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Old 12-17-2014, 10:18 PM   #6841
toddly6666 toddly6666 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaius Marius View Post
Actually, I think a comparison between the Hobbit and the Prequels is a good one.

Like the OT, LotR was well recieved by fans and critics. However, the Hobbit Trilogy (Really? Did it need a trilogy?) is more like the PT. More empasis on spectacle than story. Much more flawed than the original trilogy (SW or LotR) and not as universally appreciated.

One difference, though. I liked TPM and ROTS, and don't care for the Hobbit movies
It's not a good comparison because there are plenty of folks, such as myself, that love the Hobbit movies and the Hobbit movies are more smoothly connected (tone, characters, special effects, cinematography) than the Star Wars prequels to the OT. I love the Star Wars OT but cant stand the prequels. The Lord of the Rings movies are obviously better movies than the Hobbit movies, but I still love all six films. The Hobbit was always a fun book compared to The Lord of the Rings books. Jackson actually gave the cinematic adaptation more depth. I dont see any problem with that. Peter Jackson certainly developed all the characters that needed to be developed - Bilbo, Gollum, Smaug. Everyone else were extra bonuses - Thorin, Gandalf, legolas, Legolas's dad, elf girl, Kili, Bard, the rest of the dwarves, Beorn, Azog.

Last edited by toddly6666; 12-17-2014 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 12-18-2014, 08:24 AM   #6842
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Warner Bros. reports that The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies earned $11.2 million from Tuesday evening shows. That's quite a bit more than the $8.8 million that The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug posted from evening shows on Thursday, December 12, 2013.
http://pro.boxoffice.com/latest-news...-tuesday-debut
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Old 12-18-2014, 08:26 AM   #6843
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Good previous sequels always help, that's why I'm a little worried about Mockingjay Part 2 lol
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Old 12-18-2014, 08:29 AM   #6844
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Originally Posted by Falaskan View Post
Good previous sequels always help, that's why I'm a little worried about Mockingjay Part 2 lol
WB also did a great job marketing this one as an epic battle movie which is an easier sell than Desolation of Smaug.
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Old 12-18-2014, 08:41 AM   #6845
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Originally Posted by Cook View Post
From a member at Superherohype:



Can't believe Jackson shot the
[Show spoiler]funeral
and then cut it. That's not a scene you save for the extended cut. It belongs in every cut of the film.
Hey that's me!
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:06 PM   #6846
Darth Marcus Darth Marcus is offline
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It's pretty crazy how these reviews are practically split on RT. It's either the best of The Hobbit trilogy, or the worst of the entire Lord of the Rings franchise. I'll see for myself on Tuesday!
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:05 PM   #6847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddly6666 View Post
It's not a good comparison because there are plenty of folks, such as myself, that love the Hobbit movies and the Hobbit movies are more smoothly connected (tone, characters, special effects, cinematography) than the Star Wars prequels to the OT. I love the Star Wars OT but cant stand the prequels. The Lord of the Rings movies are obviously better movies than the Hobbit movies, but I still love all six films. The Hobbit was always a fun book compared to The Lord of the Rings books. Jackson actually gave the cinematic adaptation more depth. I dont see any problem with that. Peter Jackson certainly developed all the characters that needed to be developed - Bilbo, Gollum, Smaug. Everyone else were extra bonuses - Thorin, Gandalf, legolas, Legolas's dad, elf girl, Kili, Bard, the rest of the dwarves, Beorn, Azog.
I guess I'm just the opposite. I don't like the Hobbit movies, but find the SW prequels watchable. In both cases, the OT is better
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:19 PM   #6848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Marcus View Post
It's pretty crazy how these reviews are practically split on RT. It's either the best of The Hobbit trilogy, or the worst of the entire Lord of the Rings franchise. I'll see for myself on Tuesday!
What's doubly weird is that the British press in general have really taken to it, with a slew of 4/5 ratings, even from some usually hard-to-please critics. I think it's odd because they roundly slated Mockingjay for being only part of a film, and yet we're in the same situation with Five Armies because it's simply one long ROTJ-esque third act - but I guess the difference is that the third act is the part of the film that delivers the goods, and in this case it was enough to get the critics purring.

