I believe the most likely occurrence of having Balrogs in The Hobbit would be
[Show spoiler] a flashback to the battle of Gondolin in the first age, where Morgoth used many Balrogs and dragons to attack the elvish fortress. I say this because Gandalf's sword Glamdring and Thorin's sword Orcrist (that were found in the troll hoard that was discovered in The Hobbit) originally came from Gondolin and were most likely used in that battle. Glamdring originally belonged to Turgon, the elven king of Gondolin.
I believe the most likely occurrence of having Balrogs in The Hobbit would be
[Show spoiler] a flashback to the battle of Gondolin in the first age, where Morgoth used many Balrogs and dragons to attack the elvish fortress. I say this because Gandalf's sword Glamdring and Thorin's sword Orcrist (that were found in the troll hoard that was discovered in The Hobbit) originally came from Gondolin and were most likely used in that battle. Glamdring originally belonged to Turgon, the elven king of Gondolin.
The fill-in material is scattered throughout Tolkien's works as he was writing supporting material for "The Silmarillion" (his 50 year labor of love). However, a good place to start is "The Quest of Erebor", which can be found in Unfinished Tales (page 321) and also in The Annotated Hobbit as Appendix A. Tolkien wrote this story after finishing Lord of the Rings as an effort to tie the two stories together. A brief summary of events occurring during that time period may be found in Appendix B of Lord of the Rings, which is called "The Tale of Years".
I was under the impression that the only material they can legally use for the movies is in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. C. Tolkien has supposedly NOT agreed to allow any other sources of material to be used in the movies. Apparently Professor Tolkien had sold the movie rights to both a long time ago, but his son refuses to sell movies rights to any more of his father's writings. That would leave The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales out. However, a version of The Quest for Erebor appears in the Appendices at the end of Return of the King.
WELLINGTON (AFP) - The battle for Middle Earth erupted on the streets of New Zealand Monday as thousands of people rallied to keep "The Hobbit" movies in the country.
Save The Hobbit rally organiser Paul Barlow said the nationwide action was deliberately timed to coincide with the arrival of Warner Bros executives for crunch meetings to determine the fate of the films.
The location for filming "The Hobbit", the long-awaited two-part prequel to "The Lord of the Rings", has been in doubt since the actors' union NZ Equity called for a global boycott while it sought to negotiate a minimum standards agreement.
Although the threat of industrial strife has since been lifted, the riled backers of the movie have said the union's actions caused "substantial damage", forcing them to consider other filming locations.
Rallies to keep "The Hobbit" in New Zealand were staged in all the main centres as well as the small North Island township of Matamata where the sets for the Hobbit village of Hobbiton have been built.
Thousands of people, many dressed as characters from the JRR Tolkien books, turned out to show their support for director Sir Peter Jackson and for the movies to be made in New Zealand.
In Wellington, where the Warner Bros team are to meet Prime Minister John Key on Tuesday, placards at the rally included: "Hey Warner, we're all bros here" and "we love Hobbits".
Key said it was a "50-50" call whether "The Hobbit" would remain in New Zealand.
"I'd love to tell you that it's a done deal, but we're a long way away from being a done deal. There's' a number of issues that we'd need to resolve," he told reporters.
With estimates for the movie cost put between 500 million and 750 million US dollars, Warner Bros needed to be sure they could meet deadlines, Key said.
"They like New Zealand, and clearly Peter Jackson wants to work out of New Zealand, but... unfortunately the actions of the unions have forced Warner Bros to go and look at other locations and that could be to New Zealand's detriment."
Special effects expert and five-time Oscar winner Richard Taylor said the rallies aimed to send a message that New Zealand was the "greatest place in the world" to make movies including The Hobbit.
He remained hopeful that filming would remain in New Zealand, saying "the alternative is just too bleak to consider".
Taylor also read a letter from Peter Jackson who thanked people for their support.
"This is where Middle Earth was born and this is where it should stay," he said.
The Hobbit's casting director Liz Mullane spoke to the crowd with a message for Warner Bros saying "don't give up on us".
At the rally in the main South Island city of Christchurch, actor Axel Scott said if the movies were taken offshore it would damage the country's film industry.
"With no movies here that means no actors, no need for crew, no need for casting agents and no need for Peter (Jackson)," he said.
Over the weekend, New Zealand unions issued an "absolute assurance" of no disruption if "The Hobbit" filming remains in the country but it was not enough to convince the Warner executives to call off their visit.
New Zealand has cashed in on the global exposure of the country's natural scenery as shown in "The Lord of the Rings" trilogy, but Jackson has warned the country's three billion dollar (2.3 billion US) a year film industry would be devastated if "The Hobbit" moved elsewhere.
Apart from a rock-solid garrantee that the actors unions won't try to pull any of this shit again, what exactly do Warner actually want? Huge tax breaks? I'm at a loss to what it is...
Apart from a rock-solid garrantee that the actors unions won't try to pull any of this shit again, what exactly do Warner actually want? Huge tax breaks? I'm at a loss to what it is...
How do we know that any such "rock-solid guarantee" has been made? The assurance of somebody who has already burned you once, is only worth so much.
