Archived: Insiders Thread

[HDJK]

I just checked the Samsung again and it's actually the reverse pulldown that uses interpolation. They don't support a true 24P input yet.
And what happens with NTSC material on the 50/100Hz sets? Does any insider know?

[NutsAboutPS3]

Originally Posted by HDJK

I just checked the Samsung again and it's actually the reverse pulldown that uses interpolation. They don't support a true 24P input yet.

The discussion of how 24p is displayed could perhaps be moved to a new thread, but as an owner of a Samsung set I can confirm that it:
a) Is automatically detected by the PS3 as supporting 24p, no need to set the PS3 to force 24p output.
b) If I press the info button on the TV it shows as 24Hz when viewing 24p material. If I force the PS3 to output 1080i instead, it shows as 60Hz, proving that it is handling 24p in a different way.

And to any Sony insiders reading this, you may wish to consider offering your latest sets in a gloss black finish, as this was the primary reason why I bought the Samsung rather than a Sony. Older Sony models were offered in a gloss black finish, I've no idea why Sony decided to go all retro with the grey plastic look of their newer TVs.

[JAGUAR1977]

Blu-ray's Dilemma

Through these interviews, it seems clear that Sony's recent offerings of a small price cut this holiday may not be enough to counter what could be increasing momentum for HD DVD. With so many new players now in consumers' hands, it can only be expected that disc sales will increase as well.

Multiple studies show that the PlayStation 3 alone will not be enough to keep the Blu-ray format afloat. Six out of ten users aren't even aware that the device can play Blu-ray movies, and out of the remaining four, only two had actually used the player in the past month to play a disc, according to NPD Group.

In addition, a rising number of HD DVD owners will make it hard for Sony to make the case to both retailers and studios to support its format exclusively. Consumer demand will keep HD DVD on the radar of the studios who currently support it, and will give the format leverage to lure new studios in.

It is not out of the question that this past weekend's moves by Wal-Mart have in the very least extended the format war much longer than many Blu-ray supporters would have imagined, and very well could have provided the needed momentum toward a successful conclusion for those in HD DVD's camp

For how much longer are the BDA going to sit back with their relaxed, we've won the war already, attitude, leaving us, Blu-ray consumers to suffer high player and movie costs, while Toshiba goes all out to win this format war.

The BDA are seriously misjudging the market if they believe consumers, even those who already own Blu-ray, are going to sit back and ignore cheap HD-DVD players.

Everday that goes by is another lost opportunity for the BDA to bring this format war to a swift conclusion.

It's disenchanting for those of us who invested in Blu-ray to see so little being done to cut prices.

The one bone we where thrown was the BOGO which was a HUGE success, the BDA need to offer loyal customers something else, we're being screwed with these prices, making second players or players as Christmas gifts virtually impossible!

Right now going dual format appears the only sensible thing to do, why should we as consumers pass up on such great HD-DVD deals when counter deals don't even come close for Blu-ray,

[BadAss]

Toshiba would sell their soul to get market share right now. The only way Toshiba could get rid of so many A2 was to give them away before the A3 came out.

[Seretur]

Jaguar, even if the talking points in your quote were correct, you don't seriously think that any insider would spill the beans on how they plan to handle this, do you?

They handled the Transformers release, I'm sure they can handle the firesale. And the firesale was primarily a preemptive strike on the part of Toshiba because of the Pixar week, anyway.

[Neo65]

There's a reason why referees are never allowed to kick the ball in soccer, you can't have people who can push the ball in one direction have the power to remove other players from the field.

As I watched this unfold, the question of why AVS became so heavily slanted red, I believe it's accidental, and not intentional, that's the nature of the internet age, propagandas are fought by both sides.

I believe that MSFT and HD DVD PRG very early on recognized that neutral sites like highdefdigest and AVS is where the propaganda war has to be fought and they deliberately targeted those sites. For whatever reasons, BDA did not or didn't know how to, or try similar attempts until the critical mass was already built up on those sites.

By critical mass, I am referring to a small core of posters with deep conviction recruting and bringing on others to a common cause. If the referees in the beginning were aware of this, they could have stopped it very early before it became the mess it is today.