Can't wait to see it, I'll have to wait another couple of weeks before it hits my local indie though. Gives me plenty of time to rewatch Journey and Desolation.
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Old 12-18-2014, 04:34 PM   #6849
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It's interesting how the RT rating plummeted once the American reviews came in, it was doing pretty well before that. Why do you Americans hate The Hobbit?
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Old 12-18-2014, 05:44 PM   #6850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Marcus View Post
It's pretty crazy how these reviews are practically split on RT. It's either the best of The Hobbit trilogy, or the worst of the entire Lord of the Rings franchise. I'll see for myself on Tuesday!
I thought DOS was the worst of the entire franchise. Easy.
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Old 12-18-2014, 05:57 PM   #6851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Marcus View Post
It's pretty crazy how these reviews are practically split on RT. It's either the best of The Hobbit trilogy, or the worst of the entire Lord of the Rings franchise. I'll see for myself on Tuesday!
It is the worst of the franchise, in my opinion, but there is still a good time to be had. When your franchise consists of three masterpieces, 'worst of the franchise' loses a lot of its muster.
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Old 12-18-2014, 06:26 PM   #6852
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
What's doubly weird is that the British press in general have really taken to it, with a slew of 4/5 ratings, even from some usually hard-to-please critics. I think it's odd because they roundly slated Mockingjay for being only part of a film, and yet we're in the same situation with Five Armies because it's simply one long ROTJ-esque third act - but I guess the difference is that the third act is the part of the film that delivers the goods, and in this case it was enough to get the critics purring.

Can't wait to see it, I'll have to wait another couple of weeks before it hits my local indie though. Gives me plenty of time to rewatch Journey and Desolation.
It's really odd how many of these "half" films play out. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part 2 is sitting at a stellar 98%, and that's half of a film. That's why I don't necessarily buy into the "half of a film" criticism that automatically makes a film bad. It was half of a film, but it was also an extremely satisfying conclusion to a long-running series. So I'm automatically ignoring those whose only criticism of the film is that it's an incomplete movie. I am skeptical though because many other negative reviews talk about pacing and poor character arcs and the overbearing assault of cgi. But, to be honest, those sound like problems the first two films had, and I still had a good time. I'm looking forward to it, but in no way am I expecting anything close to the caliber of The Lord of the Rings films (duh).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich View Post
I thought DOS was the worst of the entire franchise. Easy.
I thought Desolation of Smaug was an improvement over An Unexpected Journey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandalorian View Post
It is the worst of the franchise, in my opinion, but there is still a good time to be had. When your franchise consists of three masterpieces, 'worst of the franchise' loses a lot of its muster.
There aren't many franchises that can reach the heights of the The Lord of the Rings trilogy. And I think my unreasonably high expectations led to my initial disappointment with An Unexpected Journey. On subsequent watches I have really enjoyed the film, and it is in no way a bad film. In fact I will say I think it is a good film, but nowhere close to the revelation that was The Lord of the Rings. I still think An Unexpected Journey is the weakest of the franchise so far, but come Tuesday that opinion may or may not change.
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Old 12-18-2014, 06:32 PM   #6853
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Originally Posted by Darth Marcus View Post
I thought Desolation of Smaug was an improvement over An Unexpected Journey.

There aren't many franchises that can reach the heights of the The Lord of the Rings trilogy. And I think my unreasonably high expectations led to my initial disappointment with An Unexpected Journey. On subsequent watches I have really enjoyed the film, and it is in no way a bad film. In fact I will say I think it is a good film, but nowhere close to the revelation that was The Lord of the Rings. I still think An Unexpected Journey is the weakest of the franchise so far, but come Tuesday that opinion may or may not change.
I definitely agree. For reference, here are the ratings I posted in BOTFA's thread after I saw it: AUJ - 3.5/5, DOS - 4/5, and BOTFA - 3/5
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Old 12-18-2014, 06:34 PM   #6854
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I definitely agree. For reference, here are the ratings I posted in BOTFA's thread after I saw it: AUJ - 3.5/5, DOS - 4/5, and BOTFA - 3/5
My ratings of the first two films mirror yours. Although I'm hoping I enjoy Battle of the Five Armies more than you did.
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Old 12-18-2014, 09:17 PM   #6855
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Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich View Post
I thought DOS was the worst of the entire franchise. Easy.
Completely agree. Don't even know if I can bring myself to go see the third one in theaters. I still think there were some cool scenes, but some of it is actually boring, and overall was very mediocre.

