, it was probably meant to be vague to get people to think about it, much like how Tom Bombadil is quite vague. Faramir just didn't strike me as being the natural leader or warrior that his brother was, that probably had something to do with it.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by threefiftyrocket

But wasn't Isildur Numenorian? He was corrupted by the power of the ring and thus did not cast it into the fires of Mount Doom when he had the chance. Or am I looking at that wrong?

The Numenoreans were not pure in heart. IIRC doesn't the Silmarillion have something about the failure of Numenor and the Valar's displeasure with them?

[Diesel]

Holy off topic Batman!

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

I do wonder if through Sauron's Ring that Galadriel would've become powerful enough to rule Middle Earth. I did like her decision to deny the Ring and return to Valinor.

I think the movie's dialogue was pretty close to the books when Galadriel struggled with the temptation to accept the Ring from Frodo. The visuals were, I think, out of character with what I felt was happening.

To answer your question: Yes Galadriel would have had substantial power wielding the Ring. And as such the Ring would have had substantial power over her in corrupting her character. I think that knowing the Valar, that she knew that eventually they might move against her if she had taken the Ring.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Diesel

Holy off topic Batman!

This thread has become a refuge for people who want to discuss the stories and not argue about PQ and AQ of the impending Blu-ray release.

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by radagast

This thread has become a refuge for people who want to discuss the stories and not argue about PQ and AQ of the impending Blu-ray release.

Isn't that what the LotR group is for


Seeing as this say The Hobbit and all

[Batman1980]

I always wanted the movies to cover Gollum more than they did, he was around for about half a century after all, guess they'll get to that in the Hobbit films. Andy Serkis' portrayal of Gollum was quite brilliant.

[threefiftyrocket]

at least there's no discussion about the screenshots of this movie

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

I always wanted the movies to cover Gollum more than he did, he was around for about half a century after all, guess they'll get to that in the Hobbit films. Andy Serkis' portrayal of Gollum was quite brilliant.

There should be plenty of extra time with two films to further develop his character. I am looking forward to seeing the riddle game he has with Bilbo.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by threefiftyrocket

at least there's no discussion about the screenshots of this movie

Just wait.

[threefiftyrocket]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

Just wait.

"Yeah, this movie looks like crap!!! The screenshots show it!!!"

"Ummm... it hasn't been filmed yet..."

"I don't care... AVS forum already has screenshots and they are DNR'd TO DEATH!!!"

[mjbethancourt]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

Oh and wiki reminded me that Faramir falls in love with Eowyn of Rohan, something that doesn't come up in the films.

They hook up in the extended edition. It's subtle, but it happens.
In the theatric cut, they are together at Aragorn's wedding.

Originally Posted by threefiftyrocket

Tom Bombadil is "incorruptable" because he has no desire to dominate. He is happy, and carefree. He is the "master" yet he owns nothing. The One Ring only has influence over those who desire to use its power, whether for good or ill. Tom pretty much doesn't care.

The ring is more insidious than that. To each person, the ring promises their deepest desire, so even if your desires are noble, it will work through them and enslave you. It doesn't necessarily have to be power or dominion... after all, what did the ring offer Gollum? The ability to hide, steal, and cheat death; it enabled his reclusiveness and offered him a false solution to his innate character flaws: weakness, fear, pathological self-centeredness and cruelty. The ring could just as easily promise Tom the means to be left alone.
He is obviously just a power higher than that of the ring.