By "the damage has been done", read: "this industrial action has driven up the cost of insuring this production, nobody wants to underwrite a film that gets held up because it is such an attractive fat target for blackmail by frivolous industrial actions".
I was under the impression that the only material they can legally use for the movies is in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. C. Tolkien has supposedly NOT agreed to allow any other sources of material to be used in the movies. Apparently Professor Tolkien had sold the movie rights to both a long time ago, but his son refuses to sell movies rights to any more of his father's writings. That would leave The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales out. However, a version of The Quest for Erebor appears in the Appendices at the end of Return of the King.
That would be a tragedy, because there is plenty of material for good filmakers. I can understand Christopher's apprehension to a degree, but I remember reading in J.R.R.'s letters that part of the pleasure of his writing the works was see what artists (novelists, painters, filmakers) could do with them.
Apart from a rock-solid garrantee that the actors unions won't try to pull any of this shit again, what exactly do Warner actually want? Huge tax breaks? I'm at a loss to what it is...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjbethancourt
How do we know that any such "rock-solid guarantee" has been made? The assurance of somebody who has already burned you once, is only worth so much.
By "the damage has been done", read: "this industrial action has driven up the cost of insuring this production, nobody wants to underwrite a film that gets held up because it is such an attractive fat target for blackmail by frivolous industrial actions".
There has been talks of tax breaks and changes to employment issues (cant think of the word but changing the law re employment). John will be kissing their asses.
Apart from a rock-solid garrantee that the actors unions won't try to pull any of this shit again, what exactly do Warner actually want? Huge tax breaks? I'm at a loss to what it is...
They've already lost money due to the MGM BS. Now they've lost more money thanks to a bunch of Aussie assh***s. They should be compensated somehow.
That would be a tragedy, because there is plenty of material for good filmakers. I can understand Christopher's apprehension to a degree, but I remember reading in J.R.R.'s letters that part of the pleasure of his writing the works was see what artists (novelists, painters, filmakers) could do with them.
I agree. But I don't think Christopher is exactly thrilled with how the LoTR movies turned out, other than the money it brought to the estate.
According to Forbes annual list of ‘Top Earning Deceased Celebrities,’ our favorite professor comes in at No. 3, right behind Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson! Tolkien earned $50 million by selling approximately 500,000 copies of The Lord of the Rings in just the last year. Not too shabby for a man who passed away 37 years years ago. J.R.R. Tolkien beat out other celebrities such as John Lennon, Charles Schultz, Dr. Seuss and Albert Einstein. To read the full list, jump on over to Forbes.com. [Read on]
I can't think of too many 55 year old novels that are still selling in that quantity. Once the first Hobbit movie gets close to release, the sales will most likely double, a fitting testament to the Professor - especially with regard to some of the criticism that was directed at him upon the initial release of the books. More recently, there were still plenty of critcs that were appalled when LotR was selected as the favorite novel of the century/millenium in several literary polls.
Call me being overdramatic, but if The Hobbit Parts 1 and 2 don't get made in New Zealand, i think it's going to damage the NZ film industry big time. No-one wants to film in a country that they worry has a bad reputation for it's actors unions kicking up a shit storm. NZ needs to offer further incentives to Warner and call the matter closed when they accept.
Call me being overdramatic, but if The Hobbit Parts 1 and 2 don't get made in New Zealand, i think it's going to damage the NZ film industry big time. No-one wants to film in a country that they worry has a bad reputation for it's actors unions kicking up a shit storm. NZ needs to offer further incentives to Warner and call the matter closed when they accept.
The Prime Minister has said NZ won't get into a bidding war with Warner. NZ media is already starting to to work up heat for tax breaks that have already been given out in the past.
I truly hope they get their acts together. The Hobbit is a wonder story as well. I loved the animated version they made years ago but with today's technology the next version should be amazing.
Call me being overdramatic, but if The Hobbit Parts 1 and 2 don't get made in New Zealand, i think it's going to damage the NZ film industry big time. No-one wants to film in a country that they worry has a bad reputation for it's actors unions kicking up a shit storm. NZ needs to offer further incentives to Warner and call the matter closed when they accept.
Not over-dramatic at all. The message sent is "it's fine to use our superior artists to make indie films, but if you try to bring a blockbuster here, someone will hold your big film-budget for ransom". That's bad business all around.
Hobbit to film in New Zealand. Confirmed by Prime Minister at press conference this evening.
Quote:
The Hobbit will be made in New Zealand, Prime Minister John Key has announced.
He said at a press conference this evening that legislation would be introduced to Parliament tomorrow to support this. It will apply only to the film industry.
The future of the $670 million production hung in the balance after an actors union issued a no-work order on the films last month.
Talks were held overnight with studio executives from Warner Brothers to resolve concerns about industrial laws in New Zealand.
But the studio was holding out for a bigger tax subsidy from the Government.
Mr Key also announcedThe hobbit will get a $15 million tax rebate - $7.5m per film.
The movie will premiere in New Zealand and the Government would plan a major campaign promoting the country to coincide with its launch, Mr Key said.
Might have to head down to Welly for the premier. I went to the ROTK premier at it was a great experience.
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