Fellowship of the Ring was perfection - the Hobbit films aren't even in the same class.
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Old 12-18-2014, 09:49 PM   #6856
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I'd love to see a Trilogy Trailer similar to what they did with The Lord of the Rings.
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Old 12-18-2014, 09:49 PM   #6857
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Originally Posted by Gaius Marius View Post
Actually, I think a comparison between the Hobbit and the Prequels is a good one.

Like the OT, LotR was well recieved by fans and critics. However, the Hobbit Trilogy (Really? Did it need a trilogy?) is more like the PT. More empasis on spectacle than story. Much more flawed than the original trilogy (SW or LotR) and not as universally appreciated.

One difference, though. I liked TPM and ROTS, and don't care for the Hobbit movies
appreciating different tastes and subjectivity etc etc.

If the Hobbit were released 12 years ago, I wonder what the reception would be?. I believe the films would still be seen as a technical and cinematic landmark. but we have sure been spoiled since these times and perhaps The Hobbit hasn't quite stepped out of the shadow of the first 3 movies, which may be disappointing for some aspects, upon also faithfulness to material.

I think these are being judged by what is currently on offer on the silver screen as well ( Marvel line, Batman) I feel our tolerance level have been refined, although I believe these (Hobbit) films aren't as emotionally resonant as the LoTRs 3, the quality of acting is remarkable given the subject matter (fantasy) imho well ahead of Thor 2 as an instance, the acting saves a great deal of the films for me. The delivery of lines in Star Wars however still make me cringe. I do infact like the PT, esp RotS

The Hobbit films are top of the line films for me.
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Old 12-21-2014, 06:24 PM   #6858
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$90M five-day gross. Very good.

http://pro.boxoffice.com/latest-news...-with-families

Already up to $335M worldwide. This one should have enough steam to hit $1 billion.
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Old 12-21-2014, 08:39 PM   #6859
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Completely agree. Don't even know if I can bring myself to go see the third one in theaters. I still think there were some cool scenes, but some of it is actually boring, and overall was very mediocre.

Fellowship of the Ring was perfection - the Hobbit films aren't even in the same class.
Thank God Peter Jackson did the Hobbit films otherwise we'd have endless internet crying bemoaning the notion "if only Jackson had done it." Well, he did and for what it's worth I enjoyed all the Hobbit films although I do think they should have wrapped the whole thing up with two films. After a while the CGI action becomes a bit numbing in the third entry. I was observing the effects instead of being invested in the action. And having Bilbo sidelined for much of the film is not really a good thing. But I guess that's a problem with the source material. Yeah. Two movies would have been plenty.
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Old 12-22-2014, 06:53 PM   #6860
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Dear Peter Jackson,

Some thoughts about the LOTR trilogy, AUJ, and DoS, pertinent to how I feel about the way this saga has wrapped up:
[Show spoiler]
You and I have journeyed far together. You brought Frodo's task to destroy the One Ring to life a mere decade ago, and with such verve and respect that myself and the world over could not turn a blind eye and fail to hail such an inspiring, thrilling, and (mostly) faithful adaptation. In those days it was clear your appreciation and understanding of Tolkien's most beloved work was paramount, and although some liberties were taken to accommodate the film medium, those liberties could be mostly forgiven in the wake of such illuminating entertainment.

Today is a far different day, and the lens I view your Middle Earth through now is not the same as when all was good and new. Time appears to have jaded your approach to the wonders of Middle Earth.