But what if one or some of the referres had a bias? How would that unfold?

Now, if the forum never claimed to be neutral, I have no problem with that. You visit blu-ray.com and you know what the forum was created for. Many visit AVSFORUM, especially those who know of them for years and will be taken aback that the HDM side was so heavy red, in spite of what the disk buying volume really has been all year.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by JAGUAR1977

For how much longer are the BDA going to sit back with their relaxed, we've won the war already, attitude, leaving us, Blu-ray consumers to suffer high player and movie costs, while Toshiba goes all out to win this format war.

The BDA are seriously misjudging the market if they believe consumers, even those who already own Blu-ray, are going to sit back and ignore cheap HD-DVD players.

I agree - with all the powers that be in the Blu-ray camp they should snuff HD DVD out NOW. If you have to put out $99 players from now to the end of the year with the 1.0 players, then bloody well do it.

I'm sick and tired of this shit - the time to act is now and it seems to me like the BDA's hardware makers are just letting us the consumer fight for Blu-ray. Great to see all the titles from the studios, but the hardware companies need to go at it RIGHT FREAKING NOW with the 1.0 players.

The movies are on the shelves that will attract the consumers - the hardware is NOT.

[Objectivity]

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

AVS will bring back their HDM sections I have been told, but a whole new mod team is required. Mods will be separate for Blu-ray and HD DVD sections, so each will get their own mods who are sympathetic to their respective formats. That general HDTV section probably won't come back though.

To make it truly fair, the Blu mods should be in charge of the HD-DVD section and vice versa.

[Lambchop]

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

Relax guys. The fact that Toshiba could only sell about 70,000 of their junk players (most to second time buyers) at $99 is very telling.

I thought the no. of sales was approximately 90000, with 40 to 70k being at Walmart. Do you know something we don't? (This question always sounds dumb when asking an insider in'it? )
Has there been any news on Funai or other happenings in China?

[Lambchop]

Yes, the chinese are very suspect... I hear they're buying up the US. (just kidding.)

On a serious note, sorry for asking. It was careless of me. But thank you for information on the wall mart sales no's.

[Grubert]

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

That general HDTV section probably won't come back though.

Then I'm out of a job (I started the Nielsen thread back in... January!).

*****

I have a question for the insiders (especially Penton-Man):

Is the upcoming High-def 2.0 conference, next December 4, likely to produce a palpable outcome or will just be used for round tables and other PR?

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

Relax guys. The fact that Toshiba could only sell about 70,000 of their junk players (most to second time buyers) at $99 is very telling.

Well we were told that it was around 50,000 available, now around 90,000 available.

They could just as easily sell the A3 during December for $99 as well and I'm sure they have more than 90,000 of those available.

I think these low cost players are being underestimated. 70,000 in one week-end could well move 1,000,000 HD DVD players into market by the end of the year and that will raise studio's eyebrows.

[RUR]

Originally Posted by Grubert

Then I'm out of a job (I started the Nielsen thread back in... January!).

Ah, but we have our own Nielsen thread and welcome your always insightful comments.

[Mr_Bester]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Well we were told that it was around 50,000 available, now around 90,000 available.

They could just as easily sell the A3 during December for $99 as well and I'm sure they have more than 90,000 of those available.

I think these low cost players are being underestimated. 70,000 in one week-end could well move 1,000,000 HD DVD players into market by the end of the year and that will raise studio's eyebrows.

Throw in the free movies that come with the players(3 of which are scanned at best buy with the A3) and this could be a problem....

[Steverhcp02]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Well we were told that it was around 50,000 available, now around 90,000 available.

They could just as easily sell the A3 during December for $99 as well and I'm sure they have more than 90,000 of those available.

I think these low cost players are being underestimated. 70,000 in one week-end could well move 1,000,000 HD DVD players into market by the end of the year and that will raise studio's eyebrows.

again, it may have teh reverse effect if they sell a butt load of hardware and BD still pulls ahead in YTD and SI.....i FIRMLY believe this is going to have an adverse effect because something like this almost warrants a great upward move for HD DVD.....but with BD Q4 software plus (hopefully) a small price cut on player and the PS3......HD DVD will be stale, thus making the price drop look like it, at the very best, kept things even with $400 BD players.

