The Hobbit Trilogy Discussion Thread

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by pj_campbell

Me too! Hopefully this turns out to be a perfect series of five movies with LOTR

At this point, with all of the crap we've had to go through just to get these on the ground, I'd settle for really good, perfect would just be icing on the cake.

[MorgolKing]

Originally Posted by Bageara

Saruman is in the Hobbit movie? Hes not in the book is he?

Not sure if he's in the book, but he will be in one of the two movies, if not both. They're expanding on the book material to "fill in" what happens between The Hobbit and The LOTR. This material comes from other sources of Tolkien; Saruman the White and Radghast the Brown will be both be included.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by MorgolKing

Not sure if he's in the book, but he will be in one of the two movies, if not both. They're expanding on the book material to "fill in" what happens between The Hobbit and The LOTR. This material comes from other sources of Tolkien; Saruman the White and Radghast the Brown will be both be included.

Hopefully Radagast will do more than take leisurely strolls through the forest and converse with its inhabitants, want them to show him collaborating with Gandalf, something not seen in LoTR films.

[Bageara]

Originally Posted by MorgolKing

Not sure if he's in the book, but he will be in one of the two movies, if not both. They're expanding on the book material to "fill in" what happens between The Hobbit and The LOTR. This material comes from other sources of Tolkien; Saruman the White and Radghast the Brown will be both be included.

of course yeah its not just the Hobbit but a "fill in" too

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

Hopefully Radagast will do more than take leisurely strolls through the forest and converse with its inhabitants, want them to show him collaborating with Gandalf, something not seen in LoTR films.

was it Radagast who sent the eagle to rescue Gandalf from Sarumans tower?

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Bageara

of course yeah its not just the Hobbit but a "fill in" too



was it Radagast who sent the eagle to rescue Gandalf from Sarumans tower?

According to Grand Bob yes, of course we don't see anything about that in the movie, you just see him whispering to a butterfly?

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Bageara

of course yeah its not just the Hobbit but a "fill in" too

was it Radagast who sent the eagle to rescue Gandalf from Sarumans tower?

Saruman and Radagast are members of the White Council (as are Gandalf, Galadriel, Celeborn, Elrond, and Cirdan, and perhaps Thranduil, who is Legolas' father). In the Hobbit, after visiting Beorn, Gandalf departs from Bilbo and the dwarves to attend the council to debate about what is to be done with Sauron, who occupies Dol Guldur in southern Mirkwood. Although not in the book, the inclusion of Radagast, Galadriel, et al in the movie surely indicates this event will happen in the movie. Gandalf was rescued by the eagle in Fellowship of the Ring because he spoke to Radagast before traveling to see Saruman at Isengard. Radagast asked the eagles for their aid to keep an eye on the Ringwraiths and as a result, the eagles rescued Gandalf after they observed him imprisoned on top of Orthanc.

[Walts Ghost]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

At this point, with all of the crap we've had to go through just to get these on the ground, I'd settle for really good, perfect would just be icing on the cake.

True, very true. I'm hoping for perfect, but really good would be ok too

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

Saruman and Radagast are members of the White Council (as are Gandalf, Galadriel, Celeborn, Elrond, and Cirdan, and perhaps Thranduil, who is Legolas' father). In the Hobbit, after visiting Beorn, Gandalf departs from Bilbo and the dwarves to attend the council to debate about what is to be done with Sauron, who occupies Dol Guldur in southern Mirkwood. Although not in the book, the inclusion of Radagast, Galadriel, et al in the movie surely indicates this event will happen in the movie. Gandalf was rescued by the eagle in Fellowship of the Ring because he spoke to Radagast before traveling to see Saruman at Isengard. Radagast asked the eagles for their aid to keep an eye on the Ringwraiths and as a result, the eagles rescued Gandalf after they observed him imprisoned on top of Orthanc.

Including the White Council driving Sauron from Dol Guldur in Southern Mirkwood, in The Hobbit movie, would add more action scenes and special effects. The irony is that Radagast was only mentioned in The Hobbit book, while in The Fellowship of the Ring book, Radagast actually appears and speaks to Gandalf.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by radagast

Including the White Council driving Sauron from Dol Guldur in Southern Mirkwood, in The Hobbit movie, would add more action scenes and special effects. The irony is that Radagast was only mentioned in The Hobbit book, while in The Fellowship of the Ring book, Radagast actually appears and speaks to Gandalf.

