The British & Irish Football Thread

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by tob

Come on geoff instead of clubs like Palace looking at Leicester with a smile why did it take so long for a club like Leicester to step up at last.
But down through the years these clubs would be happy going to old trafford and hoping to get a point and this awful mentally of lets try and get 40 points and that's us safe for another season in the premier league.
If these middle of the road clubs had a better mentally down through the years then it be a more open race for the title.

I don't want to get involved in a knock-down drag-out spat but it's funny that all the people who repeat that line are supporters of the biggest clubs who expect success as a matter of course. Like it's always been some simple formula to work out, as if football is some even-keeled meritocracy which offers a level playing field for all. Sorry fella but that's UTTER bullshit, there's been a combination of factors which have led to this (several top teams not turning up this season, the world-class form of Vardy and Mahrez which NO-ONE saw coming given that they cost about £1.4M between them) and I can't envision how it will happen again for another 20 years.

Leicester are the first first-time winners of the top division for almost 40 years, that was well before the Premier League bloated the financial rewards beyond the dreams of avarice and supposedly stunted the ambition of the little guys, according to you. Palace finished third in 1990, also years before this current 'loads of dosh era' (though let's not pretend that the bigger clubs didn't have more money to spend, even then) so events like these really ARE a once-in-a-generation (or two) occurance, no matter what era of football it falls in.

It's a beautiful real-life fairytale of a story for the romantics, for the people who don't support big clubs and in all likelihood never will, for the people who are just happy to see their football club even exist (the last 20 years have been incredibly turbulent for Palace, I make it three periods of administration in that time). I'd say we have a right to be happy with our lot and a right to be overjoyed for Leicester's incredible achievement, and the moans of the jaded cynics tired of their big clubs being "specialists at failure" will be lost to history.

[Pizzamorg]

One point ahead Newcastle with a game in hand, right? Newcastle have a potentially explosive final fixture against Spurs and you have the much easier victory in Everton. I think you can do this.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Pizzamorg

One point ahead Newcastle with a game in hand, right? Newcastle have a potentially explosive final fixture against Spurs and you have the much easier victory in Everton. I think you can do this.

If they win the Everton game in midweek then Newcastle and Norwich will both be relegated in one fell swoop.

[tob]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I don't want to get involved in a knock-down drag-out spat but it's funny that all the people who repeat that line are supporters of the biggest clubs who expect success as a matter of course. Like it's always been some simple formula to work out, as if football is some even-keeled meritocracy which offers a level playing field for all. Sorry fella but that's UTTER bullshit, there's been a combination of factors which have led to this (several top teams not turning up this season, the world-class form of Vardy and Mahrez which NO-ONE saw coming given that they cost about £1.4M between them) and I can't envision how it will happen again for another 20 years.

Leicester are the first first-time winners of the top division for almost 40 years, that was well before the Premier League bloated the financial rewards beyond the dreams of avarice and supposedly stunted the ambition of the little guys, according to you. Palace finished third in 1990, also years before this current 'loads of dosh era' (though let's not pretend that the bigger clubs didn't have more money to spend, even then) so events like these really ARE a once-in-a-generation (or two) occurance, no matter what era of football it falls in.

It's a beautiful real-life fairytale of a story for the romantics, for the people who don't support big clubs and in all likelihood never will, for the people who are just happy to see their football club even exist (the last 20 years have been incredibly turbulent for Palace, I make it three periods of administration in that time). I'd say we have a right to be happy with our lot and a right to be overjoyed for Leicester's incredible achievement, and the moans of the jaded cynics tired of their big clubs being "specialists at failure" will be lost to history.

Who said this was a spat just a debate that i am tired of bringing up.
Didn't expect the big club support to be brought up again but if your happy to see your club 14th in the league then we have different ambitions.
Don't need the history lesson mate just surprised that you in your words said that you shed a tear for Leicester when they are or were on the same level as Palace.
Nothing against Leicester said on the night when they were confirmed champions all the best fair play they deserved it, just find it strange your reaction.

[Geoff D]

Why bring it up again then if you find it to be so tiresome? No-one posed the question, you just felt the need to piss on Leicester's parade for the umpteenth time. You find it strange because you don't know what it's like supporting a smaller club, but this sort of thing is something that us small fry dream about, of our team becoming major players instead of scrabbling for survival every year, but there's a reason why the bookies had Leicester as 5000-1 shots: it's literally a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence.

And I shed a tear due to this weird thing called empathy: it's precisely BECAUSE my lot are on a similar footing that I can look at Leicester and appreciate just how seismic their magnificent achievement really is, instead of grumbling about why other teams don't just do the same thing, like it's as easy as just turning up. You really are incredibly myopic about this.

If you still can't wrap your head around that then I don't know what else to say, it's like you're this unfeeling automaton that simply CANNOT COMPUTE the joy that this win has instilled in the hearts and minds of football fans all over the country, even the world.