While some berated An Unexpected Journey for being slow, plodding, and somewhat uneventful, it still held much of the magic of yesteryear. Many great moments were found, and liberties, though present, were for the most part welcomed. Perhaps some moments in this first leg of the journey were a portent of what was to come, with Dwarves and Hobbit alike being immune to falling rocks, and Goblin Kings being so inept and vulnerable to attack by an aging wizard that one slice of a sword offers a silly comedic moment and death with little true peril. I held out hope here, however, as Thorin truly suffers in the mouth of Azog's Albino Warg.

Desolation of Smaug, in its extended cut, also held moments of magic, though it fell victim to much of the same shortcomings, peril-wise, as An Unexpected Journey. While there were some true moments of dread, found in Mirkwood and Smaug's Lair, there were moments of silly nonsense, particularly in the Forge of Erebor with an ineffectual dragon, but also with liberties taken by unnecessary fabricated characters such as Tauriel, cheapening elvish magic and Arwen's importance in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. I still held out hope, even in this, because in the extended cut you brought us a better sense of pacing, more interactions with actual book characters such as Beorn and Thrain, and I couldn't help but hope you would do the rest of the book justice with proper emotional heft to go along with the bloody conflict that was soon to shake Middle Earth after its long peace.



My lamentation of five armies clashing as noise instead of with symphonic, calamitous rhythm and purpose:
Do not read if you have not seen The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies. Massive spoilers follow here.
[Show spoiler]
After such a long journey, traveling through mountain, forest, valley, river, lake, and town, there was but some small matters to wrap up. A dragon threatened a town on the water. Armies of all manner awaited the opportunity to strike at Erebor should the threat of the dragon be eliminated. The characters we have traveled with required proper sendoff and emotional moments.

Certainly, the dragon threatens Laketown, burning and pillaging at whim. However, the witty, sadistic dragon I had hoped for instead functioned more as a flamethrower than a character. To this end, could Smaug not have tormented the denizens of Laketown a bit before reducing it to cinders and ash? A simple "Flee, flee for your lives! I will find you no matter where you hide and devour you as sheep." would have been very effective.

Certainly, the hero destroys the dragon, though in perhaps the most ridiculous way possible and within just a few moments. Smaug is further cheapened as a complete imbecile, ignoring the fact that the one weapon that CAN pierce his hide is pointed at him (and don't say he doesn't know what it is, because he had many of them fired at him the last time men had strength).

Certainly, Dol Goldur falls, but why does Galadriel appear so weak at particular moments throughout? It feels rather convenient that she falls to the ground weakened while the men (including the aged Saruman) fight it out amongst the Nazgul. While she may cast out Sauron from Dol Goldur, her appearance here felt very highly inconsistent, cycling between frail elf maiden and "beautiful and terrible as the dawn" elf queen.

A few more scenes before Kili and co. arrive from Laketown's ruins would have been nice, showing Thorin beginning the descent into broody madness. Certainly, we see him already in the throes of "dragon sickness", but this portion felt rushed and there was not much of a transition between Thorin just after Smaug left, and Thorin as he appears for the majority of the film.

Alfrid was funny...until you overplayed the joke. Enough is enough, and too much is superfluous. There's only so many times you can play the "evil crony wants to leave the cripples behind and snatch up all the gold" card before the joke wears thin. It also leaves less time for actual, meaningful moments between the characters we actually give a hoot about. Where's Bilbo making jokes? Does he have no other interactions with the dwarves aside Balin and Thorin at this stage?

You wasted a golden opportunity to show us a new, ingenious dwarven method for taking down giant trolls (trolls which magically were not affected by the sun here, despite those a couple movies back...but I digress). How convenient that instead of the dwarves being shown for their fighting prowess (aside amazing helmless headbutts courtesy of Dain the CGIronfoot), arrows magically appear and render these monstrosities inert, a victim of the incredibly rapid pacing this film suffers from. Oh, and you also let the elves take center stage again over the dwarves by showing us an awesome phalanx setup, then having the elves just leap right over that and completely invalidate the phalanx altogether.