If Jackson does this right, it is an aspect of the movie that could make up for misinterpretation of parts of Lord of the Rings. I (for one) would like to see more of Radagast, Celeborn, and other characters and events of that time period when Tolkien had not developed the story beyond a children's tale. Two movies would also present an opportunity to portray the imprisonment of Thrain and the taking of the dwarf ring in Dol Guldur (which was the actual motivation for the events of The Hobbit), the death of the White Tree of Gondor, etc.

[thelittleprince]

Originally Posted by Josh

Wrong Freeman!

Hehe. That was hilarious!

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

If Jackson does this right, it is an aspect of the movie that could make up for misinterpretation of parts of Lord of the Rings. I (for one) would like to see more of Radagast, Celeborn, and other characters and events of that time period when Tolkien had not developed the story beyond a children's tale. Two movies would also present an opportunity to portray the imprisonment of Thrain and the taking of the dwarf ring in Dol Guldur (which was the actual motivation for the events of The Hobbit), the death of the White Tree of Gondor, etc.

I had forgotten they were after a dwarf ring and not just Smaug, wow. Hoping all of this makes its way into the movies, could near LoTR awesomeness levels in that case.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Stormcrow

I had forgotten they were after a dwarf ring and not just Smaug, wow. Hoping all of this makes its way into the movies, could near LoTR awesomeness levels in that case.

It is hard to guess the degree of "seriousness" that Jackson will infuse into the movie; the possibilities will be immense with two movies. One can be fairly certain that having portrayed the elves in LotR, he will not have them singing "Tra-la-lally" when Bilbo and the dwarves arrive. However, it will be interesting to see how much material outside of the book he incorporates. Gandalf's motivation to get Thorin to go on the quest (and the White Council) was to prevent Sauron and the Ringwraiths from having a stronghold in the north to launch attacks on Lorien and Rivendell. His encounter of Thrain in of Dol Guldur led to the acquisition of the map, key, and knowledge of the dwarf ring, which unfortunately he did not pass on to the dwarves. As Gloin later explains in LotR, Balin established the doomed dwarf colony in Moria partly in an attempt to reacquire it.

[Bageara]

So if the first film is the Hobbit and the second is a "fill in" where is the material coming from for the fill in? are there any writings of some events that might of happened between the Hobbit and LotR in Tolkiens other books?

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Bageara

So if the first film is the Hobbit and the second is a "fill in" where is the material coming from for the fill in? are there any writings of some events that might of happened between the Hobbit and LotR in Tolkiens other books?

The fill-in material is scattered throughout Tolkien's works as he was writing supporting material for "The Silmarillion" (his 50 year labor of love). However, a good place to start is "The Quest of Erebor", which can be found in Unfinished Tales (page 321) and also in The Annotated Hobbit as Appendix A. Tolkien wrote this story after finishing Lord of the Rings as an effort to tie the two stories together. A brief summary of events occurring during that time period may be found in Appendix B of Lord of the Rings, which is called "The Tale of Years".

[Bageara]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

The fill-in material is scattered throughout Tolkien's works as he was writing supporting material for "The Silmarillion" (his 50 year labor of love). However, a good place to start is "The Quest of Erebor", which can be found in Unfinished Tales (page 321) and also in The Annotated Hobbit as Appendix A. Tolkien wrote this story after finishing Lord of the Rings as an effort to tie the two stories together. A brief summary of events occurring during that time period may be found in Appendix B of Lord of the Rings, which is called "The Tale of Years".

Thanks. ive been meaning to read up on middle earth lore for years now i will definately be taking this time before the release of the Hobbit to do so.

Tell me, just out of interest is there any writings that go into more detail about the Balrog? its something that fascinates me

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Bageara

Tell me, just out of interest is there any writings that go into more detail about the Balrog? its something that fascinates me

Balrogs (Sindarin Elvish for "Demons of Might") are described in further detail in the Silmarillion, where many existed in the First Age. Perhaps the best short description of the one encountered in Fellowship of the Ring is given by Tolkien in his Letters:

"The Balrogs, of whom the whips were the chief weapons, were primeval spirits of destroying fire, chief servants of the primeval Dark Power [Morgoth] of the First Age. They were supposed to have been destroyed in the overthrow of Thangorodrim, his fortress in the North. But it is here found (there is usually a hang-over especially of evil from one age to another) that one had escaped and taken refuge under the [Misty] mountains. It is observable that only [Legolas] knows what the thing is - and obviously Gandalf".

