HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post17383840

finishing up the above ^ post -
The initial motivation behind that ^ by the ITU working group (https://www.itu.int/md/R15-WP6C-C-0461 ) was to provide some visual compatibility between HDR and SDR programming in that when you switch channels on your TV (from an HDR program to an SDR program on another channel) you don’t suddenly get eye strain or vice versa (from an SDR program to an HDR program on another channel), consumers don’t suddenly get turned off by the HDR program because it looks way too dark, comparatively.

That said, with regards to cinema and the possibility for bumping up to the aforementioned ~ 200 nits for HDR grading of Hollywood movies, already, for many years, even ‘videophiles’ have become accustomed to (like that of seeing movies at 24 fps) to watching SDR movies at 200 nits as implemented with ‘cinema mode’ in some brands when in fact that was brighter than it was originally created in the grading suite.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post17383840

finishing up the above ^ post -
The initial motivation behind that ^ by the ITU working group (https://www.itu.int/md/R15-WP6C-C-0461 ) was to provide some visual compatibility between HDR and SDR programming in that when you switch channels on your TV (from an HDR program to an SDR program on another channel) you don’t suddenly get eye strain or vice versa (from an SDR program to an HDR program on another channel), consumers don’t suddenly get turned off by the HDR program because it looks way too dark, comparatively.

That said, with regards to cinema and the possibility for bumping up to the aforementioned ~ 200 nits for HDR grading of Hollywood movies, already, for many years, even ‘videophiles’ have become accustomed to (like that of seeing movies at 24 fps) to watching SDR movies at 200 nits as implemented with ‘cinema mode’ in some brands when in fact that was brighter than it was originally created in the grading suite.

If anyone had properly calibrated their set (which I'd consider to be a true 'videophile' qualifier ) then it wouldn't go anywhere near 200 nits for SDR using current standards, BUT that's a big reason why HDR content is deemed to be so dark by the average viewer. They're so used to Torch Mode on their TVs that when they're confronted by that darned absolute luminance of HDR that the comparatively low APL - even when properly mapped sans IQ boosting - can seem extraordinarily low on most movies in comparison.

OUATIH is a recent example, the UHD is mos def a shade darker than the SDR Blu but to some people it's so dark it's almost unwatchable, and that's pretty much down to the unholy trinity of dodgy tone mapping, bright ambient viewing environment and conditioning towards ultra-bright SDR making the UHD look vastly dimmer in comparison.

Still, Filmmaker Mode is all about setting SDR to 100 nits and thus negate dat Torch Mode madness. It's gonna be very interesting to gauge how people react to that after years of having their TV on Vivid with Cool colour temp, the sharpness cranked up and the motionflow turned on.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

lol, well I’m glad at least you didn’t question this – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post17342182
for although it likewise being valid, I’m very doubtful that pedigree information can be found anywhere on the internet…..only verifiable if one has personally heard George’s 4-legged friends howling in the background at his home

I don't know who the George is you're referring to (I'm sure he's very rich and successful, so yay him!) but it should be patently obvious that I'm all aboot them moggies, hence no interest whatsoever in that linked post.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

^ , although not a good idea to be doing that when shuttled in an airplane from one of the Top Gun: Maverick movie set locations like -

some of the cast -


and some of the crew -

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I don't know who the George is you're referring to (I'm sure he's very rich and successful, so yay him!) but it should be patently obvious that I'm all aboot them moggies, hence no interest whatsoever in that linked post.

And here I thought you enjoyed enlightening members about film scanning and such on other threads, e.g. - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...z#post17224152

As to George, for over 20 years Senior Vice President, Theatrical Catalog Marketing at Warner Bros. Home Entertainment and animal lover like me - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post17345576

[Waboman]

What in the world is going on in here? We have George and PM howling in the background and dammit, I have to google moggies... safe search on.

[kfbkfb]

HDR brightness levels:

Why not allow 3 (2 bits) or 7 (3 bits)
HDR brightness levels instead of a continuous
level?

Any tests to see if people perceive limiting
HDR brightness levels to (large) brightness
steps as compared to continuous brightness
increases?


Kirk Bayne

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

The HDTV is officially dead

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1582801708

4K OLED HDR TVs are dirt cheap ... 55-65"
4K LED HDR TVs are dirt cheap ... 75-85"+

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

I don't know if HDR rollable/foldable are going to be reliable and catch up with HDR performance and HDR cinéphiles.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

That word triggers memories on the thread which was locked at about the 3½ million viewership mark in 2012, but now approaching 8 million views in the interim - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ic#post1733100

Wow, what HDR happened...a deadly HDR virus?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Wow, what HDR happened...a deadly HDR virus?

despite the lemonade stand being shut down and no longer dispensing wisdom, apparently people keep coming back for vintage continuing education, for as member PaulGo noted - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post13997860

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Waboman

What in the world is going on in here? We have George and PM howling in the background and dammit, I have to google moggies... safe search on.