Building on that note, for all the sound and noise of battle, as the film progresses the battle itself becomes almost a side-note. We barely see any of it after Thorin and companions chase after Azog. Even when Beorn arrives and becomes a one-bear wrecking crew, we get to enjoy that for all of 2 seconds before cutting back to the much smaller, separate conflict with Azog and his minions. I found myself surprised the battle was over when it did end, because there wasn't much focus on it once we got to the smaller encounters. For all the buildup, it really felt like we didn't get to see the alliance of elves, men, eagles, and others triumph.

Bilbo doesn't put on the Ring as he falls unconscious, or just before, which was ludicrously stupid (and completely opposite the book as well). There is no reason why Bilbo should have remained alive with everything that was going on all around him while he was unconscious in plain sight. It's not like the enemy can't see you're still breathing. Also, isn't Sting, Bilbo's sword, supposed to glow blue when orcs are about? Did that happen and I just missed it, or did you guys forget that important detail in post-production?

Why does Legolas have to kill Bolg? Aside their encounter in Desolation of Smaug, I would think Thorin would have a lot more reason to avenge Kili here. Then again, we can't really escape this sodding love triangle situation you created, so because Bolg knocks Tauriel around, you shoehorn Legolas in as the protector to keep this isosceles madness in play. Whatever the reasoning, it's less effective on an emotional level, because Legolas has no give-a-hoot for Kili, and actually should almost be thrilled that the third leg in the bloody triangle is dead. Aside protecting Tauriel (who falls into traditional damsel-in-distress mode) and his previously bloody nose, he has no dog in this fight.

While it is perhaps bittersweet to see Azog and Thorin impale each other, could this not have been filmed in such a way that Azog maintains the victory over Thorin, begins gloating, and then Beorn achieves his sweet revenge? To me, that would have felt so much more satisfying to see than an "Oh look, we're both impaled. Let's die in each other's arms." moment. Alternately, Dain could slaughter Azog, as he does in the LotR Appendices.

I thoroughly enjoyed Thranduil's reversal of opinion with Tauriel, and I mean that with as much sarcasm as possible. "It's not real love, what you feel for that dwarf." 20 minutes pass... "Wait, wait, you're crying. Okay, it was totally real love. Just stop crying, it makes me uncomfortable."

Where is Thorin's funeral? Where is the peace made with Thranduil as he lays the Arkenstone and Orcrist to rest with the King Under The Mountain? These are the moments, the payoff we were hungering for this entire trilogy. This was the supposed reason we needed three gigantic films for a 300 page book, because you, Mr. Jackson, wanted to do the source material justice, or so you said, and you wanted to interweave other aspects of Middle Earth into the tale.

Where then do our characters find themselves at the end of the journey? We certainly know Bilbo goes home, but Thorin has no funeral, Balin doesn't begin his efforts to reclaim Moria, and what of Laketown's residents? What of Beorn? What of Thranduil's gems of starlight (does he ever reclaim them)? The entire ending here felt rushed to the point my head nearly spun as I realized the credits were rolling. I know that you received a lot of flak for The Return of the King taking some time to wrap up, but gee whiz, was it that bad that we couldn't achieve some closure for the characters we've come to appreciate over the course of this adventure?


The pacing of this entire film was altogether too fast. Every moment leading into each other moment felt like it was over too soon, and the next moment felt like it didn't last long enough, or it was so conveniently arranged as to last exactly as little time as possible. I'll be the first to say that judicious editing is necessary, but when your fantasy film's pacing is most aptly compared to the Fast and the Furious franchise (where such pacing actually makes sense), perhaps you overdid it.

I could perhaps find more to come to grips with here, but just as my head hurt watching it, my head hurts reliving this last leg of your trilogy, Mr. Jackson. I can only hope that the extended edition brings some sanity to the proceedings here, and you give us the moments and closure that we, the audience, want to see from the characters we know and love. As it stands, not only was this last venture into Middle Earth unsatisfying, it is the only one that has left me weary and with a bad taste in my mouth.

Last edited by Taikero; 12-23-2014 at 09:17 PM.
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