I wouldn't anticipate seeing any Balrogs in "The Hobbit", unless Jackson is thorough enough to trace the story back to the root of all of the troubles of Middle earth - which is the elf Feanor (creator of the Silmarils), who was killed shortly after arriving in Middle earth by Balrogs at Dor Daedeloth. But, with two movies at his disposal, who knows?

[mjbethancourt]

Radagast is actually a pretty big deal in the expulsion of Sauron from Dol Guldur. He raises Mirkwood against him, as an army of woodland animals and such, to support the elves of Lorien and the White Council in that action.

There must be at least some singing: the Dwarves show up at Bilbo's, drink all his booze, eat all his food, break things, and sing drunken songs. That works in the context of any given movie without turning it into a musical.
Goblins and elves should sing too, but probably not in english.

[Bageara]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

Balrogs (Sindarin Elvish for "Demons of Might") are described in further detail in the Silmarillion, where many existed in the First Age. Perhaps the best short description of the one encountered in Fellowship of the Ring is given by Tolkien in his Letters:

"The Balrogs, of whom the whips were the chief weapons, were primeval spirits of destroying fire, chief servants of the primeval Dark Power [Morgoth] of the First Age. They were supposed to have been destroyed in the overthrow of Thangorodrim, his fortress in the North. But it is here found (there is usually a hang-over especially of evil from one age to another) that one had escaped and taken refuge under the [Misty] mountains. It is observable that only [Legolas] knows what the thing is - and obviously Gandalf".

I wouldn't anticipate seeing any Balrogs in "The Hobbit", unless Jackson is thorough enough to trace the story back to the root of all of the troubles of Middle earth - which is the elf Feanor (creator of the Silmarils), who was killed shortly after arriving in Middle earth by Balrogs at Dor Daedeloth. But, with two movies at his disposal, who knows?

So there was once more than one Balrog in the First age. It would be great to see more Balrogs included some how somewhere in the films.
Mabye if Jackson includes the battle that takes place in Moria between the Dwarves and Orcs before the fellowship arrive the Balrog could make an apperence

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

Balrogs (Sindarin Elvish for "Demons of Might") are described in further detail in the Silmarillion, where many existed in the First Age. Perhaps the best short description of the one encountered in Fellowship of the Ring is given by Tolkien in his Letters:

"The Balrogs, of whom the whips were the chief weapons, were primeval spirits of destroying fire, chief servants of the primeval Dark Power [Morgoth] of the First Age. They were supposed to have been destroyed in the overthrow of Thangorodrim, his fortress in the North. But it is here found (there is usually a hang-over especially of evil from one age to another) that one had escaped and taken refuge under the [Misty] mountains. It is observable that only [Legolas] knows what the thing is - and obviously Gandalf".

I wouldn't anticipate seeing any Balrogs in "The Hobbit", unless Jackson is thorough enough to trace the story back to the root of all of the troubles of Middle earth - which is the elf Feanor (creator of the Silmarils), who was killed shortly after arriving in Middle earth by Balrogs at Dor Daedeloth. But, with two movies at his disposal, who knows?

It might be fun to see Feanor as a introduction, like they did in the first movie showing the end of the Second Age, a 6 or 7 minutes intro showing the fall of Melkor (Morgoth) as told by Galadriel

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Bageara

So there was once more than one Balrog in the First age. It would be great to see more Balrogs included some how somewhere in the films.
Mabye if Jackson includes the battle that takes place in Moria between the Dwarves and Orcs before the fellowship arrive the Balrog could make an apperence

I believe the most likely occurrence of having Balrogs in The Hobbit would be

[Show spoiler] a flashback to the battle of Gondolin in the first age, where Morgoth used many Balrogs and dragons to attack the elvish fortress. I say this because Gandalf's sword Glamdring and Thorin's sword Orcrist (that were found in the troll hoard that was discovered in The Hobbit) originally came from Gondolin and were most likely used in that battle. Glamdring originally belonged to Turgon, the elven king of Gondolin.