I know, I know rather than cute cats and dogs, all you pole-centric guys who enjoy the Brit YouTube celebrity calibrator’s innuendoes need, from time to time, more pictorial illustrations of real tigresses’ gripping wood – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post16406643

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Still, Filmmaker Mode is all about setting SDR to 100 nits and thus negate dat Torch Mode madness. It's gonna be very interesting to gauge how people react to that after years of having their TV on Vivid with Cool colour temp, the sharpness cranked up and the motionflow turned on.

even those novice watchers who don’t live in a reference environment like you, won’t suffer as much as you might think with manufacturer developed Intelligent Sensing –

YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

stochastic

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

That word triggers memories on the thread which was locked at about the 3½ million viewership mark in 2012, but now approaching 8 million views in the interim - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ic#post1733100

Scrolling down one post from ^ link
Reminds me, a public service announcement as we care about all members….active or inactive -
DenonCI aka David of Sound and Vision Magazine, if you still live/work in Vacaville, until the government and CDC gets it together with test kits, all my medical friend (Infections Disease specialist) can recommend to you and your family is to wash your hands frequently and maybe purchase nothing less than an N-95 quality masks before they become outrageously expensive or out of stock in case it’s recommended with short notice by local experts to wear a mask for a potential widespread community outbreak in your neck of the woods.

Fatality rate for Corona is clocking in at 2.3% of those infected.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

The HDTV is officially dead

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1582801708

Really? Honestly? Someone should tell UK broadcasters. We have
no 4K broadcasts,
a small minority of channels which are HD,
and most channels still firmly SD with no sign whatsoever of that EVER changing.

We even have channels which had been both SD and HD, shutting down their HD channels and returning to SD-only. (Turner Classic Movies).
. It's almost like HD is a "failed experiment" over here.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

OUATIH is a recent example, the UHD is mos def a shade darker than the SDR Blu but to some people it's so dark it's almost unwatchable, and that's pretty much down to the unholy trinity of dodgy tone mapping, bright ambient viewing environment and conditioning towards ultra-bright SDR making the UHD look vastly dimmer in comparison.

To save everyone else that time working out yet another obscure acronym: "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood". You're welcome.

[Penton-Man]

Live 8K HDR football…..https://broadcast-sport.com/2020/02/...rts-broadcast/

[Penton-Man]

^ somebody across the pond should do a side-by-side demo of a soccer match with players running (not a static environment of establishing shots or of people sitting in the stands) comparing the imagery captured in 7680×4320 resolution at 50fps versus using more commonly available 4K cameras in 4K resolution at 50fps in view of the science offered at the SMPTE 2017 Annual Tech Conference and Exhibition - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post14544289

[Craig M]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

^ somebody across the pond should do a side-by-side demo of a soccer match with players running (not a static environment of establishing shots or of people sitting in the stands) comparing the imagery captured in 7680×4320 resolution at 50fps versus using more commonly available 4K cameras in 4K resolution at 50fps in view of the science offered at the SMPTE 2017 Annual Tech Conference and Exhibition - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post14544289

Indeed. The sweet spot for sport may well be 4K/100p + HDR (for UK/Europe/Australia), or even 1080/100p + HDR, if broadcast bandwidth is scarce.

[LordoftheRings]

When are the next HDR Olympics?

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

When are the next HDR Olympics?

Ugh, the odds makers are going against the Tokyo Olympics taking place.
There was supposed to be up to 8K and HDR I believe.
Next up, zombie apocalypse...

Maybe the revolution will be broadcast in HDR.

[LordoftheRings]

I think it will be broadcast in HDR 4K ... perhaps in 8K HDR in some high-rise penthouses of Tokyo?

"Fifty-six years after having organised the Olympic Games, the Japanese capital will be hosting a Summer edition for the second time, from 24 July to 9 August 2020. The Games in 1964 radically transformed the country. According to the organisers of the event in 2020, the Games of the XXXII Olympiad of the modern era will be “the most innovative ever organised, and will rest on three fundamental principles to transform the world: striving for your personal best (achieving your personal best); accepting one another (unity in diversity); and passing on a legacy for the future (connecting to tomorrow)”.

Aligning with the reforms advocated by Olympic Agenda 2020, the Tokyo Games will use as many existing competition venues as possible, namely those built for the Games in 1964, such as the prestigious Nippon Budokkan for judo, the Baji Koen Park for equestrian events, and the Yoyogi National Gymnasium for handball. The Tokyo National Stadium, where the Opening and Closing Ceremonies and athletics competitions will be staged, will be completely revamped and replaced by a new arena.

Japan has been an Olympic land since the Summer Games of 1964, which were the first to be staged in Asia. In 2020, the country will host its fourth Games, if we include the Winter Games of 1972 in Sapporo and of 1998 in Nagano."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei_2...ature=youtu.be

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Ugh, the odds makers are going against the Tokyo Olympics taking place.

Could still happen despite the odds makers, but potentially could end up being like preseason baseball in Japan –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbThoxd__ug#t=1m1s
especially if we are seeing just the tip of the iceberg and the outbreaks get worse and Tokyo has a cool summer - https://secure.jbs.elsevierhealth.co...sent?code=null
if blocked ^ , to get to the journal article go thru this - https://www.livescience.com/how-long...-surfaces.html

Long-term, my greatest fear is that this virus turns out to be a seasonal thing like the flu and we all will just have to live with its existence, year to year, the best we can until eventually a vaccine is developed. And I wouldn’t count on 100% efficacy with that when such a vaccine comes to fruition.

I suspect movie-going on date night may be affected for at least the short term however there’s always home entertainment deliverables