[Pizzamorg]

Don't forget for footballers, teams and everyone involved too. Obviously everyone in football dreams of lifting that trophy, but now Leicester have proven it doesn't have to be just a dream. Who knows what happens now, a blank slate. I really do hope teams like Palace, WBA, Everton, Sunderland etc go in next season with a whole new lease on life, pushing with a goal, not just a dream. Have more seasons which shut out Arsenal, United, Chelsea, City, Liverpool etc maybe even from the top five positions all together.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Pizzamorg

Don't forget for footballers, teams and everyone involved too. Obviously everyone in football dreams of lifting that trophy, but now Leicester have proven it doesn't have to be just a dream. Who knows what happens now, a blank slate. I really do hope teams like Palace, WBA, Everton, Sunderland etc go in next season with a whole new lease on life, pushing with a goal, not just a dream. Have more seasons which shut out Arsenal, United, Chelsea, City, Liverpool etc maybe even from the top five positions all together.

But that's the thing, it's a wonderful notion but instead of it opening the floodgates for the Premier League to become this egalitarian footballing paradise I think it'll just make the gates slam shut. Chelsea and City will be bouncing back and spending more petrodollars than ever, Utd also seem to be righting the ship at last, Spurs will want to maintain this form, Liverpool are already looking very tasty under Klopp and even Arsenal might turn up for once and stop settling for that Champions League place every season. (What were we saying about having no ambition?)

So on top of all that lot, the lower clubs are now supposed to throw caution to the wind in pursuit of that dream, either filling their team with journeymen and bargain buys in the hope that they'll gel into some sort of world-class outfit, or to spend lots of money and vastly overstretch their finances in a vain effort to keep pace with the aforementioned petrodollars?

The most wonderful thing about Leicester's success which y'all seem to be forgetting (even you Pizza, I know how quickly you've gotten used to all this from our discussions earlier in the season ) is that it was COMPLETELY unplanned, it's not like they put all the pieces in place for an assault on the top and watched the results roll in! If teams go chasing whatever magic formula they think they can deduce from this UNPRECEDENTED win in almost 25 years of the EPL then they might be in for a very rude awakening come the end of next season.

Either that, or everyone will become all become as good as each other overnight (because it's that easy) and there won't be a winner of the league, everyone will be on the same points.

[Pizzamorg]

But could caution be the reason that this homogeny exists? Maybe there should be more Davids not afraid of trying to slay Goliath in the EPL. There are no scripts, no rules, I hope we do inspire change.

[Geoff D]

But who's "afraid" when you're just struggling to survive from year to year while trying to actually play good football? Palace don't turn up every week and park the bus like Pulis, they try and play better than the opposition but - here's the kicker - they're just not good enough.

[edit] We've beaten the likes of Liverpool and Chelsea on their own turf this season, is that not "ambitious" enough for anyone here? The problem comes when we get beaten by the likes of Watford and Bournemouth at home, going on a record run of consecutive home defeats, it's the consistency which can't simply be willed into solid reality for most teams due to a variety of factors, e.g. Leicester have been spectacularly fortunate with injuries this season.

Funny thing is, we'll probably see teams throwing caution to the wind at the start of next season and trying to get stuck in, a few pastings will be handed out and then it'll be business as usual. Dreams are lovely but reality is a b*tch.

[Pizzamorg]

Well remember, Leicester had a rubbish season in the Premier League last year. We started off okay mostly because everyone expected us to be slaughtered as Leicester's yo yo history has made sure that everyone has low expectations of us at all times so when we got a few draws against big clubs and that United victory, everyone was momentarily distracted from their preconceived notions. Then from there, we were rubbish. Well I don't know if that is fair, we put in a lot of great performances but we weren't getting the points so it didn't really matter. Then just as it seemed like we were on the titanic, what was it again, like 15 points adrift with six games remaining or something? Not only did we pull off the greatest escape in PL history, we turned into the best team in Europe and took that momentum to win the League.

It's that that makes me think that if we can do it, any one can. If anything, other teams should have higher chances than us because you've been in the Premier League longer than us, at least on this current run.

[Geoff D]

Did you see my edit above? Yes, you had that incredible finish to last season, building momentum which is what energised the players into becoming as good a unit as they are. But who this season down the bottom has gone on a similarly incredible run to get themselves out of trouble? Hell, everyone from Chelsea on down has had a patchy season at best. You also had some incredible luck with injuries (or rather lack thereof, [edit] e.g. who's to say where West Ham could've finished had Payet not spent two months out?) and several of the bigger teams went astray at just the right time which left the door wide open.

It's the last two things especially which seem to have been forgotten here, as the circumstances of this season have been the very definition of a perfect storm for Leicester. I think it'll end up being a classic case of the exception that proves the rule as the big clubs renew their hegemony in the years to come, but if it's not then I look forward to Bournemouth lifting the trophy this time next year.