Plus, dropping the price that quickly only lets more people who dont know exactly what theyre buying to buy one. By this, id look for people not hooking it up right, not buying HD DVD's or returning them.....the awareness isnt there yet for 90k players to sell to 90k people who know how to use them.

Until HD DVD starts outselling BD software or keeps it below 60:40 for 4 or 5 weeks throughout nov. dec, id say we are sitting pretty as long as warner is viewing this objectively.

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

Relax guys. The fact that Toshiba could only sell about 70,000 of their junk players (most to second time buyers) at $99 is very telling.

Emphasis mine in italic bolds; that's the part nobody is talking about. How many of these players went to people who already had HD DVD and/or people who have no intention of buying discs at the rate of an early adopter?!?!

Toshiba can yell from the mountain tops that they've sold 1,000,000 players at $99, but if it doesnt translate into significant INCREMENTAL disc sales by the end of January, it really doesn't matter, does it?

Let Toshiba play this out. They're at the point where subsidizing software down to DVD prices is about all the moves they have left. They're at the World Series of Poker, and Toshiba has the "short stack"...

For people supporting Blu, you must continue to support Blu through the holidays and into early next year. Consumers will have clarity (either BD win, or long term stalemate) in the first half of next year. I have no doubt.

[Longshot]

Originally Posted by Esox50

Emphasis mine in italic bolds; that's the part nobody is talking about. How many of these players went to people who already had HD DVD and/or people who have no intention of buying discs at the rate of an early adopter?!?!

Toshiba can yell from the mountain tops that they've sold 1,000,000 players at $99, but if it doesnt translate into significant INCREMENTAL disc sales by the end of January, it really doesn't matter, does it?

Let Toshiba play this out. They're at the point where subsidizing software down to DVD prices is about all the moves they have left. They're at the World Series of Poker, and Toshiba has the "short stack"...

For people supporting Blu, you must continue to support Blu through the holidays and into early next year. Consumers will have clarity (either BD win, or long term stalemate) in the first half of next year. I have no doubt.

Great post Esox. I will continue to support Bd. As soon as the Denon player is released I'm all over it. I would like to see the BDA studios and CE's hit back with something, anything to counter the firesale. I really hope another BOGO is in the works. Software sales would skyrocket and crush any effect of the cheap players.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Esox50

For people supporting Blu, you must continue to support Blu through the holidays and into early next year. Consumers will have clarity (either BD win, or long term stalemate) in the first half of next year. I have no doubt.

I will absolutely not support HD DVD throughout 2008 either, barring some massive reversal of studio support.

I have over 75 Blu-ray discs now and will continue to buy the titles I want. I just wish I saw the hardware companies being as aggressive as Fox, Sony and Disney are with software.

[Spankey]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I will absolutely not support HD DVD throughout 2008 either, barring some massive reversal of studio support.

I have over 75 Blu-ray discs now and will continue to buy the titles I want. I just wish I saw the hardware companies being as aggressive as Fox, Sony and Disney are with software.

I agree. I would have loved to have seen hardware manufacturers counter the Toshiba sale this week with Ratatouille. The player sales would have been huge if there was a BD player to sell for $98 with the purchase of Ratatouille. Unfortunately, other than the first gen Samsung, I don't see a player that could have been sold at such a discount.

[atomik kinder]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I will absolutely not support HD DVD throughout 2008 either, barring some massive reversal of studio support.

I have over 75 Blu-ray discs now and will continue to buy the titles I want. I just wish I saw the hardware companies being as aggressive as Fox, Sony and Disney are with software.

I don't think any CE companies are willing to take a hit for BD. They will end up in the same boat as Toshiba, with them never making money on their players, which is why they chose to make BD players and not HD DVD players in the first place. Then in turn, they would end up screwing all the other BD player manufacturers too. They may cut their prices a bit, but don't expect them to take a loss.