[Geoff D]

Anyhoo, kudos to Boro for getting the job done today! At least Steed will still have a northeast derby to enjoy next season. And Brighton can **** right off, I hope Wednesday stuff them in the play-offs.

[tob]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Why bring it up again then if you find it to be so tiresome? No-one posed the question, you just felt the need to piss on Leicester's parade for the umpteenth time. You find it strange because you don't know what it's like supporting a smaller club, but this sort of thing is something that us small fry dream about, of our team becoming major players instead of scrabbling for survival every year, but there's a reason why the bookies had Leicester as 5000-1 shots: it's literally a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence.

And I shed a tear due to this weird thing called empathy: it's precisely BECAUSE my lot are on a similar footing that I can look at Leicester and appreciate just how seismic their magnificent achievement really is, instead of grumbling about why other teams don't just do the same thing, like it's as easy as just turning up. You really are incredibly myopic about this.

If you still can't wrap your head around that then I don't know what else to say, it's like you're this unfeeling automaton that simply CANNOT COMPUTE the joy that this win has instilled in the hearts and minds of football fans all over the country, even the world.

I am not pissing on Leicester parade how many times must i say this but they deserved to be champions and well done can you get your head around that issue.
I am well aware this title for them was a long shot and again they were fantastic all season, but i find it odd that your club is on the same footing as Leicester was but instead of saying to yourself that is what i want next season more drive like and ambition but you settle for more of the same.
Listen mate happy for Leicester but don't mislead people on here saying i am not and the rest of the world is now back to you on big club v small club or we move on.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Pizzamorg

One point ahead Newcastle with a game in hand, right? Newcastle have a potentially explosive final fixture against Spurs and you have the much easier victory in Everton. I think you can do this.

Yes mate. We must go for it on Wednesday. We will relegate Newcastle and Norwich like Geoff says. Can't bear last day drama.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Anyhoo, kudos to Boro for getting the job done today! At least Steed will still have a northeast derby to enjoy next season. And Brighton can **** right off, I hope Wednesday stuff them in the play-offs.

Yes, true. Although it doesn't have the same intensity. We had the pleasure of virtually relegating them last time!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by tob

I am not pissing on Leicester parade how many times must i say this but they deserved to be champions and well done can you get your head around that issue.
I am well aware this title for them was a long shot and again they were fantastic all season, but i find it odd that your club is on the same footing as Leicester was but instead of saying to yourself that is what i want next season more drive like and ambition but you settle for more of the same.
Listen mate happy for Leicester but don't mislead people on here saying i am not and the rest of the world is now back to you on big club v small club or we move on.

Did you miss the part where I said we ("we" as in the lesser lights) all dream about seasons like that, turning the league on its head instead of battling relegation? It's part of the fabric of competitive sport, it's why we love it in the first place, that even the faintest chance might be there for the underdogs to upset the status quo. Of course I would want that for my beloved team, ANYONE would so it's asinine to keep pointing it out. But will I get that happening? Hell no. What I keep trying and failing to point out is that the fates conspired to bring everything together absolutely perfectly for Leicester this season, it's simply not the case that every other EPL team can now turn into world beaters just because they decide to be, that's ridiculously naive. But then I shouldn't be surprised, you're the guy who thinks nothing of his team being able to spunk £42.5M on a single player, as if it's as simple as popping down the corner shop for a pint of milk.

[tob]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Did you miss the part where I said we ("we" as in the lesser lights) all dream about seasons like that, turning the league on its head instead of battling relegation? It's part of the fabric of competitive sport, it's why we love it in the first place, that even the faintest chance might be there for the underdogs to upset the status quo. Of course I would want that for my beloved team, ANYONE would so it's asinine to keep pointing it out. But will I get that happening? Hell no. What I keep trying and failing to point out is that the fates conspired to bring everything together absolutely perfectly for Leicester this season, it's simply not the case that every other EPL team can now turn into world beaters just because they decide to be, that's ridiculously naive. But then I shouldn't be surprised, you're the guy who thinks nothing of his team being able to spunk £42.5M on a single player, as if it's as simple as popping down the corner shop for a pint of milk.

What never said that more lies from you now you are going off course with the last line tell you what enjoy your day out in Wembley take a few pictures because you won't be back there again.

[Geoff D]

If we win it's still more silverware than your lot managed this season, how's that for ambition?

[cue inevitable remark about Arsenal having won more trophies than Palace ever will, yawn]

[tob]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

If we win it's still more silverware than your lot managed this season, how's that for ambition?

[cue inevitable remark about Arsenal having won more trophies than Palace ever will, yawn]

Too easy.

[Geoff D]

And all this shite just because I dared expressed my admiration for Leicester's achievement. Christ on a bike.